A SAD TIME FOR VTES PLAYERS IN BRAZIL

Brazilian portuguese is not so well spread around the world. And no much brazilians are versed in english. So the worldwide community of VTES may not know the state of disarray the community of players in Brazil is at now e for some time. The thing get to the point where even new people interested in buy the new cards to begin to play, are afraid because the tumult created. You may ask what are happening and why? Well, things become so troublesome because the majority of brazilian players believed throughout the years that what matters was to play and have fun. So no one got preoccupied ro report bad behaviors to the VEKN (Vampire Elder Kindred Network - The World Wide Players Organization). They believed that time would resolve everything. This mentality allowed space to a small group to act the way they want, no matter how wrong it must be. Through machinations and background persuasion they even reached positions of power, as we could call it. One of them even was appointed as a VEKN Inner Circle. And you couldn't imagine the total disbelief most of the brazilians expressed when knowing such a person was apointed to the VEKN Board of Director. But how VEKN must know if no one reported nothing. And we are trying to correct that passive mentality of the brazilian players. But things got so worse in the South American Championchip and in it aftermath, that a total civil war are installed. We will try to make the brazilian VTES player comunity to survive e become better after all of this. All indeed is our fault. And we'll try to not commit the same mistakes again. Contingency Plan The Brazilian National Cordinator is trying to unite what he can of the disbanded player after they revolted against the actions and bad behaviors of the "smal group". Original text are posted on VTESBRASIL facebook page and Facebook group created by the National Coordinator to unite de players Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

That's absolutey true. Congrats for bring this to vekn.

> KzArashi wrote: > You may ask what are happening and why? > Indeed, but you don't explain anything. > KzArashi wrote: > So no one got preoccupied ro report bad behaviors to the VEKN (Vampire Elder Kindred Network - The World Wide Players Organization). They believed that time would resolve everything. > What are you talking about specifically? What "bad behaviors"? Please detail. > KzArashi wrote: > This mentality allowed space to a small group to act the way they want, no matter how wrong it must be. > Please detail. > KzArashi wrote: > But how VEKN must know if no one reported nothing. > Indeed. > KzArashi wrote: > But things got so worse in the South American Championchip and in it aftermath, that a total civil war are installed. > Please detail. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> KzArashi wrote: > You may ask what are happening and why? > I agree with Ankha. It would be very much easier for VEKN to act if someone sent in a formal complaint with details of what has happened. So please do. "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

> Ankha wrote: > > > KzArashi wrote: > > You may ask what are happening and why? > > > Indeed, but you don't explain anything. > I reported a resumed version to Mr. Ben Peal. He have contacted me through facebook. And believe The Brazilion National Coordinator is designated person now to proced. I made the first step beccouse some was affraid to talk here. And as a veteran they asked me for help. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

Most of this fights are happening south of the border, in São Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro. The majority of the players in the other states are aligned with the fun and joy that is the goal of the game.

Well seems this topic was created to talk about the lasts events in Brazilian Facebook groups and one of his causers Anderson Garcia, VEKN nickname Desso Alastor. A BCP member contact me over messenger and ask about that. Look to the conversation (I just correct some bad typos, English errors and explain better few points): BCP member What the everliving fuck is going on over there? Me Well for years, we have problems with one guy called Desso. This week the problem take a big proportion and our current CN start to take measures. BCP member What kind of problem? Me He argued with more than half of the organizers of Brazil, the way he imagines that the vtes might be better is divergent from that of the other members of the National Coordination, including I already talk about this behavior with Gines in a dinner during EC 2017 in Berlin. Moreover, he as creator and moderator of almost all groups in Facebook became totalitarian banning members and censoring posts against his politics. The National Coordinator tired of this type of practice decided to create new lists with new moderators. In addition, the players of São Paulo (where Desso is the prince) began a movement of separation creating parallel events and plating a new prince. Even the former National Coordinator Roberto Mautone is in this group. BCP member I'm also hearing stories about players being physically abusive/threatening at tournaments. As well as players being drunk or on drugs at tournaments. Me It occurred during the SAC / BR 2018 in São Paulo organized by Desso, two problems relating abuse, possible aggression and bullying. But in those cases, Desso was not to blame. About drinks, here in Brazil and by the photos I see from worldwide, it is common for people to play and drink during the events. During the SAC / BR a player who has a problem of alcoholism lost his head and verbally assaulted the judge and threatened him. In this case, it is an isolated case on account of a person who has problems with alcoholism. About drugs, here in Brazil there are many players who use marijuana and other drugs, but I in 23 years of VTES have never seen anyone using drugs during tournaments or even at the tables for fun. They leave the play area to use their stuff and then back to play. The complaint was related to the odor of marijuana that some players were during the SAC / BR. What caused this complaint was not the use of drugs itself since it is unfortunately common, but the place where the event was held because it had no windows or ventilation making the odors more perceptible. The second problem during the event was a case of bullying from one player to another. The bullying did not occur during the tournaments, but outside the tables, it was a very uncomfortable and annoying thing that caused even the VEKN player's banishment after complaints from people who were embarrassed by the case. BCP member Ok, so the issues there are overblown, except for one alcoholic guy who was a problem. Me These two cases were maximized due to Desso's bad reputation among the players community. With this, people who hate him increase, distort, and make up facts about the situation. I have much to criticize Desso and his conduct, but in these two cases that occurred, he was not to blame and was caught to be a Christ (I do not know if this metaphor works in English). BCP member But I'm hearing stories about altered Archon files. Me About this history of manipulation of archon is something recurrent according to the players of São Paulo, it seems that it has been common some results to be sent wrong favoring players closer to the prince. However, this is something that the SP players who have witnessed such conduct. END of CONVERSATION What I can talk about this person? Well I have known Desso for more than 10 years and I can say that for a long time he was my personal friend, but due to certain attitudes of him or simply divergence of ideas our friendship has been diminished and nowadays we are only colleagues. In the VTES part what problems I had with him and want to report to VEKN? Here is the list of those I remember for now: I've already had problems with the Desso regarding the sale of prizes that should be distributed free during the tournaments. I even complained to VEKN about it in the past. I have already been accused by him of organizing a coup against the former National Coordinator and his personal friend Roberto Mautone (who nowadays does not even talk to Desso because of a personal fight). He already had a problem with one of the princes of my city, Rio de Janeiro where at the time of choosing cities to hold the Brazilian Championship 2015 (or 2014, don’t remember now), in the last hour the result was manipulated giving victory to his city São Paulo. He had problems with several princes in Brazil doing some of them including giving up their positions. He was suspected of passing privileged information about the archon during SAC 2017 to his wife with potential to influence the results. In that same event, some players also reported that they heard him and other players from his city matching a possible partnership in the final. In addition, just as I had all these problems with these people (among others I do not remember now) several other people had the same kind of annoyance. Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer Prince of Rio de Janeiro Powerbase Rio de Janeiro

Hi Sydnelson, thank you for your testimony. For some reason, portuguese speaking countries are like that. Some people use VtES as a way of expanding their own weaknesses and insecurities. If people like Desso exist in a hobby that is heavily dependent on volunteers and community behavior, why does he have a following? Why doesn't the brazilian community as a whole set him aside? For evil to exist all there is needed is for good men to do nothing.

I don't have any concrete information on what is occuring in Brazil - only rumours and hear-say, so I will refrain from commenting on the current situation and complaints. I feel like I should give some generic advice though, because each of us may at some time be faced with conflicts and issues between players and groups. First: the causes of these issues exist pretty much everywhere, but (probably) due to cultural dispositions and lack of good conflict de-escalation skills they become more serious in some groups. In that sense I would urge everybody to keep a cool head and gather all available information before making any decisions - too often I've seen people jump to conclusions and make rash judgements based on incomplete or wrong information. This will often cause problems to worsen. On the other hand, you need to speak up (preferably with facts, not opinions!) before issues escalate out of hand! I've heard complaints against decisions made weeks or months after the fact, when the person could have easily presented his argument at the time and avoided the issue in the first place. This has gone so far as people complaining loudly months later about a judge not intervening to correct an error that was never presented to the judge in the first place (for example). And always remember that everybody is a hero in their own mind - hardly anybody ever sets out to be the bad guy, so if they are acting in a certain way it is most likely because they believe that to be the best course of action. If you want them to act differently you need to present your arguments factually and in a respectful manner - arguing and blocking dissenting views will usually only serve to antagonize people, even if the argument is solid. Here's the kicker: the same thing applies to you, so it is quite possible that others feel slighted by your actions and take you to be the villain of the situation. Finally: VEKN is a global player-led organization led in a democratic manner. In these conditions lack of information (at all levels) is probably the biggest cause of problems and conflicts, so please speak up! Thank you.

Anyone with half a brain and half a spine would agree with your wise (and experienced) words. But to put them in practice requires the other half of the spine. And there is the issue. Having the nice morals in words only, doesn't really solve anything. Back when I played VtES in Portugal, we had a Brazilian player in Lisbon for a year (doing a Post Doc in Law, I think). He told us tales of woe and misery in the community back home. Also tales of Brazil being banned from international sellers because of several people buying cards without paying. When we asked about what they were thinking on doing to solve this, he shrugged. It is too much trouble and responsibility over a game. This is not a job. It does not operate under employer / employee rules. I understood those words years later. A community is what its members in general want. That is why I asked those questions to Sydnelson. I talk almost everyday with players from all over the world. Culture is truly a factor here. Maybe the most important one. At the end of the day, this can only be solved by the Brazilian Community. Because here, it's all He Said - She Said. What is VEKN to do? Expel people? Nominate new Princes or a new NC, if he doesn't act?. That would probably create more attrition or at the very least just split the community and nobody would learn anything. Obi-Wan and Yoda could've killed the Emperor together. They went into hiding because the Galaxy itself gave Palpatine his power. The Galaxy should result the problem it allowed to create. From a certain point of view.

> skimflux wrote: > VEKN is a global player-led organization led in a democratic manner. In these conditions lack of information (at all levels) is probably the biggest cause of problems and conflicts, so please speak up! > I totally agree with you that the lack of information prevented the VEKN from take any action. And this our brazilian faut only. As, I mentioned on the first post of that thread. The excerpt follows: > KzArashi wrote: > Well, things become so troublesome because the majority of brazilian players believed throughout the years that what matters was to play and have fun. So no one got preoccupied ro report bad behaviors to the VEKN (Vampire Elder Kindred Network - The World Wide Players Organization). They believed that time would resolve everything. > > skimflux wrote: > On the other hand, you need to speak up (preferably with facts, not opinions!) before issues escalate out of hand! I've heard complaints against decisions made weeks or months after the fact, when the person could have easily presented his argument at the time and avoided the issue in the first place. This has gone so far as people complaining loudly months later about a judge not intervening to correct an error that was never presented to the judge in the first place (for example). > skimflux, people complained about the problems and actions with the person in question (Anderson Garcia, also know as: Desso Alastor), multiple times. Every time, people complained in the moment the facts and actions occurred. And as no solution or arrangements to take solutions were made, the complaining continued through time. And worse. Because when an action were take, that was only to benefit the person (the Prince that is the center of that mess, Desso Alastor) or his wife and close friends. Things have escalated through the years. > Sydnelson wrote: > ...he as creator and moderator of almost all groups in Facebook became totalitarian banning members and censoring posts against his politics. > Most of the times people tried to move any solution to the Prince of São Paulo actions, that and other peoples got censored or banned from the facebook groups. In the past, thought machinations, even some Prince have his register revoked. In some cases, former Prince resigned choosing to preserve his personal lifes from so much headaches interacting whit such people could cause. In some ways the São Paulo Prince (Desso Alastor) got to become close friend with some of the former National Coordinator. And Almost every one in the brazilian VTES community believe that decisions were influenced multiple times in the past. To believe or not to believe? Like Mr. Ben Peal you could reach as many player you can as ask him. That because much of them will not come here afraid of retaliation. As I said before, We are working to change some mentality to try not commit the same mistakes again. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

