TWD – 1st Tragic Love Affair

1st Tragic Love Affair Espoo, Finland May 26th, 2018 2R+F 13 players, Standard constructed Winner: Karri Malm www.vekn.net/event-calendar/event/8893 www.facebook.com/events/232389697311256/ It was good to organize the first tournament after half a year's break caused by moving to the second biggest city in Finland, Espoo. The new location required a new title, and I decided to stick to the Toreador theme (even though "Cave of Apples" would have suited the new location). A characteristic of this tournament was that while the games mostly weren't stagnant as such, few points were gained, and the last spot in the final was drawn between three players with 1,5 VPs (and equal TPs). Another interesting trait was the abundance of Malkavians (of both varieties), who were the main clan in at least five decks (three of which ended up in the same table in round 2). Final RankNamePrelim GWsPrelim VPsFinal VPsTPs 1Karri Malm02390 2Jyri Puhakka01,5072 2Jani Malmi030114 2Matti Palomäki13172 2Juha Laukkanen131108 6Antti Penttilä01,572 7Petri Wessman01,572 8Jaakko Nurro01,566 9Tero Aalto0172 10Katja Jauhiainen0154 10Juho Linna0154 12Lasse Pöyry00,554 13Emma Takkunen0036 The final table: Matti Palomäki (Lasombra/Tremere bruise bleed) Jyri Puhakka (!Malkavians with Toy) Jani Malmi (!Salubri Wall) Karri Malm (Xipe Totec toolbox) Juha Laukkanen (Malkavian bleed) The winning deck will appear below shortly. 2 votes (titled) of Helsinki

About the final decks: Matti's deck seemed to be built around the ability to play CrimeThinc. with Thaumaturgy, giving his Lasombra/!tremere anarchs multiacting options (untap an anarch during minion phase with 1 pool). Other than that it was mostly normal dominate stuff. Jani Malmi's !salubri wall seemed to rely heavily on the new card "righteous aura" for ousting power. Blade of Bellona was also used. Lots of flaming swords or walking sticks were waved around. I had a single !malk in the crypt, so technically it was malk/!malk stealth bleed. Some thoughts about the final even though I wasn't the winner: I was first seed going into the final. I knew I didn't want to sit next to the !salubri, or in front of Matti. I knew all decks except Jyri's so I chose to be in front of Karri (who I considered the least aggressive deck of the table, a toolbox wall) and behind Matti because I was running touch of clarities and Matti was the only practical target for those. 1. Matti (dom/thaum anarchs) -> 2. Jyri (!malk + Toy) -> 3. Jani (!salubri wall) -> 4. Karri (Xipe Totec toolbox) -> 5. Juha (malk/!malk SB) The wall decks were doing wall things on one side of table, and the other side was bleeding forward relatively aggressively. Unfortunately !salubri and Xipe Totec were too respectful of one another for my taste. I had hoped they would've hit each other more fiercely. Jyri is suffering from strong combat of the !salubri, who are rushing mostly backwards. Matti ousts Jyri who is caught between flaming swords and multiple dominate bleed minions, then I oust Matti. Then I get Jani into 1 pool. Ousting Jani would've afaik meant tournament victory for me, as Karri could've only gotten to even 2 points after that, and I was the first seed. Alas, my deck fails to provide stealth cards at the crucial moment and !salubri catch the winning bleed. That will be that as Karri had enough +bleed to oust me. Eventually Karri also ousts Jani for the win with about 10 minutes on the clock. I took some pictures from the final table but unfortunately the pictures were too shaky without flash.. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > Jani Malmi's !salubri wall seemed to rely heavily on the new card "righteous aura" for ousting power. Blade of Bellona was also used. Lots of flaming swords or walking sticks were waved around. > Since Lost Kindred is only legal for tournament play on the 10th of June (see www.vekn.net/card-lists/398-lost%20kindred), this seems problematic. -- National Coordinator South Africa

Correct, this tournament can't be rated. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Well this tournament was tragic for sure... Poor Darvag. Still no TWDA appearance. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Not much to do about it, then, than to have a new one. 2 votes (titled) of Helsinki

> Ankha wrote: > Correct, this tournament can't be rated. > Yup. So I'm not approving the Archon but deleting it instead. No fun Finnish Politics!

Is this really the thing to do? When there is a problem with a player's deck, even if it is uncaught all the way to the finals, should the repercussions of this hit everyone in the tournament - and most of all the winner, who is denied the TWDA entry?

