Submission: Greater Purpose

Name: Greater Purpose Cardtype: Master Put this card on a non-titled vampire you control. During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. Burn this card if this vampire becomes titled or calls a referendum. Art note: a vampire seen from above and looking towards us, the arms opened, a bloody knive in the hand and a large bleeding cut on his other arm. The blood drips to a mosaic ground depicting a grim vampire figure, mouth opened, teeth bare. Created by: Vincent Ripoll Source: none Game need: the card is here to help building viable mid-cap or high-cap vampires that don't belong to the trusting archetypes (such as high cap voters), for instance a POT / CEL combat deck, a Nosferatu bestial deck etc. Those deck can't use efficiently cards such as Villein, and Vessel or Blood Doll is not a way to gain sustaining pool fast enough. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > Name: Greater Purpose > Cardtype: Master > Put this card on a non-titled vampire you control. During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. Burn this card if this vampire becomes titled or calls a referendum. > > Game need: the card is here to help building viable mid-cap or high-cap vampires that don't belong to the trusting archetypes (such as high cap voters), for instance a POT / CEL combat deck, a Nosferatu bestial deck etc. Those deck can't use efficiently cards such as Villein, and Vessel or Blood Doll is not a way to gain sustaining pool fast enough. > I'm intrigued by the card, and wouldn't mind seeing something like it or close to it playtested, though I suspect it might need an extra restriction or two. I'm not sure it would help a big POT/CEL combat deck that much. While being faster than Blood Doll/Vessel but not a one-off like Villein which requires some careful thought when you want a bit of blood still around for paying costs, surviving hand damage (before you Taste, if you can), being able to deal with a surprise Target Vitals etc., it's still a master card, and the more rapid combat decks have to go quite low on master cards to avoid hand jam. Even with midbie and bigger vampires (rather than a swarm of 2-4 caps), multi-rush is a thing. So while it might work out better than Blood Doll, they still have potential trouble drawing into it. It strikes me as more likely, in its current form, to empower a bunch of non-political decks that are okay with steady pool gain. Any vampire who can hunt for two - either via a special, or via things like Harvest Rites - is an interesting choice for it. Despite the political restriction, I could, for example, see a Breed Boon deck with 2 caps - so especially Creation Rites - chucking in a couple of these and some Harvest Rites, maybe a Hungry Coyote. Legacy of Pander might do similar. The weenies don't have to have titles, and you wouldn't be crafting the deck to give them titles - and the chance of a cross-table title being granted is very limited. Maybe it should go on a unique vampire? Wouldn't help in the Legacy of Pander case, but that's possibly not essential. But I do think it's an interesting card. I'm just not sure it will help the decks you want in its current form. For aiding a mid-cap combat deck without the knock-ons elsewhere, I think it might be more interesting to see something that can be drawn and played with some regularity. Perhaps a tweaked rush action (with some requirements, and bearing in mind chump blockers can potentially disrupt it), that lets you move blood from the vampire to your pool at the end of the action, maybe? Perhaps something Street Cred-ish, but less frustrating.

Personally, I would like to see it be more distinct from Vessel / Blood Doll. Currently, it's like Vessel / Blood Doll but allows you to move 2 pool instead of 1 pool. :[ It has the bit about the titled / call referendum vamps, but something else would be nice. Maybe, "move half the blood from this vampire, rounded up, to your pool"? Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.

stick it on hesha ruhadze, and it cant be ripped away like blood dools with a vessel.

> Ankha wrote: > During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. > Nitpick: According to current card wording guidelines this should be "may" not "can"

> Blooded wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. > > > Nitpick: According to current card wording guidelines this should be "may" not "can" > Really? Could you give the reference of those guidelines? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > Blooded wrote: > > > > > Ankha wrote: > > > During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. > > > > > Nitpick: According to current card wording guidelines this should be "may" not "can" > > > Really? Could you give the reference of those guidelines? > Yup, read the cards and see the rulings. May has a ruled meaning, can does not

> Blooded wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > Blooded wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. > > > > > > > Nitpick: According to current card wording guidelines this should be "may" not "can" > > > > > Really? Could you give the reference of those guidelines? > > > Yup, read the cards and see the rulings. May has a ruled meaning, can does not > Once again, I'm interested in the references. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I love this card. It could be return of more mid-cap decks. It would replace the need to have govern the unaligned in every midcap deck. I would consider a cap of 3 per player or something, just to avoid abuse from breed-decks. Overkill is highly underrated. You know, like in computor games and such.