Well, while i’m no longer a prince I can help a lot explaining everything, even my small and unimportant drama in those facts. Brazil is a country of continental proportions. Most of our playgroups are isolated. Thousand of kilometers separate the regions (north, northeast, center-west, center-east, and south). When I joined VEKN as a prince of maceio, a small city in the northeast region, more than a decade ago, it was a great opportunity for players all around the globe to find me and my small and humble playgroup to play vtes, get out in the night and find new blood easier. After all more players = more fun. I was soon contacted by fabio sooner, one of the best VEKN national coordinators i’ve ever seen around, and got in contact with other princes of other regions. In that decade (around 2002, not sure), I noticed something strange around the discussions on the maillist. They were bickering and fighting. Soon I discovered that every year, there were two events (South américa championship – SAC and national championship) that are organized by the princes. At that time, the princes decided who would organize those events with the mediation of Fabio sooner. Why they fighted for it? Because we are a big country. If the SAC was organized in Rio, and the SAC in SP in the same year, everyone from center-west, South, north and northwest would have to travel thousands of miles to attend them. And to almost all of them, they could attend only one of them. The choice used to be make by the voting princes registered on VEKN. Each prince had a vote, and could vote on one proposal of a prince. Usually, every year, at least one of the events were always in the southeast region (SP/RJ), because they had the highest number of players. The voting was starting to become problematic, because some cities have more than one prince (São Paulo as a metropolis is composed of several sattelite cities), even some persons who registered as a prince on VEKN only to gain a vote – their playgroup were entirely on other cities). What all of this have to do with our situation with Anderson Garcia? I’ll get there soon. After some princes of distant regions like Manaus (north), maceió and fortaleza (northeast) start to become more active and travel to those events, the problem grew bigger. Sao Paulo was hosting too many events and the princes were more ressentful than ever. After electing Roberto Mautone as NC of Brazil, things seemed to be doing better at the time. I proposed a statute for voting princes, prohibiting the same city from being elected twice in a row, and even opened the discussion on making organizers giving a small discount on players from other regions (to help with travel costs). ]That proposal enraged Anderson Garcia, who organized events in São Paulo. Apparently those events were very importante for him. Why? I will explain soon. He contacted several of players from my playgroup privately on facebook Messenger, asking about me, how were the events organized by me, if there was something wrong. He asked many of them if they would like to become prince instead of me. All of them rebutted him, saying that I was a good prince, etc. But he discovered something truly horrifying about me, something dark, unforgivable and terrible. He discovered I organized casual events. In other terms, i didn’t reported nothing to VEKN, as there wasnt any tourneaments, only tables “for fun”. After obviously alienating the NC Roberto Mautone opinion about me, Anderson Garcia soon started questioning me asking in public why didn’t organized any events for years. As a tried to explain that we usually don’t play tourneaments, the NC started criticizing me openly and harshly, saying I “spoked too much and did nothing”. Also he asked me to resign as a prince, saying anyone else “could do better”. I becomed annoyed and retaliated, saying he didn’t had any transparency, didn’t tell or asked nothing what we think about the tourneament proxies discussion that was occurring on VEKN, and I asked when he was gonna tell us anything about his vote on the VEKN. Obviously Anderson Garcia was also in the discussion, on the facebook list of princes, going for personal attacks, calling me a “prince of shit”, saying “I didn’t make shit for the game”, and saying I was a “small penis prince and will always be”. When I noticed that I was emotionally crushed by the bullying, that was enough for me. I quitted and stopping organizing events. They both quickly find someone else to be prince of maceio (a friend of mine, vinicius correia). I ostracized myself from all the national groups and just kept playing with my friends again I would like a moment to thank all of princes and players who witnessed the discussion and PM me asking to stay, saying Anderson Garcia was not a good person, and I needed to fight him with support of them. Your support truly helped me feel better. Soon after that, Roberto Mautone, enticed by Anderson Garcia, culled all the princes from Brazil who did not organized sanctioned events on VEKN from vote (including vinicius correia and many opposition). Soon after, after losing a vote, he simply declared that HE would host the events and choose the áreas according how he saw better from everyone. Obviously with the help of Anderson Garcia. Afterall, the two of them lives in Sao Paulo. But why Anderson Garcia did all of that? Money and ego. It’s all about Money and ego. Anderson Garcia loves to be the center of attention, loves the prestige of being a IC member, loves to have a say in everything. In his events, stuff are expensive. Food is scarce and hard to obtain (except from him) and staying fees are expensive. In some of them, they were pretty isolated places, making impossible to make “day use” or “go out to buy food”. He bought several of the few sabbat war packs from the VEKN store at the time, “schusser & something” (SORRY, I DON’T REMEMBER THE NAME). Those kits were advertised strictly to be used as prizes for tourneaments, but Anderson Garcia just put them on the sale on the facebook group for expensive prices. Me and Sydnelson notified VEKN of that, who did nothing and just sayed that organizers can do anything they want with those kits. About lies? He lobbied hard against liberating proxies, even bullying me saying that I was lying just for saying that those things were being discussed at the VEKN, and that VEKN assured that proxies will never be a yes in any VTES tourneament. All against the facts. With the passage of years, he kept alienating and bullying opposing princes. Some obstinately resisted, some of them also resigned. When we saw Anderson Garcia announcement as a IC member, all the majority of players of brazil found that ridiculous and asked themselves “what the hell are the vekn thinking?”. After some years, something that I never thinked could happen happened. Roberto Mautone, a longtime friend of Anderson Garcie, broke up their friendship and created a new “free” facebook group. Why free? Because during years on the Anderson Garcia group, any critic of him was banned and had his comments deleted. Why he broke up with him? I don’t know, but I think it had something to do when Anderson Garcia was trying to monopolize the anthologies kits. How can I prove it? He SUGGESTED a player who was trying to collectively kickstart several kits for his city that “the kits will only arrive if he authorized it”. That player dennounced this on the facebook group, and he was promptly banned. That was the last straw for almost everyone on brazil. Finally, kaze is correct. If we dont make our voice here, everyone overseas will think Anderson Garcia is the greatest organizer alive. Afterall, he have several sanctioned events. And I’m here, speaking this, not because I have a grudge against him, but because I think you guys deserve to know why almost everyone on our country despise him. All of those things were public and can be confirmed by sydnelson and other princes and important players. Just ask them. As a final message, I would like to thank all efforts being made by VEKN on all those years. You guys are making great. But yes, kaze is correct. This is a sad time for VTES in brazil. I hope you all could forgive me for my english mistakes. Alexandre Costa. I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

> Brum wrote: > Hi Sydnelson, > > thank you for your testimony. > For some reason, portuguese speaking countries are like that. > Some people use VtES as a way of expanding their own weaknesses and insecurities. > > If people like Desso exist in a hobby that is heavily dependent on volunteers and community behavior, why does he have a following? > Why doesn't the brazilian community as a whole set him aside? > > For evil to exist all there is needed is for good men to do nothing. > Because he has always tried to show a good face to all players, always trying to be warm and friendly most of the time. And it's like I said, he really likes the game and has good ideas. Just the way he wants to apply and impose ideas that are bad. And he does not like to be annoyed, then this kind person becomes bad in my opinion. And the Brazilian community is finally putting it aside. I hope the controversy and fights cease from now on. Only time will tell. Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer Prince of Rio de Janeiro Powerbase Rio de Janeiro

At last! I thought this would never happen. For years I listen to a lot of complains about his tirany and bad decisions, and I always told that we should do somethind about it. What ocurred in 2018' SAC - Sydnelson already wrote here - was something that made me really angry, because a guy bullyed a woman and, as a woman, I couldn't feel any different. In my opinion, Anderson did what he had to do, what was the right thing to do, but it was an exception. Anyway, we can't just close our eyes forever. If the majority of players here in Brazil need to speak... let them do it =]

Greetings everyone. Althought this is the first time posting something here, I'm an active player since 2008 and always keep an eye here for updates, discussions and everything else. I would like to step out the shadows and make some considerations regarding this topic. I'll try to make that this comment is short and straight to the point and to not mention subjects already exposed on past comments. When I first heard about Desso(Anderson Garcia), he was only a regular player. A player known to have a reputation: problematic, who often got involved in table fights (discussions), always having problems with the Prince. Back then, I never had the chance to meet him or talk to him. So, why should I judge a book from it's cover? I'd got to know him and get my own conclusions. And so I did. When he became Prince of São Paulo, if memory serves me well, his propposal was to bring together not only 'his' city, but the Brazil as well as a big and united playgroup. His debut as an organizer was hosting a National Campionship (which I won with a DoC deck ). The value charged to participate the event was very expensive, the place chosen to host the event was in the middle of nowhere, with no cel phone/internet signal, very difficult to get and to leave (no underground train, no bus, available only by car) plus travel tickets, because I'm from Rio de Janeiro. The meals were precarious and expensive (again!). A total disaster. But ok, that was his first event, he'll learn, the next one will be a better one. So that was everybody's expectations. His second big event, was both a NC (National championship) AND a SAC (South American CHampionship) and took place in the following year. Again, all items mentioned in the previous event happened again (save the meals, they were very good. Know why? Because it wasn't Desso's responsability this time. Someone capable was). Make mistakes is inherent to human nature. I mean, one time is ok, but, a second time is stupidity. Or an act in bad faith ?! And here I'm gonna 'make a parentheses' about some of his attitudes along the years. 1- Desso used a political maneuver (a sordid one) to became host again. The vote to decide which city would host the events was opened and it's deadline was December 31th, midnight. Yes, Reveillon. He was losing by 1 vote and, when it was one hour (or less) for the deadline, he managed to call one Prince who didn't vote, to vote for him. So, it was a tie and in the end, he won. 2- After the game stop being published, he started to manipulate the card market at a national level (erasing both posts and comments, saying that what he was doing was wrong), selling cards at extortionate prices for new players. I know, we're all capitalists, he wasn't forcing people to buy, but, maybe (probable, actually), he was coercing. 3- When Belo Horizonte (the third big playgroup of the Southeast region) was hosting a big event, he created such a big mess about an organizer's mistakes, which resulted on the city's temporary suspension of hosting events and the former Prince 'resignation', out of pure discontent. To take note: it was the first time organizing an event for that Prince and the mistakes commited weren't that serious to earn such punishment. I was there, I saw. Everybody saw and knew. But he elevated the problems so high that all unfolded the way it did. Let's not forget that he commited greivious and bigger mistakes when he hosted and, despite all complaints at both times, nothing happened to him. I'm not mentioning this because it's againt the rules. I just want you guys to know what kind of character he have. A man who's capable of doing dirty little (or big) things to feed his ego with no concern if he's harming other people. Not to mention the playgroup on a national level. All that said, you must be thinking: where the hell was the NC (National coordenator) that he saw all this and did nothing? Well, the NC was Roberto Mautone (he started on 2014). Then, he WAS one of Desso's closest friend. I can't describe him differently: fair, friendly, clever (I mean, intelligent and smart), available and impartial. Impartial to all that didn't included Desso as a Prince. Desso managed to, little be little, take advantage of that friendship all those years, manipulating even Roberto (my personal opinion about this, is that Roberto, deep inside, knew what was going on, but, still nourishing the friendship, kinda 'allowed' him...) to help with all his schemes. One more proof that Desso acted in bad faith, was the episode (and it became public, everybody knows) when he accessed Roberto's Mesenger and read his private conversations with other people. Knowing the contents of those conversations, he started retaliations, fights in many face lists which unfolded in another scandal envolving him. Guys, I'm sorry if this comment got too big, I tried my best to be concise, and yet, tell the most details i could remember. I hope it helps to show the true face of a person that fiercily believes that he's living in a Jyhad, that because he's a "prince", he actually have the power of one. Worst, that he's above others. Att, Thiago Sousa

I was willing to make a big post to do my testimony, but Alexandre said a lot what I would want to say. When you have a problem with everyone else, the problem actually is you. That's Desso. I can corroborate most of what Alexandre said because all is known through the community and I have suffered myself my share of bullying and retaliation for stand against some policies. Bottomline what I can say is: Desso does not represent the will of the majority of the community and it is disappointing that he is in such a high position at the vekn. Archbishop of Vitória

So, I am total outsider to this situation. But, I'm reading through all these posts, and all I see are accusations coming from one side, and I'm unsure anything I read constitutes a real violation of being a Prince (there may be real violations, I just don't know if they occurred). It would behoove the aggrieved parties if the following was done: 1. Review the responsibilities of being a Prince 2. Ensure that the accused person did in fact violate their responsibilities as a Prince 3. Provide proof that this violation occurred. Notice how number 3 says "proof." So far, this thread is all accusations without proof. Again, I am a total outsider and am not involved with the VEKN at all. But, if the aggrieved parties want action taken against a person who has violated the responsibilities as Prince, the best course of action is to prove a violation occurred with evidence. If there are no violations that can be proven, well...sometimes people are just jerks and there's nothing that can be done.

First of all, this post is going to be used or will have any purpose? If that post have a purpose, what if this ? Finally what kind of proof does VEKN accept? Daniel Abreu VEKN ID - #6010149 "Ab auditione mala non timebit"

> DanielScooby wrote: > First of all, > > this post is going to be used or will have any purpose? > > If that post have a purpose, what if this ? > > Finally what kind of proof does VEKN accept? > No purpose at all. This is a public discussion forum. I'm just a stranger reading a bunch of accusations about somebody, without the accused person responding. I'm giving my opinion on how to resolve the situation.

