Shoulder Drop

I am interested in what is the right moment to play this card and at what stage the damage is being applied. Example: vampire A in combat with vampire B, vampire A have 2 blood vampire B 1 blood. Before range vampire A play Drawing out the Beast. strike phase close range,both declare HS, vampire A from 1, vampire B for 2. both now on 0 blood. Vampire B play Shoulder Drop(Q1: is that right moment to play this card?). Vampire A goes to torpor. Q2: does vampire B take dmg from Drawing superior efect? Drawing Out the Beast Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Animalism Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Frenzy. [ani] During this combat, opposing vampire gets +1 strength, but he or she cannot use maneuvers to maneuver to long range, cannot use presses to end combat and cannot use equipment. A vampire may play only one Drawing Out the Beast each combat. [ANI] As above, and the opposing vampire takes 1 unpreventable damage during the press step each round. Shoulder Drop Cardtype: Combat Grapple. Play when you successfully inflict damage from a hand strike. After strike resolution, if this minion is still ready, the opposing minion takes 1 additional damage. The opposing minion cannot press this round. A minion may play only one Shoulder Drop each strike. Artist: Efrem Palacios

I'm not the rules coordinator, but it seems clear to me from the text of Shoulder Drop that you have the timing of Shoulder Drop right and that combat ends before the press step (since Vampire A goes to torpor) so Vamp B does not take damage from Drawing out the Beast. So my answer to Q1 is yes and my answer to Q2 is no. Merry Christmas!

> beslin wrote: > I am interested in what is the right moment to play this card and at what stage the damage is being applied. > You must play the card right after your strike has inflicted damage. The damage from the Shoulder Drop kicks in after the pair of strikes have been resolved. This happens before any other pairs of strike (in case of additional strikes), and before the press step. > beslin wrote: > Example: vampire A in combat with vampire B, vampire A have 2 blood vampire B 1 blood. Before range vampire A play Drawing out the Beast. strike phase close range,both declare HS, vampire A from 1, vampire B for 2. both now on 0 blood. Vampire B play Shoulder Drop(Q1: is that right moment to play this card?). > B has to play it after A burns its blood to damage, but before B burns blood to damage or prevent the damage. during the "heal damage" step (because only then the damage is "successfully" inflicted. > beslin wrote: > Vampire A goes to torpor. Q2: does vampire B take dmg from Drawing superior efect? > The damage from Shoulder Drop is applied once the pair of strikes have been resolved. Combat ends because A is no longer ready, before reaching the press step. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > beslin wrote: > > I am interested in what is the right moment to play this card and at what stage the damage is being applied. > > > You must play the card right after your strike has inflicted damage. The damage from the Shoulder Drop kicks in after the pair of strikes have been resolved. This happens before any other pairs of strike (in case of additional strikes), and before the press step. > > > beslin wrote: > > Example: vampire A in combat with vampire B, vampire A have 2 blood vampire B 1 blood. Before range vampire A play Drawing out the Beast. strike phase close range,both declare HS, vampire A from 1, vampire B for 2. both now on 0 blood. Vampire B play Shoulder Drop(Q1: is that right moment to play this card?). > > > B has to play it after A burns its blood to damage, but before B burns blood to damage or prevent the damage. > > > beslin wrote: > > Vampire A goes to torpor. Q2: does vampire B take dmg from Drawing superior efect? > > > The damage from Shoulder Drop is applied once the pair of strikes have been resolved. Combat ends because A is no longer ready, before reaching the press step. > I think Ankha left out the word "successfully" in the first sentence of his answer to Q1. The damage must have been successfully inflicted (not dodged or prevented) on Vamp A for Vamp B to then play Shoulder Drop.

Yes, that is the cardtext. The question was about the timing. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > B has to play it after A burns its blood to damage, but before B burns blood to damage or prevent the damage. > What does that mean? Isn't damage resolution simultaneous for both vampires?

> Ankha wrote: > You must play the card right after your strike has inflicted damage. > When is damage "inflicted" exactly? According to the rulebook, successfully inflicting damage happens after any damage prevention but before the damage is healed. Would one play Shoulder Drop after damage prevention (if any) but before additional strikes (if any)? If there are no damage prevention and additional strikes, would it be played after choosing the strike but before healing the damage? > B has to play it after A burns its blood to damage, but before B burns blood to damage or prevent the damage. > According to the rulebook, A and B resolve strikes simultaneously. However, your reply indicates that damage prevention and healing damage are done non-simultaneously, with the acting minion getting the opportunity to prevent damage and heal damage before the non-acting minion. Is this true?

> Non-existant user wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > B has to play it after A burns its blood to damage, but before B burns blood to damage or prevent the damage. > > > What does that mean? Isn't damage resolution simultaneous for both vampires? > Indeed. Preventing damage uses the impulse, but when both combatant passes (no more prevent cards played), the damage is successfully inflicted on both vampires simultaneously during the "heal damage" step. That's when Shoulder Drop should be played (using the impulse). Please disregard my previous comment on B playing Should Drop before preventing damage. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > You must play the card right after your strike has inflicted damage. > > > When is damage "inflicted" exactly? > Damage is inflicted when the strike resolves, for instance (and there is X damage waiting to be prevented or successfully inflicted). Damage is successfully inflicted when it's not prevented, that is during the "heal damage" step. See rulebook 6.4.6. Damage Resolution. > TwoRazorReign wrote: > According to the rulebook, successfully inflicting damage happens after any damage prevention but before the damage is healed. Would one play Shoulder Drop after damage prevention (if any) but before additional strikes (if any)? Should Drop must be played when the damage has been successfully inflicted, that is during the "heal damage" step (following the impulse rule). > > > TwoRazorReign wrote: > > If there are no damage prevention and additional strikes, would it be played after choosing the strike but before healing the damage? > > > Before any additional strikes. > > > TwoRazorReign wrote: > > > > > B has to play it after A burns its blood to damage, but before B burns blood to damage or prevent the damage. > > > > > > > > > That is a mistake. B can play the card only after both combatant have passed the impulse during the "prevent damage" step (since A could prevent more damage after B has prevented some damage). > > > TwoRazorReign wrote: > > According to the rulebook, A and B resolve strikes simultaneously. However, your reply indicates that damage prevention and healing damage are done non-simultaneously, with the acting minion getting the opportunity to prevent damage and heal damage before the non-acting minion. Is this true? > > > That's true: "prevent damage" and "heal damage" are two consecutive steps. Each of them use the impulse. > Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director