Greater Purpose + any hunt deck or weenie Sabbat deck with Hungry Coyote. If this card sees print, it will probably just be a complete replacement for those decks that still run blood doll. Seems like a power creep card to me.

> Ankha wrote: > > > Blooded wrote: > > > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blooded wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > During their master phase, this vampire's controller can move 2 blood from this vampire to their pool. > > > > > > > > > Nitpick: According to current card wording guidelines this should be "may" not "can" > > > > > > > Really? Could you give the reference of those guidelines? > > > > > > > > Yup, read the cards and see the rulings. May has a ruled meaning, can does not > > > Once again, I'm interested in the references. > I thought Blooded Sand was correct, but couldn't remember where I had seen the ruling... then I thought he was maybe misremembering your website ... but on that page you link to this ruling page here on VEKN, which says: > R0014 : May/Can > All 'may' are replaced by 'can'. ('May' shows permission, 'can' possibility & we need to use only one of them: unjustified alternances between 'may' and 'can' must be avoided). > Comment: Hugh: This is horsepoo. We should use 'may' it is way cooler > I personally think that 'may' would be better than 'can'. May implies voluntary action. Compare to 'must' which implies coercive action. Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.

> jblacey wrote: > Greater Purpose + any hunt deck or weenie Sabbat deck with Hungry Coyote. > > If this card sees print, it will probably just be a complete replacement for those decks that still run blood doll. Seems like a power creep card to me. > That could be a concern indeed. But 1/ Blood Dolls are scarce nowadays because of Vessel. Does a deck such as the one you describe with Blood Doll still exist? 2/ Blood Doll allows you to put back blood on the vampire, which is quite important. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > 2/ Blood Doll allows you to put back blood on the vampire, which is quite important. > Indeed. It is often the main reason for me to include blood doll/vessel in my decks. Bloating can be done with many different cards, getting blood to vampires (safely and reliably) is harder. Sometimes blood doll is used for bloating, but more crucially the other way around. I don't think I would use greater purpose in my decks as is. Not saying this limitation makes it bad, I'm saying it is not a direct replacement for blood doll/vessel. ps. If you really think moving 2 blood at once is important, you can put two blood dolls/vessels on same vampire.. pps. Vessel is also not an automatic replacement over blood doll. Even though better in the abstract, the fact that vessel costs pool and you cannot move blood to your pool with vessel on the turn it is played, makes vessel slightly dangerous for decks that tend to go to low pool in the early game before they 'stabilize'. An aggressive predator could deprive you the use of vessel, whereas you can always play blood doll. Blood doll basically has 2-turn headstart compared to vessel, but this is balanced with vessel being trifle and that it destroys blood dolls. Sometimes moving blood in untap phase is important also (for example infernal vampires) Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Ankha wrote: > 1/ Blood Dolls are scarce nowadays because of Vessel. Does a deck such as the one you describe with Blood Doll still exist? > Could be the metagame I play in, but even when Vessel gets played, my BDs rarely die. Either the Vessel is played cross-table or folks fail to declare the BD removal. I have no problem running 5 or 6 BDs with HC. In fact, my Inside Dirt deck does just that. It's been rather effective too. The inability to put blood back on vampires is a major drawback to this card. It will have is uses, for sure, but most of the time late-game BDs and Vessel push to vampires rather than take blood off because minion actions win games. I get the voting restrictions, but do you think the card wouldn't be played in a voting deck at all? What about breed-boon !Brujah or !Toreador decks? Those vampires gain votes from Foundation Exhibit and Unexpected Coalition. What about other crazy ways to get votes like Skaald or Bloodbath? Should the text be more: "If this vampire votes in a referendum, then burn this card."

