Tremere! Black Hand

Hi... Searching for ideas because i want to do a deck with tremere! Black Hand mixed with normal Sabbat Tremere! Group 4-5. This is the initial idea which i started, but i didn't like at all, i feel like is not going to make any single point. Any ideas how to make the deck more focused?? i like that the idea of make a Bleed And Bruise Deck, a more balanced ToolBox or Block and Combat... Any ideas will be lovely received, thanks!! Deck Name: Black Hand Tremere! (copy) Author: AWV Description: I dont know what i'm doing Crypt (13 cards; Capacity min=4 max=7 avg=5.5) ================== 1x Frere Marc 6 aus for PRO THA Gangrel antitribu:4 1x Frondator 5 dom tha AUS Tremere antitribu:4 3x Gerald FitzGerald 7 AUS DOM THA Tremere antitribu:5 1x Johannes Worringen 6 dom AUS THA Tremere antitribu:5 1x Antonio d'Erlette 5 dom for pot THA Tremere antitribu:4 1x Mosfair 4 cel dom tha Tremere antitribu:4 1x Nickolai, The Survivor 6 aus dom pot pre tha vic Tremere antitribu:4 2x Ash Harrison 7 cel dom AUS THA Tremere antitribu:5 1x Aaron Bathurst 4 for obf pot Nosferatu antitribu:4 1x Carmen 5 aus dom THA Tremere antitribu:5 Library: 85 cards Master (15 cards) ================== 1x Hungry Coyote, The 1x Metro Underground 1x Rotschreck 1x Thaumaturgy 1x University Hunting Ground 5x Vessel 3x Villein 1x Watchtower: Four Ride Forth 1x Weeping Stone Action (19 cards) ================== 4x Govern the Unaligned 3x Recure of the Homeland 4x Reunion Kamut 2x Rutor's Hand 1x Sunrise Service 1x Tattoo Signal 2x Under Siege 2x Abbot Action Modifier (7 cards) ================== 5x Mirror Walk 2x Bonding Combat (32 cards) ================== 6x Apportation 6x Rego Motus 6x Telepathic Tracking 10x Theft of Vitae 2x Walk of Flame 2x Wind Dance Equipment (6 cards) ================== 1x Flaming Candle 1x Guarded Rubrics 2x IR Goggles 1x Ivory Bow 1x Ruins of Ceoris Reaction (6 cards) ================== 3x Eyes of Argus 3x On the Qui Vive

I've been toying with Black Hand/Under Siege, too. I think the permanents or semi-permanents allow for very toolbox designs. Not sure what your metagame is like, but here are a few thoughts: You only have two vampires that can play Under Seige. Consider Jefferson Foster or Polly Kay Fisher to up the titles to make US a more reliable play. Aaron Bathhurst is supposed to be someone else or simply removed. Hungry Coyote with all that Theft of Vitae? Seems like two pool you'd rather put elsewhere like a Guardian Angel for some permanent prevent. No Remover? No Pentex Subversion? Do you expect to be in torpor and if so, do you not expect Recure to be blocked? That card is cool in theory, but never seems to make the cut. Not sure about the rest of the actions, but I'm trying not to turn this into the deck I've built. You only have two post-declaration pieces of bleed boost and what you do have is Bonding. This package needs more punch. If you can get one bleed through in a turn, you want it to be for more than two. Seduction to help these hit more frequently? Is Mirror Walks stealth enough for your meta? With the combat, you have I'm not sure I'd expect you to use the cancel combat effect, making Seduction even more useful in case of bounced bleeds. What's combat like in you area? This package seems too large for a deck without rushes and Fames. I'd cut the TT and Walk of Flame. Your focus on BH vampires makes Psychic Assault (unpreventable when played by BH), a nice punch on top of the Thefts. I'd expect to want fewer "good" combats than you. This deck needs to survive and occasionally punish, but this package is just too large. For the equipment consider Codex of Edenic Groundskeepers. You're not really doing stealth anyway. This reaction package needs bleed bounce. You have access to both disciplines for it. I'd prefer a mix of Murmur (depending on the average cap in your meta), Deflection, MEE, and TM.