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > So, I am total outsider to this situation. But, I'm reading through all these posts, and all I see are accusations coming from one side, and I'm unsure anything I read constitutes a real violation of being a Prince (there may be real violations, I just don't know if they occurred). It would behoove the aggrieved parties if the following was done: > > 1. Review the responsibilities of being a Prince > 2. Ensure that the accused person did in fact violate their responsibilities as a Prince > 3. Provide proof that this violation occurred. > > Notice how number 3 says "proof." So far, this thread is all accusations without proof. Again, I am a total outsider and am not involved with the VEKN at all. But, if the aggrieved parties want action taken against a person who has violated the responsibilities as Prince, the best course of action is to prove a violation occurred with evidence. > > If there are no violations that can be proven, well...sometimes people are just jerks and there's nothing that can be done. > Know the "Me Too movement" that are changing the way things work in Hollywood? Well if you ask the majority of victims of sexual harassment and assault: why they waited so much to talk? -You would get the same from almost every one. That no one would believe, no one would listen. Even more. Most of the aggressors always coerced the victims saying that they will never proff anithing. So no one would believe and thousand of women sufered for years becouse no one would listem to his testimonials. I'm not be aggressive toward you. I'm only making a clarification. What people is having courage to came here and say, is not accusations. People are given his testimonials. I don't know how things work all around the world. But here in Brazil testimonials are treated as proff on legal actions. Testimonials wich facts are corroborated from multiple soucers and other testimonials are pivotal on legal prosecutions. The majority of "Corrupt Politics" are being condemned here in Brazil, based on multiple testimonials. So in the end is VEKN decision to listen or not. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

> KzArashi wrote: > Know the "Me Too movement" that are changing the way things work in Hollywood? > You mean the movement that resulted in proven sexual misconduct among Hollywood elites? Yes, I've heard of it. > Well if you ask the majority of victims of sexual harassment and assault: why they waited so much to talk? -You would get the same from almost every one. That no one would believe, no one would listen. > Yes, that's a common behavior among all victims of sexual crimes. Frankly, to compare the bullying experienced as a result of one person acting like a jerk among the VTES tournament scene in Brazil, as outlined in this thread, to trauma one experiences during a sexual assault is, in my opinion, not the best analogy. > Even more. Most of the aggressors always coerced the victims saying that they will never proff anithing. So no one would believe and thousand of women sufered for years becouse no one would listem to his testimonials. > Again, that's in the context of sexual assault. Which has nothing to do with anything I read in this thread that has happened. > [bold]I'm not be aggressive toward you. > > I'm only making a clarification. What people is having courage to came here and say, is not accusations. People are given his testimonials. > Okay. What's being given is one side of the story. All I am saying is, if you want action taken against this Prince, it's likely in your best interest to find evidence that the person was not meeting the responsibilities of being a Prince. This is likely the best thing you can do. > I don't know how things work all around the world. But here in Brazil testimonials are treated as proff on legal actions. Testimonials wich facts are corroborated from multiple soucers and other testimonials are pivotal on legal prosecutions. > You're saying these testimonials contain "facts." I'm sorry, but I just don't see facts in this thread. I see unproven accusations. They may well be true, but there's no way for anybody to know for sure. > The majority of "Corrupt Politics" are being condemned here in Brazil, based on multiple testimonials. > Again, you are comparing politics of a country with the VTES tournament scene in Brazil. Please know these analogies are not helping your case, and they're distracting from the real issue.

Hey there. I'm a player from SP too and I have prepared a letter to send to Ginés (or any other high up that knows Portuguese) about almost everything and how I personally feel about all of this. Desso actually did a text awnsering Elzo about a Report talking about the last SAC and NAC and the whole text is full of the use of sarcasm, irony and personal attacks, a behavior that I, Gabriel Manari, can't accept as coming from a Inner Circle Member, even worst from our Organized Play Coordinator. After all this fight me and some friends joined up forces to make parallel tournaments in São Paulo. Desso used his power as IC to DELETE our event from the VEKN Calendar and reuploaded it with HIM as creator/organizer. He also deleted our posts from VTES Facebook groups, saying that HE was now the Peace Bringer, that HE was making people unite and play together again. In this last months I ended up knowing a lot about what he did and saw a lot happen and, as a VTES player I say: I can't stand having this kind of person as a IC or OPC. He is NOT helping the game, he is NOT helping the comunity and he is NOT bringing any good to the table. If he did in the past is not for me to judge, I know what I see now and what I see now digusts me. __________________________________________ Hello, Ginés. My name is Gabriel Manari, my VEKN ID is #7060069 and I want to ask you to take some action or give atention to what is happening in São Paulo right now. After some fights and turbulations between players here in São Paulo we ended up with a 1-Year Suspension for Elzo Benzaquen, who didn't have a right to defend himself or argument against the punishment. So Elzo made a text reporting his opinion on the matter and his point of view of everything in a group. So, Desso Alastor, our Prince, made a text in response. In this text he attacks Elzo in a personal manner, calling him a "playboy" and saying he is just a "rich boy" that's lying and just want to incite and create chaos. He even calls Elzo a NERD! It's a card game, everybody is considered a nerd! He doesn't try to counter-argument, or to talk or to be a responsible leadership in any moment, just to create a scenario of a fight and offend someone that is not even in the same group (he had been banned from said group just minutes before the post). I have the whole text saved in text and in jpg so I can show you and any other member from VEKN. And I can translate it if you need it. The text is just below so you can read and translate via Google Translator by yourself if you think it's necessary. There are accusations dating from long ago against Desso and I have even witnessed when he, in behalf of or National Coordinator, changed the rules for the Continental Tournament, making it an open tournament like everyone else (disrespecting every player that struggled to get classified for it). I'm really looking foward to hear from you or someone about this sad and toxic scenario that our leadership ended up cooking. ___________ Desso Alastor Administrador · 1 h Ola cainitas, bem vindos ao “live action VTES Brasil”, hoje me enviaram essa carta, livro, texto... Enfim, sei la como devo considerar, afinal, tem prefácio e capítulos (Risos). . Vou responder cada tópico, para facilitar quando for parte do Elzo, colocarei antes da continuidade do texto o nome dele, na minha resposta o meu nome. Continuando... . (Elzo)V Report Sac 2018. - TEXTÃO. ////// Prefácio: Caros amigos, como todo Report devemos dar nosso ponto de vista, o que relatarei aqui é, absolutamente, o meu ponto de vista e minha narrativa de fatos, alguns de amplo conhecimento, outros nem tanto. NÃO PODEREI abordar fatos externos ao torneio, como a Treta do Mota e da CENSURADO, ou da treta da GUGA e do Mota. Estes fatos ainda estão sendo apurados, de forma “idônea” pela, até este momento, CN nacional, a qual, aparentemente se auto impôs o dever de solucionar problemas extrajogo. > (Desso)V Acima ele acusa de “treta do Mota e da Censurado (censurado é maneira que ele chama a jogadora Fabiana Gomes Louro). Mas a treta não é do Mota, Mota é apenas o seu amigo que ele manda e desmanda, Mota inclusive que chegou a fazer cenas de semelhança ao SAC na casa do próprio Elzo, contra a esposa do mesmo em um constructed mensal. Elzo na ocasião como Arbitro mandou Mota embora do local, passado alguns dias, já estavam amigos novamente. Bom, eles que são ricos que se entendam... > (Elzo)V Por último, deixo claro que não reconheço nenhuma autoridade punitiva superior a Justiça Federal Brasileira. (Orientação de meu departamento legal, que solicita algumas edições abaixo). > (Desso)V Nesse momento ele começa a querer se gabar de ser uma pessoa influente pois, o seu departamento legal deu instruções para o mesmo. O cara é envolvido, cuidado. A seguir o primeiro capitulo de sua historinha, vamos la pessoal, ele quer aparecer, darei essa oportunidade... . > (Elzo)V Capitulo 1 – O ínicio: Muitos sabem que por muitos anos não me dei bem com o atual Príncipe de SP o sr. DESSO, no entanto muitos anos fui amigo de sua atual companheira a srta. FERNANDA. Escrevo este fato relevante, pois, antes do SAC de 2016 fui procurado pelo Sr. E Srta supracitados para ir participar do torneio, num clima de “vamos fazer as pazes”. Nunca fui de fugir de confusão, mas não me furto nunca a dar o privilégio da dúvida a alguma pessoa. > (Desso)V Vamos la, quem me conhece sabe que eu NUNCA convidaria o Elzo para um legado de paz, o que eu fiz foi algo muito mais simples, Elzo havia arrumado intriga com seu play group de 4fun, pessoas do Dominio SP que ele “Faz” parte (Mas por traz só fala merda dos integrantes), Chegou no evento do principado, jogou de maneira comportada e no final realmente me chamou para conversar e eu disse algo parecido com isso: Elzo tudo bem você jogar, eu não guardo magoas do passado, da minha parte sem problemas, sera bem recebido, só peço para que não cause no VTES cenas como fez no grupo de 4 fun e no grupo que fazia parte de live action o SP By Nigth, onde foi praticamente expulso por “N” motivos que de fato eu não tenho nada haver, mas aqui no VTES as coisas estão de boa e se quiser jogar sera bem vindo. Foi apenas esse o desenrolar da conversa. . > (Elzo) V Pois bem, desde o SAC 2016 voltei a jogar ativamente no cenário Paulista, indo na maioria dos torneios (de premiação precária, mas perdoável dada a situação do jogo), cedendo meu salão de festas, realizando torneios como T.O. nas ausências do dito Príncipe e, inclusive, trazendo os famigerados KITS Berlin em minha mala para o Principado de SP e alguns poucos jogadores privilegiados de serem amigos do Sr. DESSO. > (Desso) V Lamentável tudo isso, ainda bem que todo tramite do kit Berlim existe até hoje no grupo VTES SP (Posso mandar prints), ninguém teve privilégios, foi colocado as claras o valor, Elzo disse que traria de boa, e assim foi feito para todos do play group de SP que quisessem participar da compra. Jogadores como Fran Cisco, Alan Winther, Daniel Monteiro, Mauro Alves Dias... Todos podem confirmar se eu favoreci alguém no sistema de compra dos kits. . > (Elzo)V Faço aqui um comentário: durante toda a confusão dos KIT Berlin meu pai estava internado no Hospital Santa Luzia e eu com ele, dito isso, não tive acesso a nenhuma informação exceto as que me foram repassadas pelo Sr. DESSO. Gerando um preconceito que já fiz questão de me desculpar com o Sr. Mateus. – Ressalto que 80% das informações que eram me passadas eram conspiratórias ou se provaram inverídicas. > (Desso)V Sobre o Kit Berlim, Obviamente agora é a hora dele inventar trocentos fatos para criar mais situações infundadas. . > (Elzo)V A situação prossegue até 2017 SAC – CEARÁ. Não entrarei nos detalhes deste SAC. Quando questionado ao próximo SAC o Sr. DESSO afirmou que seria realizado em SP, que já estava tudo certo com o CN Nacional e que iam oficializar em alguns dias e ele iria fazer um evento top! Com tudo que havia criticado de Fortaleza sendo sanado. Nesse momento foi solicitada minha ajuda, a qual prontamente ofereci. > (Desso)V Realmente o Elzo esta criativo, um verdadeiro contador de histórias... Nada do que ele diz é verdade, e se fosse, não faz sentido, sendo que, não existiram outras candidaturas fora a de SP para o SAC e BR 2018. Ou seja, não teve disputa, o que desmistifica a indireta do Elzo que o evento já estava comprado para SP. Quanto a ajuda acho que os fatos mostram que além de não ajudar, esta querendo sim prejudicar. Agora vamos para o capitulo 2 do seu livrinho... . > (Elzo)V Capitulo 2 – O Alerta do Ancião. Com o SAC se aproximando mês a mês foi definido um calendário de diversos torneios, para atrair mais jogadores e animar a galera. Em um desses torneios o Sr. DESSO me propôs que eu fizesse um contato com o Pascek para apaziguar a situação entre eles, a qual desconhecia. Ao me sentar em uma mesa de bar com o Pascek, alguém que eu nutro respeito e amizade ele me disse: “Não há possibilidade e um dia você entenderá o porquê”. Isso me levantou uma dúvida, por que alguém que já foi o melhor amigo do DESSO hoje nem abre possibilidade para um diálogo? > (Desso)V Nunca eu iria propor algo desse tipo com Elzo, mesmo porque eu sei onde o Pascek mora, tenho toda família dele como amigo no meu facebook, Pai, Mãe, Irmão, Primos... Acho que o Elzo seria a ultima pessoa que eu pediria tal fato. Más na sua situação de desespero eu posso entender mais esse capitulo. . (ELZO)V Capitulo 3- O Pré-SAC. Janeiro de 2018, o playgroup de SP estava unido, jogos toda a semana, 4 novos jogadores indo a todos os torneios, no entanto, NADA sobre o SAC. Nesse momento para “melhorar a situação”, devido a um bate-boca entre 2 jogadores no grupo de Whatsapp do VTES-SP, o Sr. Desso, vê uma oportunidade de “dividir e conquistar”, e cria dois grupos para separar a galera do VTES-SP. Me demorou muito para repara esse engodo, mas com a rixa entre os dois grupos todas as reclamações sobre o SAC silenciaram. > (Desso)V Agora ele acusa uma divisão no grupo de Wathsap, realmente eu fiz isso, um grupo que era para ser legal, devido as situações de bulling criadas por Elzo e seus seguidores contra a jogadora Fabiana. (Isso Fabiana se quiser, pode explicar melhor), Fiz o papel de colocar Fabiana como moderadora de um grupo e elzo do outro, assim o stress possivelmente acabaria, o que infelizmente não aconteceu, pois se as coisas não são do jeito que ele pensa, Elzo fica indignado e tenta comprar a tudo e todos, achando que pessoas são compráveis. Mas eu nunca me vendi e não será agora, e independente de quem seja, nunca compactuarei com situações de bulling. . > (Elzo)V Fevereiro de 2018. Já as vésperas do evento, NADA organizado, NADA divulgado, NADA informado, os torneios rolando, mas nenhuma palavra sobre o SAC. Março de 2018: Foi-me solicitado que alugasse o Salão de eventos de meu prédio (com ar-condicionado, cozinha suporte banheiros com limpeza e capacidade para 40 pessoas) para organizar o SAC. Prontamente realizei a dita reserva e me foi informado que: “A Galera de fora não quer ficar confinada então cada um que se vire, a CENSURADA vai ser responsável pela hospedagem e “ciceroneamento” da galera de fora.” Abril de 2018: recebo uma mensagem de Whatsapp: “Desmarca o seu salão, vamos fazer o evento num teatro fudido no centro de São Paulo, vai acomodar melhor a galera e vai ser animal pelo clima”. > (Desso)V Sim parte é verdade, eu pedi para que ele disponibilizasse o local do condomínio dele para o evento, Fabiana arrumou outro local em um condomínio no centro, mas por questões de logística, após as reservas já feitas (Mas não divulgadas), resolvi alugar um único espaço para todos os eventos, assim eu penso que facilitaria para os jogadores de fora, chegarem sempre no mesmo local. Entrei posteriormente em contato com Elzo e Fabi e pedi desculpas, expliquei o motivo e os mesmos entenderam e disseram: - Sem problemas. . > (Elzo)V Maio de 2018: Grupo de SP dividido, ZERO informações para nós sobre o SAC, galera irritada uma com a outra, desavenças e brigas extrajogo, mas todos num esforço coletivo para fazer o SAC virar: “Precisa de alguma ajuda? Alguém de fora precisa de algo? ”, Resposta: “Não, está tudo de boa. ”, “Cara pode ficar 2 em casa, tem gente que também disponibiliza o apto...”, “Não está tudo de boa”. > (Desso)V Sim galera irritada, tudo devido as brigas infundadas do Elzo no grupo de wathzap. Na sequência mais um capitulo do livreto... . > (Elzo)V Capítulo 4 - SAC 2018 – A papagaiada: Local: UM LIXO um teatro no centro sem limpeza alguma, sem ventilação, com pouca ou sem iluminação, onde, graças a sorte, ninguém caiu em nenhum dos buracos//escadas e não tiveram mais pessoas. > (Desso)V Todos os dias após o evento o teatro foi limpo pelos funcionários do local, Banheiros haviam 4, todos os dias limpos ao final do dia, ninguém caiu em buracos porque eram escadas e não buracos. . > (Elzo)V Arbitragem: Excelente do Lincoln, mas como já ouvi de um sábio, arbitragem boa é requerimento! Ademais parabéns ao Fran e ao Sid pelo auxílio prestado em momentos de dúvida. > (Desso)V Vejam como ele tenta desmerecer as pessoas, agora vangloria o Fran Cisco e o Sid para tentar atrair mais pessoas para sua festinha particular... . > (Elzo)V Jogo: LCQ – Ridículo! Na hora de divulgarem os finalistas o ORGANIZADOR DO TORNEIO adulterou o Archon para entrar na final como o quinto jogador, tirando o DELMAR – Campeão do LCQ, da final de forma “Malandramente um erro”. Mesas editadas a bel prazer, VPS alterados, e me pergunto a quanto tempo isso acontecia e SP e não havíamos dado conta? DETALHE ISSO FOI VISLUMBRADO POR TODOS INCLUSIVE O CN! 38 minutos de espera em uma mesa devido ao atraso de um jogador. (Anotem esse precedente). > (Desso)V Bom, outra teoria da conspiração, ainda bem que em todos os dias eu convidei o jogador e organizador Renato Borges a participar dos sorteios e divisão das mesas, se teve alguém querendo a todo momento ver o Archon era o Elzo e imediatamente interceptei, dizendo que ele não era o responsável, para se conter e jogar o torneio. . > (Elzo)V BR – Nível médio, mas tivemos que toda rodada parar e auditoriar o Archon devido ao ocorrido no último dia. NO ENTANTO, no início do R3 a surpresa: O ORGANIZADOR DO TORNEIO declara que por decisão da organização do torneio o SAC do dia seguinte (a menos de 12 horas do evento), seria um torneio aberto, e ninguém precisaria estar classificado. Impressionante foi ver a vibração dos amigos do ORGANIZADOR DO TORNEIO, com essa notícia, muitos, que mesmo tendo jogado 7 ou mais classificatórios não tiveram a qualidade de se classificar, agora, estavam classificados. > (Desso)V Impressionante a sagacidade desse texto acima, Após o anuncio, a maioria dos jogadores que foram ao SAC que não tinham vaga foram BANCADOS pelo próprio Elzo, novamente ele bateu no peito e disse: Pode chamar o pessoal que eu pago quem não tiver dinheiro, caso de alguns jogadores que não tinham vaga, quanto aos amigos meus, realmente ele não tem ideia do que é ter amigos na vida, alguém que compra pessoas nunca vai saber, a relação que ele tem de amizade certamente é muiiito diferente da minha. Nunca tive de pagar uma bala para alguém puxar meu saco, issa é a realidade. . > (Elzo)V SAC – Pior nível de tornei intercontinental que joguei. Havia jogador se influenciando para morrer e dar VP ao amiguinho. Jogador que sentou em mesa e disse, meu objetivo é não deixar X fazer VP. NÃO FOI PERMITIDO AUDITORIAR O ARCHON. > (Desso)V Engraçado que tudo isso ele fala agora, após ver que eu não seria contra o seu banimento da VEKN, de repente todas as juras de amor foram esquecidas (Risos) > (Elzo)V 40+ graus dentro de um teatro fechado sem janelas. Ventiladores acompanhavam os organizadores mesa a mesa. > (Desso)V Agora ele virou a garota do tempo? Cara você é mito mesmo, me perdoe se não estava adequado para vossa senhoria o clímax do teatro. Eu errei admito. > (Elzo)V Breaks arbitrários para almoço, um quando estou com fome, outro para quando meu amigo está com fome. Jogador sofrendo DQ por atrasar 10 minutos para chegar a mesa (E COM O T.O. AVISADO). Vitória do Molina – sendo acusado pela REPRESENTANTE DA CN de caixote na final. > (Desso)V As pessoas tiveram direito de comer, o DQ foi autorizado pelo mesmo envolvido no telefone, Molina nunca foi acusado, sabemos da sua intenção em tentar comprar o pessoal de Guarulhos, isso ninguém tem duvidas Elzo, Mas pode perguntar para os próprios jogadores de Guarulhos se um dia eles foram mal recebidos nos torneios ou até mesmo em minha casa, onde já participaram de vários 4 funs, não viaja na historinha, agora esta tentando envolver pessoas que não tem problema algum com a organização e sempre jogaram de forma limpa os torneios. Alias, reparei nesse capitulo do livreto que esta uma verdadeira mãe para as pessoas, realmente você é de uma índole impecável, exemplo a ser seguido. . > (Elzo)V RECLAMAÇÃO DA ORGANIZAÇÃO QUE OS BANHEIROS ESTAVAM SUJOS, MAS EM NENHUM DOS 3 DIAS SE PREOCUPARAM EM LIMPA-LOS! > (Desso)V Na próxima vez vou preparar uma hidro, toalhas brancas e sabonete liquido fica tranquilo. Caramba, mais um capitulo, sou terrível mesmo... . > (Elzo)V Capítulo 5 – Pós SAC – A Máscara caiu.. Declaração de regras autoritárias e imposições descabidas. Caça às bruxas contra os desafetos, proteção em baixo da aza do amigo. Tentativa de Banir 2 # de VEKN de jogadores. Um dos que voz escreve. Todo mundo de saco cheio de papagaiada. Não dá mais, não precisamos, nem nunca precisaremos. A Cruzada está lançada São Paulo está tomada! Agora é jogo limpo, carta na mesa, premiação digna, comida, e espaço decente, ética, respeito ao playgroup e, principalmente, aqueles que vem nos prestigiar. > (Desso)V Vai la "Nerdão", cruza com quem você quiser, prepara os bolsos, ta saindo caro a compra de lugares, mas dinheiro nunca sera o problema, certo? > (Elzo)V Gastar R$3000,00 + para fazer um evento desses, com essa qualidade? Essa foi a mentira mais deslavada que já li nos últimos tempos. > (Desso)V Mentira é tudo que escreveu, eu tenho contratos e provas assinadas, se não gostou, é uma pena, mas já era esperado, pois ainda tenho todas as suas criticas ao ultimo Europeu, se nem Berlim te agradou, imagina o beco de SP. . > (Elzo)V São Paulo está sendo representado por uma figura que se apega ao pequeno poder, e tenta validar suas ações na máxima facínora. A Organização Nacional, representada em São Paulo pela companheira do citado, se furta ou compactua à sede de atenção e poder de alguém que tenta sanar suas frustações pessoais no passatempo de muitos. > (Desso)V Poder? Frustações? Não é o que ao longo de meses estamos vendo você fazer, até o celular do Sidynelson pegou em uma balada para atacar a jogadora Fabiana, você é o gerador desse caos, nós da organização apenas não compactuaremos com tudo isso. . > (Elzo)V Muitos já reclamaram e brigaram, mas em algum momento, por recursos, ou falta de apoio desistiram. Não mais, não me faltarão recursos para resolver de uma vez esse problema que assola nosso jogo. Um problema intrínseco que é a falta de ética, de moral e respeito ao próximo, enraizadas no âmago de poucas pessoas. Não mais! > (Desso)V Ai pai, para... . FIM Reviews about Gabriel: "Not him again!" - A Player "I hate you and every deck you play with." - My Predator "10/10" - IGN "Don't cut/shuffle my deck." - My Prey "Good Lord, not on the same table as him!" - My Crosstable VEKN ID #7060069