> kschaefer wrote: > Could be the metagame I play in, but even when Vessel gets played, my BDs rarely die. Either the Vessel is played cross-table or folks fail to declare the BD removal. I have no problem running 5 or 6 BDs with HC. In fact, my Inside Dirt deck does just that. It's been rather effective too. > I agree. Blood dolls don't randomly die to vessels crosstable here either. > I get the voting restrictions, but do you think the card wouldn't be played in a voting deck at all? What about breed-boon !Brujah or !Toreador decks? Those vampires gain votes from Foundation Exhibit and Unexpected Coalition. What about other crazy ways to get votes like Skaald or Bloodbath? Should the text be more: "If this vampire votes in a referendum, then burn this card." > I'd imagine breeding decks running tribute to the master.. But not always. I'm somewhat hard-pressed imagining a deck that would want to run this... I guess the idea is midcap vampires that reliably refill their own blood in some way.. combat decks with taste of vitae maybe? Problem is, in combat decks putting blood back to the vampire is often a crucial option to have. Combat vampires often go low blood when their plan A is not working for one reason or another. Being forced to hunt while empty tends to lead to torpor. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

I don't understand why you guys are going on about breed decks. Why would this be any better in those than Villein or Tribute? Bleeders as well would use Villein or Blood Doll for versatility instead of Greater Purpose. The only place where this would find home in is a deck that regains blood in some quantities, as far as I can tell. Combo this with any of the following: Renewed Vigour Hunting Ground Owain Evans (or a similar effect) Rack Taste of Vitae ...or, well, you get the idea. Pump blood on guys to get them back to pool. In any other case Villein is better, because Greater Purpose isn't trifle. Blood doll gives blood back to vampires as well, as has been said, so that's going on for it. Vessel is one of the only effects that helps with Unlock phase damage. Villein is just good overall. Tribute works wonders with 6+ minions. I'm wondering if this'll just overpower Blood Doll, or is it sub par? "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Kraus wrote: > I don't understand why you guys are going on about breed decks. > Not focusing on them. Mentioned them to bring up the idea that most of those decks give votes to the weenies somehow. Ankha's no titles != no votes. I am just wondering whether cannot cast votes is a better restriction?

> Kraus wrote: > I don't understand why you guys are going on about breed decks. Why would this be any better in those than Villein or Tribute? > > Bleeders as well would use Villein or Blood Doll for versatility instead of Greater Purpose. > > The only place where this would find home in is a deck that regains blood in some quantities, as far as I can tell. Combo this with any of the following: > > Renewed Vigour > Hunting Ground > Owain Evans (or a similar effect) > Rack > Taste of Vitae > > ...or, well, you get the idea. Pump blood on guys to get them back to pool. In any other case Villein is better, because Greater Purpose isn't trifle. > > Blood doll gives blood back to vampires as well, as has been said, so that's going on for it. Vessel is one of the only effects that helps with Unlock phase damage. Villein is just good overall. Tribute works wonders with 6+ minions. > > I'm wondering if this'll just overpower Blood Doll, or is it sub par? > In a combat deck, I wouldn't play Blood Doll (too slow), Vessel (too costly), Villein (one-shot, can't take too much blood or your vampire doesn't have any blood left for combat), or Tribute (not enough minions). The idea is to give options to some decks that can't bloat at all (at the expense of blood). What was the last time you saw one of the following decks that didn't have a pool problem: a Nosferatu deck that is not a Royalty deck? A Miller deck ? A Renegade Garou deck ? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > In a combat deck, I wouldn't play Blood Doll (too slow), Vessel (too costly), Villein (one-shot, can't take too much blood or your vampire doesn't have any blood left for combat), or Tribute (not enough minions). > Grooming of the Protege? Can easily bring out weenie assistance or spin up the next combat vamp. Am I the only one that uses that card? I think it gets overlooked.