Very quickly: I've been doing some tests with black hands recently, and found out Drop Point Network is INSAAAANE!! Add one. Or two. I went for two in my latest iteration. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

Are you using unlock tricks to get multiple uses per turn or is it good enough even once a turn?

Ugh, realized I was thinking Census Taker when I asked my question. So, for DPN how many times do you typically get to use it per game. What types of things are you searching for?

I'm playing 70-80 card decks, or aim for those numbers. The fun part is that it doesn't matter if you draw it late or early, it gives roughly the equal amount of value and uses anyways. So, I'd say realistically (depending on your cycle) you get 6-7 tutors per game? With the maximum of 10-11 of course, but at that time you're depleted of your deck anyways and the tutor effect isn't useful anymore. For JUST the right combat card, the ousting Conditioning or saving bounce, it's totally worth it. Just a better Barrens, in a sense. Combos nicely with Barrens as well though. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

Kraus and kschaefer, either you two are misunderstanding something or I am. DPN doesn't have any "put this card in play" text...

No, you're right. I should have refreshed the text in my mind before asking my question. Yeah, it's a use once, which is probably why I've never used it in a deck.

> Kushiel wrote: > Kraus and kschaefer, either you two are misunderstanding something or I am. DPN doesn't have any "put this card in play" text... > Dear god, the whole world as I know it has been playing this card wrong for the time I've known. //facepalm to the max Nevermind, carry on. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Kraus wrote: > > > Kushiel wrote: > > Kraus and kschaefer, either you two are misunderstanding something or I am. DPN doesn't have any "put this card in play" text... > > > Dear god, the whole world as I know it has been playing this card wrong for the time I've known. > > //facepalm to the max > > Nevermind, carry on. > Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Kraus wrote: > > > Kushiel wrote: > > Kraus and kschaefer, either you two are misunderstanding something or I am. DPN doesn't have any "put this card in play" text... > > > Dear god, the whole world as I know it has been playing this card wrong for the time I've known. > > //facepalm to the max > > Nevermind, carry on. > I'm with Ankha on this one... In any case, I've used DPN (correctly!) in a couple of decks. It's...decent? Not amazing, but useful. I found it best in decks that are combo-heavy, to ensure I could get a combo part that I needed most, but it was reasonably useful in other decks as well.

Finaly i get a new versión of the deck... What do you guys think about now?? what you will change?? Deck Name: Black Hand Tremere! Author: AWV Description: I don't Know What i'm doing ! Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=4 max=7 avg=5.625) ================== 1x Frondator 5 dom tha AUS Tremere antitribu:4 3x Gerald FitzGerald 7 AUS DOM THA Tremere antitribu:5 1x Johannes Worringen 6 dom AUS THA Tremere antitribu:5 1x Antonio d'Erlette 5 dom for pot THA Tremere antitribu:4 1x Mosfair 4 cel dom tha Tremere antitribu:4 1x Nickolai, The Survivor 6 aus dom pot pre tha vic Tremere antitribu:4 2x Ash Harrison 7 cel dom AUS THA Tremere antitribu:5 2x Carmen 5 aus dom THA Tremere antitribu:5 Library: 90 cards Master (13 cards) ================== 1x Infernal Pact 1x Auspex 1x Thaumaturgy 5x Tribute to the Master 1x University Hunting Ground 2x Wash 1x Watchtower: Four Ride Forth 1x Weeping Stone Action (10 cards) ================== 5x Govern the Unaligned 5x Reunion Kamut Action Modifier (13 cards) ================== 6x Mirror Walk 4x Bonding 3x Conditioning Combat (35 cards) ================== 5x Apportation 6x Psychic Assault 5x Rego Motus 5x Target Vitals 7x Telepathic Tracking 7x Theft of Vitae Equipment (7 cards) ================== 1x Guarded Rubrics 1x Ivory Bow 3x Light Intensifying Goggles 1x Ruins of Ceoris 1x Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers Reaction (12 cards) ================== 2x Eyes of Argus 2x On the Qui Vive 4x Telepathic Misdirection 4x Deflection

You need to put in at least 1 Shakar: the Hunt 4 Hand Contract or your hand may be clogged by combat. Bowl of Convergence is also too good to be left out. Some vote defense, at least couple delaying tactics or poison pills are essential. Don't know what to remove, thou... Some combat to straight 1/3 ratio? NC Russia