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > > > DanielScooby wrote: > > First of all, > > > > this post is going to be used or will have any purpose? > > > > If that post have a purpose, what if this ? > > > > Finally what kind of proof does VEKN accept? > > > No purpose at all. This is a public discussion forum. I'm just a stranger reading a bunch of accusations about somebody, without the accused person responding. I'm giving my opinion on how to resolve the situation. > The point is, as Kaze opened the topic, is letting the VEKN know that brazilian community is bleeding with festering wounds because of a VEKN IC member bad behavior. So the point is they could then take whatever measures they think are necessary. I suggest you go back and re-read the first post. About your questions about proof: You don't need a strictly proof like a recorded movie to condemn someone. You need to convince the judge that he is guilty, no more no less. The DCI from Magic the gathering is in a point of view light years beyond the VEKN, who is very informal and have very blank rules about behavior. First, in the DCI judges are always certified by others judges. No one becomes a level 4 judge, without approval of all level 5 judges, per example. Or even a level 1 judge without approval and test from a level 2 judge. Second, when someone is dennounced for bad behavior like this, a judge or more can form a committee and start a formal procedure called an INVESTIGATION. Asking questions, hearing people, a committe do NOT need to see a player cheating to conclude he cheated, neither have a recording of the play. Testimonials are the most important source of proof in those situations, specially in cases of bullying as described. If your son told you he is being bullied at the shool, will you ask proof before going to school speak with the teachers? Suggesting everything spoked here is the same as nothing because "witness are not proof" and desqualifying all testimonies given here is just a poor "let's put a hot towel over this shit and move on", is JUST the type of opinion on the rapes cases. And in this case, as a victim, I found that suggestion even offensive. Did you read my testimony? Did you care or is interested about investigating before saying ANYTHING about proof and "nothing can be done"? Since when we victims are obliged to find proof to start an investigation? Ask the following persons about the facts I've participate that were witnesses of the fact: Sergio Nascimento, former prince of vitoria daniel malk, former prince of BH márcio pinheiro, national coordinator Sydnelson, one of the oldest VEKN collaborators and former prince of Rio Juliano, former prince As I am losing my time now explaining to you the situation, people are voting right now with the national coordinator to send a letter to the chairmain of VEKN. It's about 40 votes against 9. I'm pretty sure everyone has something to speak. And if you are worried about his defense, I'm pretty sure VEKN wont touch him before hearing him first. So far, no problems. I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

It's a sad time for brazilian vtes indeed, but it's a necessary one! My name is Itamar Jr, former prince of Rio de Janeiro - Brazil since 1996. I have nothing to say about recent events because I quit playing ranked V:EKN events in the moment Desso gote a role bigger than a prince role in the V:EKN. I've got personal offended by him when he said that there wasn't any honest player in Rio de Janeiro. While he was a prince, I could simple ignore his tournaments, but as an active part of V:EKN, he can put his fingers (and does that!) in everything related to ranked vtes in Brazil. So I'm out of it! Since I can't take part in a game wich has someone like him as a coordinator in any level, I've put my VTES history on hold until his leave, witch I've always believed that would happen sonner or later. I didn't see any reason to fill out an official complain here before, or even tried to gather any proof of his behaviour simple because, despite loving tournaments, I can live only playing 4fun tables with small groups and at that moment, only a few players had any open complaints about him. But it seems that the tables had turned, finally! It's really sad, and the subject of the post is very appropriate, because he had the resources and the knowledge to take the brazillian VTES scene to a higher level, but he choose to use them for his own personal agenda, what led us to this exact moment. Itamar G. Jr. Former Prince of Rio de Janeiro - Brazil 2003 V:TES National Champion 2004 V:TES Sul American Champion

> Charles_Bronson wrote: > Suggesting everything spoked here is the same as nothing because "witness are not proof" and desqualifying all testimonies given here is just a poor "let's put a hot towel over this shit and move on", is JUST the type of opinion on the rapes cases. And in this case, as a victim, I found that suggestion even offensive. Did you read my testimony? Did you care or is interested about investigating before saying ANYTHING about proof and "nothing can be done"? Since when we victims are obliged to find proof to start an investigation? > Take a deep breath. You realize you are talking this way to a stranger on the internet who has no affiliation with any side in this controversy, right? I'm not trying to offend or discredit anything stated in this thread. I'm trying to outline your likely best course of action. That's all. I'm starting to wonder if both sides have their share of bullies. I mean, your response is so over-the-top-aggressive to what you interpret as an opposing viewpoint (which, again, was not the intent) that it's not really rational and coherent. I'm deeply offended that you're comparing your specific experience to rape cases. That analogy is inexcusable.