> In a combat deck, I wouldn't play Blood Doll (too slow), Vessel (too costly), Villein (one-shot, can't take too much blood or your vampire doesn't have any blood left for combat), or Tribute (not enough minions). > The idea is to give options to some decks that can't bloat at all (at the expense of blood). What was the last time you saw one of the following decks that didn't have a pool problem: a Nosferatu deck that is not a Royalty deck? A Miller deck ? A Renegade Garou deck ? > For sure. I've tried to play midcap combat toolboxes as well, or even pure combat decks, and if you're not playing multirush (and even if you are), Vessels are basically no-go, and blood dolls are just too slow. So they are. Your best bet is usually just trying to rush out enemy offense and then survive on speed and pool from oust. The thing is - does this card really address that issue that much better? Nosferatu suck because they have practically no ousting power whatsoever. For that I submitted some "guess card names and do pool damage" half a year ago. Survivability doesn't help you if you have no realistic means of ousting. We have this one guy here who's super wacky at deck building. He did a CEL deck based on Miller and his friends, based it on Flurry of Action, Majesty, Cel combat, Palla Grande and a decent amount of intercept. But I get your point. Thing really gave a lot of power to Gangrel and Renegade Garou. They would need survive options, but then again there are stuff they can use already in the card pool. I think I understand the niche you're trying to fill with the card. In all honesty this is the powerlevel that Villein should've been at (just add trifle) instead of what it is now. All I'm saying is that you're probably not really helping those most in need. Their problems are elsewhere. But then again, even if midcap toolboxes (tzimisce spring to mind) with bloodgain and block options get some more speed from this here, I wouldn't mind that either. You're not wrong with this card. And I definitely would not slam the restriction of burning it with votes, since those vote kick decks are few and far between, and far from problematic. More help for them? I'm all for it. Restricting it from titled vamps is a good idea. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Kraus wrote: > Nosferatu suck because they have practically no ousting power whatsoever. > 16 deep songs, fame? Maybe even army of rats, codex, etc. Nossies have animalism, and I think animalism offers plenty methods for ousting. Not as good as dominate but these methods exist. I think I'm focusing on nosferatu next.. But I guess the victory conditions will be very similar to my gangrel. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > > > Kraus wrote: > > Nosferatu suck because they have practically no ousting power whatsoever. > > > 16 deep songs, fame? Maybe even army of rats, codex, etc. Nossies have animalism, and I think animalism offers plenty methods for ousting. Not as good as dominate but these methods exist. > > I think I'm focusing on nosferatu next.. But I guess the victory conditions will be very similar to my gangrel. > Nos are substantially better equipped to not die than Gangrel, Ditto on winning. Both have builds that splash one of the other clans in clan discipline ( nos with Gangrel with ) to cover a weakness (Gangrel having an answer to S:CE that isn't a 3 pool retainer, nos prevent damage limited multiact) but fir obvious reasons Nosferatu get better vote capability due no not getting the non-cam treatment for ages, and because protean sucks as a combat discipline for offense since agg poke and spending blood like a drunk vampire mean you can't taste back like you would with punching hard and crows for 2. Obviously both can add dominate, but nos are sitting on a rich history of good cards from cam Ed through going oop, and Gangrel have less of a pool of good cards, and are hindered by protean. Anyway, this card could be helpful, especially to walls, mid cap animalism, and many shades of sabbat. It's potential to get out of hand is qutite adequately stiffled by it's mandatory 2 only going one way and it's vote n bloat restrictions. The only 2 archetype that get crazy support are blood brothers and 2 cap sabbat shenanigans (played against such a deck once, as Will Kristoff is the only person I've seen with such a thing) Basically, legacy of pander aside, blood brothers with harvest rites and slake the thirst become better. Stating that, any time we make a blood brothers strategy other than "walk of Caine with stealth" more viable, it feels like a good thing. Theoretically, blood brothers with Abbot and possibly atonement get help, and fighting builds become more resilient. Hungry coyote and harvest rites make the slake combo reliably generate enough beads to justify 4-5 copy inclusion in a deck, if that feels too out of hand, then add a sub type to this card of "blood doll"(so vessel and vassily can burn it) (Thematically, it would be good in a sabbat set if we get a physical printing of DM. Cam has too much in game support toward titles, anarchs do not typically exclude barons from stuff, and sabbat have more in line with support for random midcaps (hungry coyote, Abbot, etc) and bloodlines that get the most out of this are either sabbat { } Or the just eternally support starved gargoyles not named Tupdog.)