Dura lex, sed lex. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I imagined it was obvious to everyone there that the tournament was not an official one (because I saw those new cards in one player's deck during the break between turns), but apparently not; I should have noted the issue out loud I guess. There was apparently some discussion about this pre-game, but I missed it. Maybe it was before I arrived (?)

> Ankha wrote: > Dura lex, sed lex. > For the clarity, I'd like to know what the lex here is, precisely. An uncaught illegal deck invalidates the tournament - does this only happen if they play in the finals?(*) Does it matter how illegal the deck is - say there's a vampire of illegal grouping in a crypt, or the Anthelios in a library - would the lex hold the same? What would be the correct thing to do when something like this happens - DQ during the final, I guess? And in case the game has only just started, maybe restart the final? (*) And the results get discussed in the forums with enough detail so that the error gets spotted by someone, I'm tempted to add

I had a wee chat with Jani about this actually, and he said that the new cards got green light from the organizer, who apparently just didn't catch that legalization date. They will know better though, obviously, but just stating that before they chime in. Too bad, really, but mistakes happen. Make Xipe Totec happen again, asap! "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Beatrice wrote: > Is this really the thing to do? When there is a problem with a player's deck, even if it is uncaught all the way to the finals, should the repercussions of this hit everyone in the tournament - and most of all the winner, who is denied the TWDA entry? > Yes, for the following reasons: All players in official tournaments must know the rules. Judges are volunteers that must enforce the rules. The responsibility is shared by all in the tournament. Having said that, yes, the volunteer judges have a lot more visibility and a lot more knowledge (usually). Also a lot more work.

So far I haven't met anyone who was considerably upset about this tournament being unrated, although I haven't talked to Karri who won it. I guess most every participant didn't really care that much at the time of the tournament. Casual is the word. However, I'd like to raise awareness that the information when the set is legal is hidden pretty goddamn well. As far as I can see, the information regarding lost kindred legality is only in the header of lost kindred release, a post that I cannot even find by scrolling the forum or the front page of this site. I can see it if I follow the link given by DrnImza in this thread, but I don't actually know where it is. Its probably been buried under all the clan spoiler posts. I cant find it browsing the forum since I'm not sure where to look. The information doesn't appear anywhere else that I can see. Browsing quickly, the information is not mentioned in the lost kindred FAQ. There was a question in the LK FAQ thread about the legality date, but it was left unanswered. Forum search "lost kindred legal" brings up mainly this thread. Tournament rules mention however that new releases become legal apporx. 30 days after release. Finding this rule takes some digging as well. Its however something that tournament organisers should obviously be aware of. Jaakko said to me that he searched for the legality date from here before tournament started but couldn't find it. I can't find it right now, except for that link in this thread. Can we, during future releases, make a clear, stickied FAQ thread that actually mentions the legality date? Lost kindred FAQ is not even stickied right now, and it doesn't even mention the date. ps. I just did a forum search with exact phrase "Legal for tournament play" as it appears in the lost kindred release post, search can't find it. It comes up with hundred unrelated posts however. pps. Ok I found the post. Its in Rules - Cardlists - Lost kindred. I think it should be mentioned elsewhere as well. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

And on the main page as well, not forums at all. All relevant and up to date tournament and game information should be clearly accessible without forums. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

It has been standard operating procedure for who knows how long that new releases have a short period after the release (a month or so) during which they are not legal for tournament play. Perhaps in the past the judges tended to remind players of this, or I at least remember Petri sometimes having mentioned this before his tournaments. I'm not sure if the judge was familiar with this detail; he is relatively new one both as a player and as a judge. If he knew about it and decided to let Jani play with illegal cards since he drove a long way to the tournament (at least 2 hours, or if from Joensuu then 5 and half hours) he perhaps thought that not being able to play after such a long travel would be a real bummer? Still, the VEKN Ratings Coordinator Ankha already issued his verdict (4th post in this thread) so I think it is kinda settled. Even it sucks big time for Karri (the winner). Finnish Politics!