Some folks here are more worried in do some kind of justice, than present facts. Daniel Abreu VEKN ID - #6010149 "Ab auditione mala non timebit"

Bro, I see what happens here, for a long time before he became prince. as you said DCI have a system to that, VEKN no. I´m not worried in make his defence, i worried in doing this in the right way. Daniel Abreu VEKN ID - #6010149 "Ab auditione mala non timebit"

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > > > Charles_Bronson wrote: > > Suggesting everything spoked here is the same as nothing because "witness are not proof" and desqualifying all testimonies given here is just a poor "let's put a hot towel over this shit and move on", is JUST the type of opinion on the rapes cases. And in this case, as a victim, I found that suggestion even offensive. Did you read my testimony? Did you care or is interested about investigating before saying ANYTHING about proof and "nothing can be done"? Since when we victims are obliged to find proof to start an investigation? > > > Take a deep breath. You realize you are talking this way to a stranger on the internet who has no affiliation with any side in this controversy, right? I'm not trying to offend or discredit anything stated in this thread. I'm trying to outline your likely best course of action. That's all. > > I'm starting to wonder if both sides have their share of bullies. I mean, your response is so over-the-top-aggressive to what you interpret as an opposing viewpoint (which, again, was not the intent) that it's not really rational and coherent. I'm deeply offended that you're comparing your specific experience to rape cases. That analogy is inexcusable. > Inexcusable is when several people presses charges with several testimonies confirmating facts is to ignore everything, say there is not any proofs and say the better way to solve this is not investigating and ignoring everything and moving on. You are far more interested in burying this than digging the bones and finding the truth. I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

> Charles_Bronson wrote: > Anderson Garcia soon started questioning me asking in public why didn’t organized any events for years. As a tried to explain that we usually don’t play tourneaments, the NC started criticizing me openly and harshly, saying I “spoked too much and did nothing”. > That part ocurred with me more than once too. As many of you might not know, Itaocara ( the city I live ) is a small city on Rio de Janeiro, with around 20 thousand habitants only. I already managed to get over 12 people attending on events, but this is HARD to manage, because i need that every player on the city to spend 7 + hours on the same day... The game is alive at Itaocara, we won the 4fun championship once ( the city that plays more and post on the facebook group) Desso keeps harassing me that I dont run as many events as he did beside the fact that his events get always a low number ( for the size of the city ) of attending players. I will let the link of Brazilian champioship hosted on São Paulo by him www.vekn.net/event-calendar/event/8877 And a standard constructed hosted during the truckers riot ( many players could not attend because of gasoline shortage ) organized by another player in the same city. www.vekn.net/event-calendar/event/8929 This can show a little about this temper too, after a discussion with the National Coordenator Marcio Pinheiro because he abused the privileges of creator of the facebook groups ( like delete posts, ban players and likewise ), Im quoting and adding a print of the post he did after this: > > Desso wrote: > Desculpem alguns textos seguidos, acredito que esse seja o ultimo. > . > Nota oficial do Desso: > > - Organizadores e jogadores, venho comunicar o meu desligamento da CN. > . > - Vou seguir organizando de forma oficial os torneios e não opinarei contra nem a favor desta ou próximas CN´s > . > - Já adianto que se SP quiser ter 5000 organizadores na mesma cidade isso vai acontecer, e em qualquer outra cidade e estado do Brasil também poderá acontecer. > . > - Lembrando que, ser organizador ligado a VEKN cabem algumas responsabilidades, todas encontradas no site da VEKN. > . > Sejam menos políticos na internet e mais ativistas nas mesas, descontem suas indignações nas mesas de jogo, montando um deck novo, criando uma jogada diferente. Organizando e gerando novos jogadores. > . > Vou sair do grupo que criei de organizadores do BR e vou deixar na mão desta CN, pois seguirei oficial, mas da forma que considero poder fazer meu trabalho sem interferências negativas. Pois mesmo eu sendo o organizador mais produtivo do mundo (palavras do atual CN) até o momento, continuo tomando criticas de organizadores do Brasil que não conseguem realizar sequer um evento com quórum a anos, portanto, acredito que estou fazendo parte de um grupo com finalidades diferentes da que eu penso ser a crucial para a carta na mesa. > . > Para os de fora de SP, Até um dia nas mesas de VTES. > English translate without edits ( from google translate ) > Desso wrote: > Sorry for some texts in a row, I believe this is the last one. > Desso official note: > - Organizers and players, I come to communicate my disconnection from the CN. > - I will continue to officially organize the tournaments and I will not comment against or in favor of this or next CN's > He starts saying that he will leave the CN ( National Coordenation - Coordenação Nacional in portuguese ) without abdicate the prince status. He left the prince list and banned many members from the biggest VTES group on facebook, thats the complete opposite of what a "Organized Play Coordinator" ( his VEKN title on the Inner Circle) should do! > Desso wrote: > - Already advance that if SP wants to have 5000 organizers in the same city this will happen, and in any other city and state of Brazil may also happen. > . > - Remembering that, being an organizer linked to VEKN, there are some responsibilities, all found on the VEKN website. > To contextualize, another group of organizers on São Paulo started to promote an independent event ( linked above ) and he is talking about it, > Desso wrote: > Be less political on the internet and more activists at the tables, discard their indignations at the gaming tables, setting up a new deck, creating a different play. Organizing and generating new players. > He now contradicts himself because he have a history of be political on the internet and several organizers left the organization after discussing with him many times. > Desso wrote: > I will leave the group that I created of BR organizers and I will leave in the hand of this CN, therefore I will follow official, but in the way that I consider to be able to do my work without negative interferences. For even though I am the most productive organizer in the world (words of the current CN) so far, I continue to take criticism from organizers in Brazil who can not even perform an event with a quorum for years, so I believe I am part of a group with different purposes from what I think is the crucial one for the card at the table. > > For those outside of SP, Up to one day at the VTES tables. > When he says "organizers in Brazil who can not even perform an event with a quorum for years" he talks about me and other princes, and not every city is able to run an event because this requires enough players that want to play on events... Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Charles_Bronson wrote: > You are far more interested in burying this than digging the bones and finding the truth. > Okay, i'll say it again: I'm not trying to offend or discredit anything stated in this thread. I'm trying to outline your likely best course of action.

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > So, I am total outsider to this situation. But, I'm reading through all these posts, and all I see are accusations coming from one side, and I'm unsure anything I read constitutes a real violation of being a Prince (there may be real violations, I just don't know if they occurred). > He is a member of the Inner Circle I'm sure he already read this topic. He can reply at any time. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > > > Charles_Bronson wrote: > > You are far more interested in burying this than digging the bones and finding the truth. > > > Okay, i'll say it again: I'm not trying to offend or discredit anything stated in this thread. I'm trying to outline your likely best course of action. > Maybe, if it doesnt concearn you, leave out of it? Especially if you already said your piece. I feel so sorry for you guys in Brazil. It has been a joy hearing how many players you have. Best of luck with this ordeal. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Kraus wrote: > Maybe, if it doesnt concearn you, leave out of it? Especially if you already said your piece. > It's a public discussion forum. How about just ignoring my posts?

I thought this game was played by adults...

I just wanna say that the occurrency of the case "anthology kits", the mais problem, it was with me against the Anderson Garcia. He took with Elzo, that would play in EC last year, that I am a person who was trying to bring problems to him (Elzo confessed to me nowadays in SAC/BR 2018 in SP and he asks me for appologizes him). He also tryed to exposed me to all BR community how the member who caused that all players (expect the sp players) lost the possibility to have Anthology kits. I reported this to Gínes in that time. Fortunately, i contacted to Sandro from Portugal and I got some kits to my playgroup with him and help of Sydnelson. Also, i bought some of them from Zoro, who was to EC also. He also tryed to change the brazilian community opinnion against to me, judging my capacity of organizate the national championship from last year, and incitating the players to be angry with me. I just didn't give up because i'd responsabily with my playgroup. Well, sorry about my poor english. Mateus Prince of Manaus

Perhaps VEKN could allow a second regional coordinator (if approving archons is the issue, I dont know), have other princes organise tournaments there, and look which organisers tournaments players will go to? Seems like the path of least resistance in my opinion. Even if something is obviously wrong due to so many testimonies, but without proof I don't see how VEKN could place sanctions or anything. Also, much of what was reported was not strictly illegal (like selling prizes for money, organising tournament at poor location where participants are reliant on the organiser and then charging money for everything) , just very poor form. The claims of falsified archons are troubling, but I'm confused why people weren't more vocal at the time of the incidents. Because of this I suggest VEKN should allow a second regional coordinator to take responsibility, and let the players decide who is better suited to the task...? This incident is a good example of why power should never be concentrated on just one person. "Nearly all men can stand adversity. If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> cordovader wrote: > I thought this game was played by adults... > No way! As I remember, last time Brazilian players overran this forum when they was complaining about ban of a red star. So can't help thinking, that drama is greatly exaggerated. Accusations about abuse of vekn positions and vekn.net functionality, concerning deleting of calendar events, archons and player bannings (if there was any), should be investigated and fixed, if possible. If there are any forms of cheating "at ground level", than it may be a reason to juggle more intensively with the ideas of minimizing it, keeping in mind our quite limited resources (maybe it's a good idea anyway). Everything else, I think, should be decided by the Brasilian community. Maybe we should remind them, that there is no limit of a number of princes in any given city, if there are several persons who got different views on organization of sanctioned tournaments. NC Russia

> elotar wrote: > > > cordovader wrote: > > I thought this game was played by adults... > > > No way! > > Accusations about abuse of vekn positions and vekn.net functionality, concerning deleting of calendar events, archons and player bannings (if there was any), should be investigated and fixed, if possible. If there are any forms of cheating "at ground level", than it may be a reason to juggle more intensively with the ideas of minimizing it, keeping in mind our quite limited resources (maybe it's a good idea anyway). > > Everything else, I think, should be decided by the Brasilian community. Maybe we should remind them, that there is no limit of a number of princes in any given city, if there are several persons who got different views on organization of sanctioned tournaments. > Agree with most of these things. The VEKN database has logs. Are these maintained? Also, does the current NC have the support of all the Princes? Can he have a conference call with Ginés? Can Desso as well? VEKN is inclusive. Desso volunteered to help and all help is welcome. I don't think this should be seen by ANY player as VEKN taking a 'side' in any discussion. I don't play anymore, but I love the game and I have people all over the World who I consider friends. Many of them are regulars here. Lets move forward as best as possible. By posting this here, some Brazilian players are requesting help from ALL users of this forum, not just VEKN. Otherwise they could have organized depositions and contacted VEKN IC's directly. Meus camaradas, têm de estar abertos à ajuda e comentários de vossos colegas estrangeiros. É de boa fé. (*) (*) My comrades [in portuguese the expression is not political] , you have to be open to the help and commentaries of your international colleagues. It is of good faith.

I simply don’t care if he keeps playing and organizing local events, but he is not fit for his position on the IC. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

VERY serious allegations, falsification, despotism and the works... From so many people that there has to be at least some foundation to them. What is most serious is the fact that this person is part of the Inner Circle as well as a Prince. If the allegations are deemed to be true then there is NO way that such a person can hold a position in the Inner Circle. The Prince position should be considered too. To quote a classic: "With great power comes a great responsibility." If abuse of power can be deemed to have happened, the repercussions must be comparable to the position of the abusing person. As we are talking about top positions of VEKN (IC) I think the penalty must be as severe as possible and therefor I would not be opposed to revoking the membership to the VEKN. Over the years I've formed the opinion that South Americans tend to be very passionate people who try to embrace whatever they are doing by 110%. Over the years I've noticed that the VTES related things were embraced in a similar way over there, perhaps noticeably more than I think is needed, but to each his own. However, during the years I've seemed to have noticed some sort of additional hierarchy of their own built into the Brazilian VTES community. Any such hierarchy is totally unnecessary and I think serves only two purposes: ego building as well as amassing power over others. I can see all of the thing mentioned in the testimonies happening especially because of such unnecessary hierarchical power structure. Purge your local VTES scene from all the non-VEKN elements and hierarchies and you should be well in the way of preventing this kind of disaster ever happening again. Finnish Politics!