> Ankha wrote: > That could be a concern indeed. But > 1/ Blood Dolls are scarce nowadays because of Vessel. Does a deck such as the one you describe with Blood Doll still exist? > Yes, Blood Dolls exist, though they are on life support. They are more common than you might think. One of the biggest reasons is you can get a blood immediately from Blood Doll while you need to wait for Vessel. Speaking of which I would love to see the window of this card to take blood to change to the unlock phase to match Vessel. That would do more to differentiate this card from Blood Doll than the no vote restriction or the add blood back on ability. > 2/ Blood Doll allows you to put back blood on the vampire, which is quite important. > True, but in reality that happens less often unless you underestimate the blood expenditure/drain of the vampire. Maybe I am wierd but there are much more efficient ways to add blood back to vampires than Blood Doll in my experience.

> jblacey wrote: > Maybe I am wierd but there are much more efficient ways to add blood back to vampires than Blood Doll in my experience. > Such as? edit: There are more 'efficient' ways, but masters that do this tend to be unique and thus risk being contested (adding to the unreliability I talked about earlier) and non-masters tend to be discipline specific (voter captivation for example) or have other limitations (voter captivation requires you to succeed in a referendum by a big margin as an example). Blood doll and vessel are very reliable. Nobody's going to sudden intervene a vessel.. > ReverendRevolver wrote: > Gangrel having an answer to S:CE that isn't a 3 pool retainer > Dog pack costs 2 pool, not 3. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Life in the City, Perfectionist, The Coven and all sorts of Hunting Grounds are all actually really good ways of getting more blood. Blood Doll is fine too. Out of master cards those spring immediately to mind. Minion cards are trickier. Taste of Vitae isn't exactly reliable, nor is almost any combat method. Hunting is fine with non-blood intensive unlock modifiers. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

Abactor, Shaggy Dog, Rave, 5th Trad, Renewed Vigour, and many, many more

> Blooded wrote: > Shaggy Dog > You mean sheepdog . Not Shaggydog the vampire. Its what my Unnamed uses (because infernals ignore the drawback), but I also include vessels just in case because infernal. Thinking about this deck made me think about another drawback I hadn't thought before: sometimes I don't want to waste an action. There were versions of the deck where I didn't run sheepdog at all, only using vessels. This has to do with my Unnamed deck bloating like Donald Trump, so I have usually pool to spare. In this deck blood usually goes in Unnameds direction via vessel (Greater curse bleed costs 1 blood and bloats 3 pool. Do the math). I've started trying to use restoration in some of my decks, usually to counteract the usage of freak drives. Jury is out still. Its probably ok but makes the deck kinda clunky. Sometimes there is a high-intercept wall and you don't wanna collide your low blood vampire to it. There is also the case where a combat deck torporizes your vampire at 0 blood, he/she is saved and then is forced to hunt empty, In this case you would love to have blood doll/vessel already on/life in the city rather than an action card you cannot use (unless you had both) Hunting grounds are unique like I mentioned before. Just last tournament my Matasuntha deck would've contested zoo hunting ground with Stanislava, but I obviously chose not to contest cross-table. Still, my hunting ground was useless. Even in the case of hunting ground, I think that bloating engine of hunting ground+blood doll is perfectly fine to have. I don't think blood dolls/vessels are ever truly superfluous. Perfectionist is a really good one too, since it turns hunting into a gain of 2 blood. Just have to remember to use it since the rules are kinda unforgiving.. Also sometimes its not an option (my Matasuntha wants to run monster as an archetype for example) Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Those blood cards that Blooded Sand mentioned I left out intentionally, because they are more conditional. Blood Dolls and all those other neat tools are usable by everyone. Add a salubri and you're good to go for Renewed vigour, and you won't see Sheepdog played outside of infernals, but those require specific deck building. > Even in the case of hunting ground, I think that bloating engine of hunting ground+blood doll is perfectly fine to have. I don't think blood dolls/vessels are ever truly superfluous. > It is. It's not bad. Blood Doll makes for a versatile tool. But it IS slower than Villein + HG. Contesting a Hunting Ground is a once in a life time experience, really. Be proud that you lived old enough to witness such a miracle. > Perfectionist is a really good one too, since it turns hunting into a gain of 2 blood. Just have to remember to use it since the rules are kinda unforgiving.. Also sometimes its not an option (my Matasuntha wants to run monster as an archetype for example) > It is always an option, but you said it: wants to run Monster instead. I'm sure you have other ways of getting the blood back. Enter: all the other cards. Blood Doll is AN option if you want a versatile pool/blood management tool. There are better ways of getting blood though, if you want strictly just blood. Oh yeah, and one more thing about some older posts: that Nosferatu have animalism does not make midcap or weenie nosferatu great. Animalism is great. Nosferatu aren't. Nossies and Gangrel are both equally good at animalism shenanigans, with few twists here and there to a direction or another. I'd argue Thing makes the Gangrel variant better. But, then again, it's kind of a moot point, since it's animalism that's doing the heavy lifting. Gangrel have fortitude which actually amounts to something when considering oust potential. Multiact for tool up and Force of Will are a thing. Nossies have nothing. Spying Mission alone isn't great. I retain my opinion that Greater Purpose isn't going to help combat decks as such, but mid cap tool boxes, and mostly those with greater blood generation, a slower playstyle and plenty of blocking capabilities. And if that's what you'd like to enforce, it's great. It won't fit into a proactive, combat heavy rush deck though, and won't give Nosferatus any sort of a greater purpose. Krausedit\\ Not related, it is true that the hunting mechanisms could be further explored. I'm still so sad that Loki's Gift doesn't hunt the blood off of a target, but just burns one blood. Hungry Coyote plus Feeding Razor would make for a super interesting multi purpose tool if Loki's Gift took 3 blood from the target instead of 1! ;__; "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Bloodartist wrote: > Such as? > I don't need to necessarily reply to this with all the options, but I feel that it worth pointing out always having hunting (as a noncard option) means gaining blood can be inconvenient but usually not difficult option to gain blood. > Blood doll and vessel are very reliable. Nobody's going to sudden intervene a vessel.. > Seen it happen, multiple times... That said, If the goal is to help out midcap rush combat decks, then the bigger issue is that they need more reliable ways to deal with action negative aspect of playing rush cards while devoting a large percentage of their deck to combat cards and still have a effective mechanism to outst their prey (other than a dependency on Fame).