Still, the archon can be uploaded. I've changed it's format to Unsanctioned. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Lönkka wrote: > I'm not sure if the judge was familiar with this detail; he is relatively new one both as a player and as a judge. > You're obviously referring to me here. I wasn't the head judge of the tournament (it was Petri) but I was the organizer, obviously. There was, indeed, discussion about the new cards' legality before the tournament started. I tried to find the information but couldn't find any, and as nobody present seemed to think they wouldn't be legal, went with this. When it comes to being new, well yes, these are the first new cards to be published during the time I've played the game. > Ankha wrote: > Still, the archon can be uploaded. I've changed it's format to Unsanctioned. > All right, I'll reupload it with that type. 2 votes (titled) of Helsinki

> UFOPOLI wrote: > You're obviously referring to me here. I wasn't the head judge of the tournament (it was Petri) but I was the organizer, obviously. There was, indeed, discussion about the new cards' legality before the tournament started. > To be clear: I arrived a bit later than most of the others, and was told "I made you the head judge, hope you don't mind" (I didn't). Any discussion about the new cards happened either before I arrived or in another room where I didn't hear it -- since I was well aware of the old 30 day rule and would have said so immediately. When I saw the new cards being used (during break after 1st round), I assumed there had been a decision to make the tournament unofficial. Should have said something at that point, of course -- but it would have been too late by then anyway. :/ I agree that the legality of the new cards should be made very clear in multiple places. As noted previously, that info is not easy to find on this site. Something to fix for next release

Yes, it was a combination of unlucky coincidences, but if the information had been provided less obscurely, the whole situation could have been easily avoided. 2 votes (titled) of Helsinki

Duly noted, I'm guilty on that part. We'll do it better next time. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> UFOPOLI wrote: > but if the information had been provided less obscurely, the whole situation could have been easily avoided. > I, for one, did notice the information and though "Ah, everything is still working just like it always has..." But that is no reason to not do better late on. Especially in order to prevent such an unfortunate chain of event sever happening again. Finnish Politics!

Unsanctioned event report approved Finnish Politics!

> Ankha wrote: > Dura lex, sed lex. > > Beatrice wrote: > For the clarity, I'd like to know what the lex here is, precisely. An uncaught illegal deck invalidates the tournament - does this only happen if they play in the finals? Does it matter how illegal the deck is - say there's a vampire of illegal grouping in a crypt, or the Anthelios in a library - would the lex hold the same? > > What would be the correct thing to do when something like this happens - DQ during the final, I guess? And in case the game has only just started, maybe restart the final? > I still would like an answer to my post. Are there some guidelines or rules on this kind of thing somewhere? It would be good to know what is the basis for a decision such as the unsanctioning of this tournament - transparency is a good thing and builds trust in the people responsible for making such decisions. Also, it would be interesting and potentially important to know the correct procedure, had the situation been spotted in the finals, for avoiding getting the whole event unsanctioned.

> Beatrice wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > Dura lex, sed lex. > > > > Beatrice wrote: > > For the clarity, I'd like to know what the lex here is, precisely. An uncaught illegal deck invalidates the tournament - does this only happen if they play in the finals? Does it matter how illegal the deck is - say there's a vampire of illegal grouping in a crypt, or the Anthelios in a library - would the lex hold the same? > > > > What would be the correct thing to do when something like this happens - DQ during the final, I guess? And in case the game has only just started, maybe restart the final? > > > I still would like an answer to my post. Are there some guidelines or rules on this kind of thing somewhere? It would be good to know what is the basis for a decision such as the unsanctioning of this tournament - transparency is a good thing and builds trust in the people responsible for making such decisions. > > Also, it would be interesting and potentially important to know the correct procedure, had the situation been spotted in the finals, for avoiding getting the whole event unsanctioned. > There are some guidelines in the "Judges' Guide" section: www.vekn.net/judges-guide In the case of this tournament, more than one player were using cards that were not already allowed. If it was not possible to fix the player's deck but still play the tournament, then the solution is to make it unsanctioned. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > There are some guidelines in the "Judges' Guide" section: www.vekn.net/judges-guide > > In the case of this tournament, more than one player were using cards that were not already allowed. If it was not possible to fix the player's deck but still play the tournament, then the solution is to make it unsanctioned. > In all other games that I know, only the player(s) with the illegal deck is disqualified. It seems strange to unsanction an entire tournament and thus spoil it for all the players who had nothing to do with the matter. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > In all other games that I know, only the player(s) with the illegal deck is disqualified. It seems strange to unsanction an entire tournament and thus spoil it for all the players who had nothing to do with the matter. > The time to do that was before the finals began (or even once it was known during the finals). At the point Ankha sees the results, the best decision is to make it unsanctioned.