Submission: Dennis Maxwell

Name: Dennis Maxwell Cardtype: Ally Cost: 3 pool Capacity: NA Discipline: NA Clan: NA Unique wraith with 3 life, 1 strength, 1 bleed. Red List. Dennis is immune to damage that is not aggravated. Dennis can give you control of an ally as a action. Dennis may put 3 minion cards from your ash pile into your library as a +1 stealth action (shuffle afterwards). Art notes: His face is covered by a fedora. He wears a long coat and underneath it you can see a pinstripe suit. World of Darkness reference: Dennis "The Carpenter" Maxwell. He is an occasional antagonist for vampires, hunters, and mummies. He was the main villain of the Hunter: The Reckoning console game. whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Maxwell_Carpenter How does this card address a compelling game need?: Recursion is a desirable mechanic when it used to fill out decks that have limited card slots. Dennis very specifically does not have a clan requirement so that it is available to multiple decks. It excludes master cards and events because the recursion effect is so powerful. Update: November 14th Okay, after a round of testing... here are some changes. Dennis Maxwell 3 Unique wraith with 2 life, 1 strength, 1 bleed. Red List. Dennis is immune to damage that is not aggravated. Dennis may put 3 minion cards from your ash pile into your library (shuffle afterwards) as an action. Reasons 1) Life was changed from 3 life to 2 life, so that a single combat card that does 2 aggravated damage can kill Dennis with one strike. 2) The first ability was dropped because even though it was thematic for a wraith that masqueraded as a hunter for years... ultimately, it is not the important part of the card. Puppeteer (Wraith) already exists, no reason to remake it. 3) Stealth was dropped from Dennis's ability. People were concerned that the recursion effect was too powerful. Now the action can be blocked without the need for intercept. Update: November 20th Dennis "Carpenter 169" Maxwell 1 Unique Wraith with 1 life. Dennis is immune to damage that is not aggravated. If Dennis would be burned you may instead put him on another ready minion you control. The attached minion has +1 strength and once per combat may play a combat card from your ash heap as if it was in your hand, afterwards remove that combat card from the game.

Great! It costs exactly the pool you gain from a liquidation or ashur tablets... we're lucky nobody plays that cards too much.. . Otherwise it would be a no requirement sudario refraction with 1 bleed... Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

> thelonius wrote: > Great! It costs exactly the pool you gain from a liquidation or ashur tablets... we're lucky nobody plays that cards too much.. . Otherwise it would be a no requirement sudario refraction with 1 bleed... > Minion cards are library cards other than Master cards or events. Sorry, you can't get Master cards back with the recursion.

Please make this card, my al-mun recursing Temporis toolbox will love having him around. It basically says Tap and draw 3 cards at +1 stealth once you have managed to dunk your library

> jblacey wrote: > > > thelonius wrote: > > Great! It costs exactly the pool you gain from a liquidation or ashur tablets... we're lucky nobody plays that cards too much.. . Otherwise it would be a no requirement sudario refraction with 1 bleed... > > > Minion cards are library cards other than Master cards or events. Sorry, you can't get Master cards back with the recursion. > My point is that having no requirements give a lot of deck a "free" recursion (since the cost of the ally is exactly the pool gain from 2 abused cards like the two I mentioned before) that was exclusive for clan Giovanni (necromancy and sudario) and that recursion has also a bleed for 1 Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