> jblacey wrote: > I don't need to necessarily reply to this with all the options, but I feel that it worth pointing out always having hunting (as a noncard option) means gaining blood can be inconvenient but usually not difficult option to gain blood. > Hunting while (near) empty can lead to disaster against intercept.. Again, I'm looking for reliability in blood economy. I don't know how things are over there but here there is a decent amount of intercept floating around. > That said, If the goal is to help out midcap rush combat decks, then the bigger issue is that they need more reliable ways to deal with action negative aspect of playing rush cards while devoting a large percentage of their deck to combat cards and still have a effective mechanism to oust their prey (other than a dependency on Fame). > Not counting dragonbound, I feel that too many wincon cards are masters in combat decks.. Making deck construction challenging. Maybe we should pay attention to non-master victory conditions for midcap combat decks.. Or untapping after rushes if you consider being "action negative" a problem. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > Hunting while (near) empty can lead to disaster against intercept.. Again, I'm looking for reliability in blood economy. I don't know how things are over there but here there is a decent amount of intercept floating around. > We are combat heavy and there is usually at least one intercept deck at every table. At my last table, every single player at the table had intercept. However, I think you are completely missing the point. For a combat deck, getting into combat is generally going to cost me a card. If I hunt and someone blocks me... I usually thank them because they just saved me a card. Actions that don't cost me a card (or a master phase action) are extremely powerful effect for combat decks. Arguably, the most powerful effect they can have. > Not counting dragonbound, I feel that too many wincon cards are masters in combat decks.. Making deck construction challenging. Maybe we should pay attention to non-master victory conditions for midcap combat decks.. Or untapping after rushes if you consider being "action negative" a problem. > I agree. Master dependency is a real problem for combat decks. Too many decks are dependent on Fame. There are some options for deck construction to minimize this problem, but not every clan can compensate. Having access to low blood cost combat cards like Animalism is a huge boon. Animalism also has the benefit of dealing with action negative cards by providing cheap unlock and intercept options. See Target Vitals for another powerful combat card without blood cost. Intercept decks in particular work well with the idea that blocking an opposing minion is often action positive by saving you a minion phase action as long as it furthers your game plan of ousting your prey, such as with Smiling Jack (another Master).