Thanks to all Brazilian players for their testimony. So many testimonies and so many efforts at once show two things: - how messed up the situation is, - how much passion you give to v:tes, we'll probably talk among the IC about this subject. I don't know when. I suppose Ben and Gines have already addressed the matter by themselves. I don't deal with those parts. What I can say as the other organized play coordinator worldwide: I would never use my position on a national level. I have refused the NC job in France because it would make me partial with my IC job. I am giving advices to the NC if he asks (or sometimes when he doesn't ) but I would never take decision for him. It's important to realize that at the end of the day, the IC has a coordination role, not an authoritarian role. We just want as many players as possible to enjoy their passion for the game, and try to find solutions for this (such as the GP's... I might talk about that later on in the discussion) but we don't force anybody into that. I take part to several unsanctioned events and that's very cool. So for the moment, Brazilian friends, please take patience and use that passion you're showing us to play the game, casual games, unofficial tournaments, whatever you want, and bring us those photos on the VEKN site for example, I'd like to see all those faces I don't know, and if you need another IC coordinator to enter tournaments or whatever is linked to organized play, I am here for this. orian gissler on facebook. I'll be following this. IC Organized play coordinator Please contact me with any OP query using the mail in my profile

Regarding Prices. Some years ago I asked about the inclusion of yet another Prince to greater Helsinki area since there were still quite a few at least semi active Princes. I was told that it shouldn't be a problem to have several Princes as the more activity there is the better. So we now have some half a dozen Princes for around a million people or so. So if you have a Prince in Brazil who is handling things dubiously, just have other(s) also organize events. Preferably not on same dates though. If Prince's conduct is dubious and he is not liked, people can thus ignore him and his events in favor of the events by other organizers. If the problematic person also managed networking possibilities, forums, Facebook groups and such, start new forums/groups which are not under his jurisdiction. With all this you can distance yourself from the problematic person and ostracise him if he himself doesn't have the sense and decency to step down from his position. Also remember that you can always post here at VEKN forums. Since we already have a spanish sub-forum, should we also have a brazilian one as well? If that person can modify VEKN Event Calendar, he most certainly should not be able to do the same to VEKN forum posts. So always make an event announcement post at www.vekn.net/forum/south-america Finnish Politics!

Strength and courage friends! By your own actions you'll resolve this mess although I'm sure that the Inner Circle is also looking into it. And i wouldn't be surprised if at the EC's NC meeting in few months we'll have to discuss this as well. VEKN just _can_not_afford_ to tolerate this kind of activity (that has been reported)! ¡No pasarán! Finnish Politics!

The Brazilian beasts will necessarily appear. I do not know what you want to do, and do not hesitate to pay anything for nothing. this is a hostile and misguided pursuit. Motivated by the lack of what to do or by envy. How about going to play more. Connsiderations: I participated in 90% of the championships of my State and also of the National and South Americans, all duly registered. Fernanda Nunes Vekn 601.0157

> Lönkka wrote: > So if you have a Prince in Brazil who is handling things dubiously, just have other(s) also organize events. Preferably not on same dates though. If Prince's conduct is dubious and he is not liked, people can thus ignore him and his events in favor of the events by other organizers. > From what I read, Desso would have used his position as a NC to discredit princes that didn't walk his way. Some princes would have been deemed as inefficient, and other would have taken their stead -- for the worse. I also read stories of tournaments deleted from the calendar (because a NC can do it), or posts deleted on the social networks (because Desso had the power to). The role of the NC is Brazil seems to be taken very seriously by all the Brazilian players, thus the very long reaction to what seems to be an abuse of power. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Lönkka wrote: > ...However, during the years I've seemed to have noticed some sort of additional hierarchy of their own built into the Brazilian VTES community. Any such hierarchy is totally unnecessary and I think serves only two purposes: ego building as well as amassing power over others. > > I can see all of the thing mentioned in the testimonies happening especially because of such unnecessary hierarchical power structure. > > Purge your local VTES scene from all the non-VEKN elements and hierarchies and you should be well in the way of preventing this kind of disaster ever happening again. > You are absolutely right. And is from things like we wanna get free of. That fake and misguided hierarchy was implemented through the yers by missinformation in some degree. Much of the people on Brazil don't speak english. So if a Prince or National Coordinator (what happening in the past) say something is true and is a rule implemented by VEKN, feel will be who could know if this is really true. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

> Ankha wrote: > > > Lönkka wrote: > > So if you have a Prince in Brazil who is handling things dubiously, just have other(s) also organize events. Preferably not on same dates though. If Prince's conduct is dubious and he is not liked, people can thus ignore him and his events in favor of the events by other organizers. > > > From what I read, Desso would have used his position as a NC to discredit princes that didn't walk his way. Some princes would have been deemed as inefficient, and other would have taken their stead -- for the worse. I also read stories of tournaments deleted from the calendar (because a NC can do it), or posts deleted on the social networks (because Desso had the power to). The role of the NC is Brazil seems to be taken very seriously by all the Brazilian players, thus the very long reaction to what seems to be an abuse of power. > Only correction: Desso made use of his position as Inner Circle (Organized Play Coordinator). And as close friend of the past two and the actual National Coordinator. Now, in the days after South American Championship, the actual National Coordinator broke up with Desso and begin listening to what the communit has to say. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

Hey guys, Desso is not a NC (National Coordinator), he is a Prince of São Paulo and Inner Circle member. Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer Prince of Rio de Janeiro Powerbase Rio de Janeiro

> Lönkka wrote: > ...So if you have a Prince in Brazil who is handling things dubiously, just have other(s) also organize events. Preferably not on same dates though. If Prince's conduct is dubious and he is not liked, people can thus ignore him and his events in favor of the events by other organizers. > Others have made similar suggestions here and this is something like a surprise. Because for many yer till now, the commom believe determined by past Nationa Coordinators, is that a City must have only one Prince. In some case was a realy ordeal to get more than one Prince in a single State becouse the initiative was greatly fighted back by past National Coordinators. As I said a real surgous ocurred some time ago (5 yers or more), iniciated by Desso an the National Coordinator to ban and revoke the registry of a dozen of Prince... > Lönkka wrote: > If the problematic person also managed networking possibilities, forums, Facebook groups and such, start new forums/groups which are not under his jurisdiction. With all this you can distance yourself from the problematic person and ostracise him if he himself doesn't have the sense and decency to step down from his position. > That is in progress just now. New facebook groups have been created both by the Nationa Coordinator as by some player. This mainly because a bunch of people got banned from the previous group. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

> cordovader wrote: > I thought this game was played by adults... > Do do I Daniel Abreu VEKN ID - #6010149 "Ab auditione mala non timebit"

> TapeTaChatte wrote: > So for the moment, Brazilian friends, please take patience and use that passion you're showing us to play the game, casual games, unofficial tournaments, whatever you want, and bring us those photos on the VEKN site for example, I'd like to see all those faces I don't know, > I'll upload some photos on the last event on TWD ( Rise of the Fallen ) And on the next event reports too! Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> febrasil wrote: > The Brazilian beasts will necessarily appear. I do not know what you want to do, and do not hesitate to pay anything for nothing. > > this is a hostile and misguided pursuit. Motivated by the lack of what to do or by envy. How about going to play more. > > Connsiderations: > I participated in 90% of the championships of my State and also of the National and South Americans, all duly registered. > > Fernanda Nunes > Vekn 601.0157 > I think that you forgot one consideration: He is your husband. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Lönkka wrote: > And i wouldn't be surprised if at the EC's NC meeting in few months we'll have to discuss this as well. > Me neither... see you in warsaw Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

Well, Alexandre Costa mentioned me as a witness, so I will give a brief testimony: My name is Sergio Nascimento, and I organized the game in my city, Vitoria, for almost 10 years. During that time, I organized more than 50 tournaments in my city, hosted tournaments (NAT and SAC) and I dealt with Desso as organizer from 2012 to 2016. Let me be clear: one of the major factors that lead to me leaving the organization was his actions and overall behavior. Desso never had scruples to assert his will, to the detriment of others, including organizers, playgroups from other states, and even the playgroup of his city, Sao Paulo. But, what sort of schemes are you talking about that made you give up on organizing events? You might be asking. I will tell you the most recent one as an example. Players from his own playgroup, in an attitude of dissent, organized a tournament last Saturday in a city nearby, Guarulhos – say New Jersey, instead of New York. In an attempt to stop this group from challenging him, at least his actions lead me to believe that this is how he sees it, Desso himself, using his authority of Inner Circle in VEKN, erased the event formerly created by the Brazilian National Coordinator Marcio Pinheiro, who created the event since none of the 5 organizers is a prince yet. Desso, then, re-created the event, writing himself as the organizer. Right after, he announced in the VTES Brasil Facebook group, moderated by him, that he had a conversation with the dissident players and that everything was okay now and that he was going to be the organizer of the event. As all involved original organizers can testify, as well as Marcio Pinheiro, such conversation never happened. But why would he want to validate the above mentioned event in his name? Because he lives of appearances, especially in what concerns the international community. So, he wanted to appear that everything was at peace. But that is not the case. For several reasons. As Alexandre Costa has already mentioned, Desso’s behavior goes from selling materials destined for tournaments prize support to fomenting intrigues within various playgroups. A person with this behavior cannot represent Organized Play within VEKN. He has been known as well for insulting others who disagree with him through private messages. From 2013 to 2016 things were no different. He made several maneuvers, like the one above, in order to enforce his own will, such as: 1) He fostered intrigue within various playgroups in Brazil, using his IC position to bargain support or even forcing the sale of the Anthology Kits, where he said that "kits would only come into the hands of the interested parties with my consent”(he told this to the Prince of Manaus – Mateus Souza), then he started to silence dissident voices by banning players from national groups of the game in retaliation and without plausible justification (only because the player was contrary to his opinions); 2) There were several problems caused by him, especially after major tournaments (NAT’s and SAC’s), because when he wasn’t the organizer, he always looked for problems to foment intrigue, trying to minimize the success of the event; 3) When I organized the NAT In 2016 even though he was not present, he sought information and brought results to the national group on Facebook before anyone else, just to satisfy his own ego, he did this while also sending messages to players who were at the event asking them to complain about details, such as timing, food options, and accommodations; 4) In 2015, through this sort of scheming, he managed to get the playgroup from Belo Horizonte suspended to host major events for 2 years. This was when he invaded his so called best friend Roberto Mautone’s facebook account. Desso, then, after invading Mautone’s account printed and published several private conversations from Mautone with other princes in the group of princes in order to, again, attack the parties involved and inforce his will. But why someone would do something like this? Because he is a narcissistic megalomaniac in search for power, who only cares about being right and being praised not minding the results of his recklessness, in this case the rupture of our national unity and players from several playgroups across the country giving up from playing the game or at least referring to participate in national tournaments, like I did since 2016, in order to avoid meeting him. It is notorious that Desso does not represent the behavior of the majority of players in Brazil. Also, it is notorious that much intrigue and wear was caused due to the problems caused by him. Moreover, right now, he is not even seems to be able to work in a respectful way with the current Brazil National Coordinator. Thus it is my belief that Desso Alastor, a.k.a Anderson Garcia, is unfit to be VEKN Organized Play Coordinator, since, in addition to not being an example of transparency and leadership, he has used his position to fulfill his personal agenda. Many may wonder why this all comes to light now, but the case is that before most of the players could not stand the wear and tear caused by his actions (including me) and preferred to silence and stop playing or hand over the position of organizer, like I did, since, after all, VTES is just a game and, mainly, the organization is voluntary, made by those who like the game and do not want it to end. Now, as the game has come back to print and since several playgroups are returning to activity, the most prudent thing to do is not tolerate any disruptive behavior within the game organization, and that is why so many people decided to speak up. I urge the other Inner Circle members to join me rejecting the attitudes of a person who depreciated the image of the game for the players in Brazil, discouraging many to play throughout his actions. In order for him to rise, many had to fall. While this is fun in VTES, since predators must kill their preys, it is far from enjoyable in real life. It is undeniable that this same person often (not to say always) is the epicenter of "crisis" of the game in the country. Despite having done much for the game in Brazil, through his engagement on line, it is my sole belief that most of the time he wanted personal benefits and praise. Thus, the results, what he has accomplished, the ends, should not justify the means. To conclude, yes, I am a witness to several of Desso’s actions that led to endless discussions, and I believe that even in the episode involving the fight on the last SAC in Sao Paulo is a consequence of his reckless behavior. Several players from Sao Paulo are saying that the fight was a result of months of bullying and that Desso did nothing about it before because he had personal interests in one of the parties involved. He was warned that such provocations would not end well and he preferred to be complacent and allow such behavior to continue, because allowing it suited him then. And that’s who he is. Sergio Nascimento - "Zammael"

Yeap, I'm not an addict in the game. see my ranking and participation in the events. advice: Speak less and play / organize more!

> febrasil wrote: > Yeap, > > I'm not an addict in the game. see my ranking and participation in the events. > > advice: Speak less and play / organize more! > Advice: large numbers of events or rank dont make you a person above someone else. Dont try to silence anyone here! About organize more: The duties of a prince are beyond only run events: www.vekn.net/vampire-elder-kindred-network/what-is-a-prince Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Sambomb wrote: > > > febrasil wrote: > > this is a hostile and misguided pursuit. Motivated by the lack of what to do or by envy. How about going to play more. > > > I think that you forgot one consideration: He is your husband. > TOUCHE! Basically the only (brazilian) person speaking for the accused party (and not against him) is his wife. Seems to me that the situation is crystal clear. If VEKN was Camarilla I think Sao Paolo would be currently dealing with a visit from a Justicar and a couple of Archons all in rather irritated mood... Finnish Politics!

> TapeTaChatte wrote: > It's important to realize that at the end of the day, the IC has a coordination role, not an authoritarian role. We just want as many players as possible to enjoy their passion for the game, > This! SO MUCH this! Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > > > Sambomb wrote: > > > > > febrasil wrote: > > > this is a hostile and misguided pursuit. Motivated by the lack of what to do or by envy. How about going to play more. > > > > > > > > I think that you forgot one consideration: He is your husband. > > > TOUCHE! > > Basically the only (brazilian) person speaking for the accused party (and not against him) is his wife. Seems to me that the situation is crystal clear. > > If VEKN was Camarilla I think Sao Paolo would be currently dealing with a visit from a Justicar and a couple of Archons all in rather irritated mood... > Not too fast. There is clearly a communication issue with the Brazilian players: many of them don't speak English and therefore don't come on the international forum. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > Not too fast. There is clearly a communication issue with the Brazilian players: many of them don't speak English and therefore don't come on the international forum. > "It's very important to learn foreign languages. It will greatly help you to win internet arguments." NC Russia

Two things came to my mind reading this thread. Firstly, are you guys (Brazilian players) being mislead? Being a Prince or an NC, or holding any title in VEKN does not directy represent power over others who are playing the game. It's responsibility, and extra-work TOWARDS the community. Without taking any sides in this feud (I haven't heard anything about what Desso has to say, until then I'll remain independent), I must say if any of this is true, Desso will probably face repercussions for his deeds and abuse of power, but this demagoguery needs to stop. The VEKN, and we (its titled members, as Prince and NC) are for the community, not the other way around... It probably derives (as several of you said) from lots of poeple not speaking English so they cannot come here and ask for opinions or see how things are handled differently elsewhere, but still, those of you who can please try to spread the word, and inform your local playerbase of the happenings here. Secondly, and it might sound a bit harsh, if Desso is indeed such an atrocious person, to hack other's facebook, banning and harrassing others, forging tournament reports, alienating playgroups from the network, how comes nobody has ever confronted him about this? NC of Hungary ///

> Malachy wrote: > Two things came to my mind reading this thread. > > Firstly, are you guys (Brazilian players) being mislead? Being a Prince or an NC, or holding any title in VEKN does not directy represent power over others who are playing the game. It's responsibility, and extra-work TOWARDS the community. Without taking any sides in this feud (I haven't heard anything about what Desso has to say, until then I'll remain independent), I must say if any of this is true, Desso will probably face repercussions for his deeds and abuse of power, but this demagoguery needs to stop. The VEKN, and we (its titled members, as Prince and NC) are for the community, not the other way around... It probably derives (as several of you said) from lots of poeple not speaking English so they cannot come here and ask for opinions or see how things are handled differently elsewhere, but still, those of you who can please try to spread the word, and inform your local playerbase of the happenings here. > > Secondly, and it might sound a bit harsh, if Desso is indeed such an atrocious person, to hack other's facebook, banning and harrassing others, forging tournament reports, alienating playgroups from the network, how comes nobody has ever confronted him about this? > As you can see in some testimonials, many players and princes try to confront him, but he use a lot of maneuvers to protect himself, also use his friendship with former National Coordinator. In addition, VTES should be something for fun, when people start getting annoyed, most of the time they prefer to move away instead being argumentative about something so silly compared to the problems and responsibilities of everyday life. Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer Prince of Rio de Janeiro Powerbase Rio de Janeiro

> Malachy wrote: > Secondly, and it might sound a bit harsh, if Desso is indeed such an atrocious person, to hack other's facebook, banning and harrassing others, forging tournament reports, alienating playgroups from the network, how comes nobody has ever confronted him about this? > We did several times at national groups, national level... he was a very close friend of the former NC and pretty close of the actual too, Desso’s wife tryed the NC spot in the last election and besides the majority chosing another one, the actual NC Márcio Pinheiro gave her a spot as “Vice national coordenator”, only after the South American Championship this year that it looks like they split after Desso and Marcio started to diverge in some points... As you can see on this thread if you have the patience to read 10 pages, some of us already complained about him before, but with no repercussion. And about his point of view, he is an IC member, they are expected to be regulars on vekn forum, his wife showed up here, so, even if he isn’t regular on the forum, she certainly told him about what are happening. Besides that, still not a word from him. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Ankha wrote: > Not too fast. There is clearly a communication issue with the Brazilian players: many of them don't speak English and therefore don't come on the international forum. > As a complete outsider to this situation, I agree with Ankha. There are two sides to every story. It seems like only one side is being told in this thread. And, from some of the posts in this thread, I'm not 100% sure this side is completely objective about the situation. I'm not saying anything stated in this thread is wrong or false, it's just that it's one side of the story. > Sydnelson wrote: > [As you can see some testimonials many players and princes try confront him, but he use a lot of maneuver to protect himself, also use his friendship with former National Coordinator. > Why not confront the National Coordinator then? It seems like this is the crux of the problem. Why have I read no outrage about this person? > In addition, VTES should be something for fun, when people start getting annoyed most of the time they prefer to move away from being argumentative about something so silly compared to the problems and responsibilities of everyday life. > So, what you are saying here does not jibe with what's being stated in this thread. People are acting like grave injustices were meted out by the accused person. These things can't be regarded as "silly" one day, and then be dire and serious the next. This makes me wonder if this whole situation is just silly. I mean, VTES is a game played for fun. If somebody is ruining that fun, why not confront that person and whoever is enabling them, not passively in an internet forum but actively in person? If everyone giving testimonials here were to do this, would that not solve the situation? You're not dealing with a despot who has layers of political protection from the masses. We are talking about a person who volunteers their time to organize events for a stupid card game. Go talk to them and tell them their acts are not appreciated. I know this is harsh, but I'm really not sure what everybody in this thread expects the people volunteering their time to run this organization to do. "Fire" the accused person, who again is a volunteer? Set up a kangaroo court and strip them of their position? This takes time and effort. How about we let the volunteers at VEKN focus on getting the game back in print and in a good place. You all go handle this situation more actively.

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > ...I know this is harsh, but I'm really not sure what everybody in this thread expects the people volunteering their time to run this organization to do. > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ― Edmund Burke Talking in my name only: I'm become really tired of no one making nothing or don't taking any position, or never taking a stand. And when some people came and asked if I could Help, if I could make the outside world know what happens... You know? What can I really lose here? If no one listen, if nothing change... I still get my peace of mind that I have done the right thing. After all, that other people found courage to come here speak too. And I say: No matter if nothing happens. Because some good people have done at last one thing, to speak against the evil... Thanks to everyone who spend your time to listen. Thank you so much. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

I think there is some national cultural ... (not sure about the word) ... specificity in the works, which Brazilian guys cant communicate because it's natural for them and Europeans cant understand because for them it's totally unnatural. I think i'm getting it, because in Russia it's also present in some ugly form. Maybe I'm mistaken, so it's just a guess, but it may be helpful. So in Russia there is, like, habit, to view any organization as a hierarchical structure, with bosses who should command the "masses". And anybody who are at the top are perceived as a boss who should be obeyed no matter, how he get there. So even if there are some democratic process like elections involved, it not means that thoughts of the people are asked - it just some game, which may (or actually should) be fixed so the "winner" can boss everybody freely again. All this stuff I heard about "IC position", "alliance with NC", bulling princes with some bushtit about their responsibilities ets looks very like how it happens here. And petitions to "bigger boss" (VEKN) is kind of a part of the standard modus operandi. Malachi is wondering, why nobody confronted Desso on behavior, if they found it unacceptable. The answer is that "boss is right because he is the boss" is kind of a rule, so confronting him is also unacceptable behavior no matter what. But if bigger bosses rule, that it's really unacceptable behavior, then... I do not know what to do in this situation if it's really is the case, such mindset is indoctrinated from childhood, you can't change it with any appeals to reason or logic. NC Russia

> Ankha wrote: > Not too fast. > Yeah. Let's all twiddle our thumbs and pretend nothing has happened and no problem has been brought into light. Let's give the accused party extended free reign of abusing power! > Ankha wrote: > There is clearly a communication issue with the Brazilian players: many of them don't speak English and therefore don't come on the international forum. > Indeed so. But some of them have come and all (except the wife) clearly think the guy is THE problem. He needs to go. The sooner the better for VEKN and for brazilian VTES community. VEKN needs to clearly show that such allegations are taken with utmost seriousness. I'd be inclined to say that he needs to be suspended from his position of IC member and Prince ASAP while the rest of the Inner Circle investigate the situation. Isn't suspension a standard procedure in such cases? Very serious allegations -> temporary suspension while the investigation is in process. This also shows that something is being done. If deemed guilty the the suspension can be followed by removing the titles (& VEKN membership) permanently. If, for some reason, he is deemed pure as driven snow, then he can be reinstated to his position(s). Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > Not too fast. > > > Yeah. Let's all twiddle our thumbs and pretend nothing has happened and no problem has been brought into light. > Let's give the accused party extended free reign of abusing power! > > > Ankha wrote: > > There is clearly a communication issue with the Brazilian players: many of them don't speak English and therefore don't come on the international forum. > > > Indeed so. > But some of them have come and all (except the wife) clearly think the guy is THE problem. > > He needs to go. > The sooner the better for VEKN and for brazilian VTES community. > > VEKN needs to clearly show that such allegations are taken with utmost seriousness. > I'd be inclined to say that he needs to be suspended from his position of IC member and Prince ASAP while the rest of the Inner Circle investigate the situation. > > Isn't suspension a standard procedure in such cases? Very serious allegations -> temporary suspension while the investigation is in process. This also shows that something is being done. > > If deemed guilty the the suspension can be followed by removing the titles (& VEKN membership) permanently. If, for some reason, he is deemed pure as driven snow, then he can be reinstated to his position(s). > I think one of the issues is that VEKN does not have a 'standard procedure' for these cases, and mostly does not even have clear guidelines on what is or isn't acceptable behaviour by Princes and NCs - that's something we should actually work on. So even if you suspend him and start an investigation, what are you going to find him guilty of? Certainly some of the behaviour described should be reprimended, OTOH some of the accusations are just silly - eg: pushing a last-minute vote for hosting a tournament being described as 'sordid maneuvering'?? That's nothing compared to most VtES games... Remember Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." What I've read on this thread actually points more to personal clashes than actual misbehaviour - both sides seem equally at fault to be honest. I do agree that given Desso's inability to properly handle those clashes he should probably step down from any role at the NC or IC level, but I don't believe (based on the evidence presented) that he was ever as bad as most of these posts are making him out to be. I predict that making this about 'one bad guy' will probably just serve to placate some players and aggravate others, and will do little to fix the state of VtES in Brazil in the long run.

> skimflux wrote: > [l > I think one of the issues is that VEKN does not have a 'standard procedure' for these cases, and mostly does not even have clear guidelines on what is or isn't acceptable behaviour by Princes and NCs - that's something we should actually work on. > yeah. I'm surprised there isn't a code of conduct or community standards in place, as well as some kind of grievance process with how to escalate communication.

Some things might look silly, but if you look the greater picture you will see that his actions have damaged the community integrity. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

V:EKN is currently investigating the Brazilian situation and, at the same time, we are developing a code of conduct for V:EKN volunteers. V:EKN Website Coordinator

Hello Everyone, my name is Daniel Martinez and I am (or was) one of the first VTES players in São Paulo, back in 1995. This is my first post here (I just created an account) , I have been following the latest developments from the shadows. I was a strong VTES supporter, both through tournament organization as well as owner of one of the largest VTES sites in Brazil around 2000 till I quit VTES. Some people in Brazil might remember me by my nick Dragos. I quit VTES in 2009 and one of the main reasons was the moral harassment made by this gentleman which I refuse to type the name. It was difficult to run anything without being subjected to criticism and offenses. At the time I thought it was personal but today I see it was not. As others said, it was all about money and ego. I can attest that I know exactly what others are talking about here, it's hard to explain, its just sordid. A truly two faced disgusting person. Just my two cents Daniel Martinez aka Dragos

> dragos_br wrote: > At the time I thought it was personal but today I see it was not. As others said, it was all about money and ego. I can attest that I know exactly what others are talking about here, it's hard to explain, its just sordid. A truly two faced disgusting person. > As of today, the Brazilian National Coordinator said he have delivered to the VEKN a polling result with the opinion of many players. From may 28 through june 10, the brazilian player could express his opinions about Desso Alastor maintaining or not a Inner Circle seat. A great number of players participated. But the National Coordinator choose to only count the votes of the "active players" (those who have participated in ranked tournaments ins the last 12 months). The result is: 10 active players voted that Desso should continue as VEKN Inner Circle. 36 active players voted that Desso must not remains as VEKN Inner Circle. Could appears to be a small number. But those who have voted, choose to risk become banned from all the VTES related groups that are controled by Desso, on the facebook. Polling post on the facebook group : www.facebook.com/groups/vtesbr/permalink/2056020717989238/ What we expect from the future?: "That all of this bring a evolution to the VTES environment. That people avoid to commit bad behaviors knowing that no one will keep silence again." Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

It's a closed group, so we can't see the results. What are the results by counting also the non-active players votes? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

As below, sorry, phone got a bit tricky. NC of Hungary ///

Is it only me sensing a bit of contradiction in that regulation of vote counting? 1. According to the testimonies, didn't Desso himself oversee all tournaments and modify them as he saw fit, meaning a tournament could only be sanctioned if he allowed it (meaning that players who had crossed paths with Desso before, never had the chance to organize a sanctioned tournament to begin with)? 2. How about the players who he (again, according to testimonies) had trouble with, had attended sanctioned tournemants previously, but stopped doing so because of him, BEFORE 1 year ago? 3. Why is your NC counting the votes and even overseeing the whole proccess? Was he elected to do so? If I recall correctly, he was a former friend to Desso, but former or not, either way he is not unbiased to judge and make calls, is he? I might be exaggerating, but shouldn't you choose an independent (even a foreigner) person to conduct this referendum and its regulations? NC of Hungary ///

The result was informed to the Chairman, who can follow the voting in our group. I remember that it is up to the Chairman alone to keep Desso in the position of Organized Play Coordinator. Baron Márcio (The Ugly) - VEKN ID - 6050012 Baron of Fortaleza - Prince ID: 730 NC of Brazil - ID: 193

> Malachy wrote: > Is it only me sensing a bit of contradiction in that regulation of vote counting? > > 1. According to the testimonies, didn't Desso himself oversee all tournaments and modify them as he saw fit, meaning a tournament could only be sanctioned if he allowed it (meaning that players who had crossed paths with Desso before, never had the chance to organize a sanctioned tournament to begin with)? > > 2. How about the players who he (again, according to testimonies) had trouble with, had attended sanctioned tournemants previously, but stopped doing so because of him, BEFORE 1 year ago? > > 3. Why is your NC counting the votes and even overseeing the whole proccess? Was he elected to do so? If I recall correctly, he was a former friend to Desso, but former or not, either way he is not unbiased to judge and make calls, is he? I might be exaggerating, but shouldn't you choose an independent (even a foreigner) person to conduct this referendum and its regulations? > I agree with most of yours arguments. VEKN chairman said a investigation are in place. I believe that who is in charge of such investigation would be the proper choice to run a more open polling, including all the players. About Márcio Pinheiro ( fmcpce ) who is the brazilian National Coordinator: His position to the brazilian VTES community were that he would not make public his personal opinião. And the polling were intended to express the active players position about the situation. I can only guess, but believe this is his attempt to not be or not appears to be partial. Yes, would be better if all the players could vote. But in current state of things, is preferable that VEKN conduct such research. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

> Ankha wrote: > It's a closed group, so we can't see the results. > What are the results by counting also the non-active players votes? > Impossible to know,the comments got deleted from the topic, but many from São Paulo are inactive in VEKN because they dont attend any events from Desso. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Sambomb wrote: > > Impossible to know,the comments got deleted from the topic, but many from São Paulo are inactive in VEKN because they dont attend any events from Desso. > Perhaps y'all need your own facebook group... With blackjack! And Hookers!

> self wrote: > > > Sambomb wrote: > > > > Impossible to know,the comments got deleted from the topic, but many from São Paulo are inactive in VEKN because they dont attend any events from Desso. > > > Perhaps y'all need your own facebook group... With blackjack! And Hookers! > Count me in! About a new facebook group, I think VEKN should have a worldwide group with a VEKN administrator because Desso is the administrator of the VTES World and blocked a player, one of the organizers of Cruzada-SP an event with over 30 players in São Paulo "poxa, fui entrar na VTES WORLD, mas fui banido e bloqueado por um ADM (quem será?!)" In a rough translation: Damn, I was about to enter VTES WORLD, but I was banished and blocked by an ADM ( guess who ) Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

This forum is the worldwide group But I agree that something must be done with Desso calling the shots on who he'll let in on FB group VTES WORLD. If you have a worldwide VTES FB group and some VTES players are banned from entering it because of the pettiness of the group administrator, then either a) the administrator has to ge b) VEKN will need to form a new worldwide FB group with several administrators (to prevent this ever happening again) and people in the old group will need to be informed that they should leave the old group and jump aboard the new one. And let the administrator play his games in his sandbox alone and unofficially. If he refusing players to joining the group then it is one more transgression he is guilty of which should weigh on him when Inner Circle debates what they'll do regarding this problem. Finnish Politics!

Regarding voting: Even with restrictions of who can vote shutting down people who are at odds with the problematic person I think the vote still rather clearly shows what the people are thinking with 3,6 against 1. > KzArashi wrote: > The result is: 10 active players voted that Desso should continue as VEKN Inner Circle. 36 active players voted that Desso must not remains as VEKN Inner Circle. > Finnish Politics!

If we keep digging there is a lot of skeletons to find yet... Another topic that comes to public is the Continental qualifiers abuse, while VEKN didnt have rules for how many Continental Qualifiers an organizer can make, if anyone take a closer look at this link www.vekn.net/rating-system and this clause: a qualifier for the continental championships, 0.25 is added to the coefficient can think that this is a way to abuse and get more points on the VEKN rank. The last 15 events that he organized in the previous 365 days, 8 are Continental Qualifiers: 2018-05-19 Reunion - Standard Constructed 2018-04-30 Sul-americano - Continental Championship 2018-04-29 Campeonato Brasileiro - National Championship 2018-04-28 Teatro dos Vampiros - Continental Qualifier 2018-04-22 Bruxa de Blair - Continental Qualifier 2018-03-18 Silêncio dos Inocentes - Continental Qualifier 2018-03-03 Chamado - Continental Qualifier 2018-01-14 Jogos Mortais - Continental Qualifier 2017-12-18 Om - Standard Constructed 2017-12-10 Ubuntu - Standard Constructed 2017-11-04 Namaste - Standard Constructed 2017-09-24 Borboleta - Continental Qualifier 2017-08-06 Paz - Continental Qualifier 2017-07-08 Valhala - Continental Qualifier 2017-06-25 Aloha - Standard Constructed Anyone can check his profile under Organized Events: Desso Alastor Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Sambomb wrote: > If we keep digging there is a lot of skeletons to find yet... > > Another topic that comes to public is the Continental qualifiers abuse, while VEKN didnt have rules for how many Continental Qualifiers an organizer can make, if anyone take a closer look at this link www.vekn.net/rating-system and this clause: a qualifier for the continental championships, 0.25 is added to the coefficient can think that this is a way to abuse and get more points on the VEKN rank. > > The last 15 events that he organized in the previous 365 days, 9 are Continental Qualifiers: Aloha - Standard Constructed Valhala - Continental Qualifier Paz - Continental Qualifier Borboleta - Continental Qualifier Namaste - Standard Constructed Ubuntu - Standard Constructed OM - Standard Constructed Jogos Mortais - Continental Qualifier Chamado - Continental Qualifier Silêncio dos Inocentes - Continental Qualifier Bruxa de Blair - Continental Qualifier Teatro dos Vampiros - Continental Qualifier Campeonato Brasileiro - National Championship Sul-Americano - Continental Championship Reunion - Standard Constructed > Anyone can check his profile under Organized Events: Desso Alastor > About the CQ circumstances, a few days ago Vincent Ripoll (Rules Director/Ratings Coordinator) have inquired the Brazilian National Coordinator. But his post on the facebook was made on the group administered by Desso. So almost got unnoticed by de CN. The luck is that one of the players tha still haven't got banned from the group, informed the remaining players, sending a PrintScreen of the post. I believe the CN must have talked to Vincent Ripoll by now. But have no idea what was the explanation or what conclusion were crafted about the situation. And being honest, I never paid attention to this. In reality, I only noticed this after Vicente Ripoll asked for explanations. And since then some players are questioning if the positions of Desso and his wife on the VEKN ranking are in fact a product of manipulation and abuse of the CQ system, too. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

Kaze Your unsucess is caused by your laCK of méritos and not for my results. My firth nacional title was conquisted and Rio de janeiro (Prince Fernando Cesar), and my Second nacional title was conquisted in Manaus (Prince Mateus). go pack what to do. Stop using my name in intrigue without evidence ... or I will have to understand this as defamation and take legal action. Tks

This not concerns VTES or VEKN, but: My personal success is measured by being a single parent of a 19 years old girl, raised by my self. A girl so smart that is on College studying Cinema, have been awarded a scholarship (100% free) because his own merits. My personal sucess is measured by beeing a black men on a realy prejudiced societ. And by working on the same company for 18 years. And already being promoted twice. I work hard (no one can dismiss this). My personal success is not measured by any one of my hobbies. Hobbies is something to do in your free time, something to enjoy and make you a little happy. Some time to share with your friends. That's how I see things. Maybe I'm wrong. Priest of Rio de Janeiro My blog: Portal Distant Kingdoms Facebook: Distant Kingdoms Youtube: Distant Shore

I Think we are stretching the argument a bit too far. Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

> thelonius wrote: > I Think we are stretching the argument a bit too far. > I feel the VEKN is already aware of issues and investigating. Additional problems to report that have credible proof are still relevant here, but some things are a stretch. The VEKN should probably maintain an official Facebook page. That doesn't make the official forums anything less, but it keeps everything under the same leadership.

> febrasil wrote: > Kaze > Your unsucess is caused by your laCK of méritos and not for my results. > My firth nacional title was conquisted and Rio de janeiro (Prince Fernando Cesar), and my Second nacional title was conquisted in Manaus (Prince Mateus). > Fernanda / Desso, ad hominem "arguments" are a pitiful thing, and no one are arguing about your titles. > febrasil wrote: > go pack what to do. > He's fighting for his convictions, why are you so mad about it? > febrasil wrote: > Stop using my name in intrigue without evidence ... or I will have to understand this as defamation and take legal action. > Tks > The only time that you can associate you with KzArashi topic is : "And since then some players are questioning if the positions of Desso and his wife on the VEKN ranking are in fact a product of manipulation and abuse of the CQ system, too." He dont even quote your name and dont blame you of anything! He talks about some players ( im one of these players ) that are questioning if manipulation and abuse did really happen. Please ask Desso to reply in this topic and explain himself, the forum is open and im sure he is not blocked ( unlike what he did with many players on the facebook groups ) Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

I'm still curious about what he has to say regarding these charges. I don't know what is going on besides an internal "investigation" issued by VEKN, but I hope we will hear from him soon (Desso). NC of Hungary ///

It makes sense that he's been radio silent here. He didn't post much to begin with from what i can tell, and posting in this thread to defend himself would really only serve to exacerbate an already heated situation. Seeing that a code of conduct is being drafted gives me hope the powers that be will address things in due time.

Over a month already, any news? Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

I can't believe that VEKN changed the Inner Circle struct without give the Brazilian community an assertive answer about this! We all know that there is a LOT going on with the reprints, EC and fifth edition release. But if we cant trust that VEKN will do something about this, i think we should not put any more effort, time and money in the game, just play it casually or just drop everything alltogether. I'm seeing some changes, VEKN managed to remove Desso from the Inner Circle without this looks like a punishment, a moderator has been added to the forum to prevent further personal attacks like the ones that happened in this topic, a new guideline was promised... He still controls the VTES WORLD facebook group, he managed to forge an false acusation against the new prince of São Paulo saying that his first official tournament as a prince was fake and a "ghost" event. While VEKN dont give us an real answer about this topic, we will not rest! Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510

> Sambomb wrote: > he managed to forge an false acusation against the new prince of São Paulo saying that his first official tournament as a prince was fake and a "ghost" event. > There was a mistake in the archon, and it is normal that it is reported. This has been investigated, and fixed. Somehow, a player who was not present had been switched with a player present (and not appearing in the archon). The correct archon should have been resubmitted by now, or will be shortly. *Any* suspicious activity regarding results should be reported. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Sambomb wrote: > He still controls the VTES WORLD facebook group > Who created that FB group? He himself? Then it is pretty hard to give him the boot if he is not willing. But anyways, if the position irritates people, they should vote fit their boots ( = remove themselves from that group). Someone (perhaps BCP guys) should create a new similar FB group to replace VTES World. Finnish Politics!

> Ankha wrote: > > > Sambomb wrote: > > he managed to forge an false acusation against the new prince of São Paulo saying that his first official tournament as a prince was fake and a "ghost" event. > > > There was a mistake in the archon, and it is normal that it is reported. This has been investigated, and fixed. Somehow, a player who was not present had been switched with a player present (and not appearing in the archon). The correct archon should have been resubmitted by now, or will be shortly. > > *Any* suspicious activity regarding results should be reported. > I agree with you that every suspicious activity should be reported and investigated, including those in this topic. An error while filling the archon is not something similar to a ghost event, players from the same city probably with similarities in the vekn ID and over 20 persons, that can happen... > “Lönkka” wrote: > Who created that FB group? > He himself? > > Then it is pretty hard to give him the boot if he is not willing. > > But anyways, if the position irritates people, they should vote fit their boots ( = remove themselves from that group). > > Someone (perhaps BCP guys) should create a new similar FB group to replace VTES World. > He created, I’m just waiting BCP/Vekn/Whitewolf create an official group to leave the old one behind and get to the official one, but while this doesn’t happen VTES World still is “the official” one and members of white wolf like Dhaunae are present in the group. Archbishop of Itaocara Prince ID #510