> jblacey wrote: > How does this card address a compelling game need?: He is a mechanic to allow recursion of minion cards into your library. > Is that a compelling game need? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > jblacey wrote: > > How does this card address a compelling game need?: He is a mechanic to allow recursion of minion cards into your library. > > > Is that a compelling game need? > This is not a compelling game need. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> thelonius wrote: > point is that having no requirements give a lot of deck a "free" recursion (since the cost of the ally is exactly the pool gain from 2 abused cards like the two I mentioned before) that was exclusive for clan Giovanni (necromancy and sudario) and that recursion has also a bleed for 1 > 1) It is not free. It is an action which can be blocked. In fact, I am dropping the +1 stealth on the action. 2) The cost is relative. Waste Management Operation is considered unplayable. It is 1 pool for 1 card recycled into your deck every turn; any card... even master cards. My thought was 3 pool for 3 cards, might be reasonable. bottom of the library or shuffled in the deck is about the same to me. 3) Wraiths should not be Giovanni only. It makes less sense for Dennis to require Giovanni, since they killed his original mortal body. Dennis hates the Giovanni. He wasn't brought back by necromancy either. He is a wraith that exists in both realms. He was created using Wraith: The Oblivion. 4) Let's compare Dennis with Tye Cooper . A card that I have never seen anyone play. Same Both Tye and Dennis are 3 pool cost wraiths. Both are immune to non-aggravated damage. Both have 1 bleed. Differences Tye has 0 strength and 1 life. Dennis has 1 strength and 3 life. (soon 2 life) Tye can burn a non-ready minion with a action. Dennis has a steal ally ability as a action. Tye puts a card from your ash pile into your hand if his action is successful. Dennis has a separate action to put cards back into your library. Tye requires clan Giovanni, one of the biggest reasons why he never saw play. Dennis has no clan requirement, any deck can run him.

> Ankha wrote: > Is that a compelling game need? > A non-clan specific recursion mechanic that doesn't recycle abused master cards... yes, that is extremely compelling. A combat deck can put combat cards back into their deck so they don't have to devote 50% to red cards. A vote deck can put vote cards back into their deck, so they don't have to allocate 10 slots to KRC. An intercept combat deck can put less intercept cards into their deck and more actions so they can be more proactive. Recursion as a whole is one of the more requested effects in the game, but I don't want to make it without cost. It is unique, not free, and it's card selection is narrow to minion cards. Would you like to see it more narrow than that? I am open to suggestions.

> Kraus wrote: > This is not a compelling game need. > I politely, but vehemently disagree.

Updated version. Dennis Maxwell 3 Unique wraith with 2 life, 1 strength, 1 bleed. Red List. Dennis is immune to damage that is not aggravated. Dennis may put 3 minion cards from your ash pile into your library (shuffle afterwards) as an action. Here are some of the things I am still trying to work out: 1) The pool cost. Is 3 pool too much or too little. 2) life, strength, bleed numbers. 3) Is Red List necessary? Thematically Dennis is disliked by most supernatural, especially Mummies, Vampires (Giovanni) and Hunters. Dennis nearly prevent the ability for all mummies to reincarnate. Giovanni want him dead on sight. Hunters lost so many people trying to kill him. 4) Minion cards narrow enough or maybe "action cards or combat cards"? 5) Is the 3 the correct number of cards? All of these things are still being worked out.

Focus less on recursion. Carpenter in the YotS books offer plenty of awesome, video games version asthetics are sweet. But in books he animates zombies, has a wyrm tainted agg inflicting straight razor he found in the underworld, manipulates imbued, mentally repels vampires (Beckett even) from a block sized area, and wages war with an Amenti in addition to killing a Giovanni. Why focus on something as hard to keep from overpowered as recursion?

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > Focus less on recursion. Carpenter in the YotS books offer plenty of awesome, video games version asthetics are sweet. > But in books he animates zombies, has a wyrm tainted agg inflicting straight razor he found in the underworld, manipulates imbued, mentally repels vampires (Beckett even) from a block sized area, and wages war with an Amenti in addition to killing a Giovanni. Why focus on something as hard to keep from overpowered as recursion? > That is completely fair. I am not trying to underplay the thematic. This was a very flavorful character and I would like to capture that in the card. In fact, it might be worth adding "Carpenter" to the name. Part of thematic of the card (to me) was because he stole the Heart of Osiris and could pull things back from the underworld. I am open to suggestions.

He only has the heart for a bit though, other things he has through the series and the razor even through his harrowing after the heart isn't his. He culled some imbued quite well without the heart. Recursion is a hot button, so I think even too much not-recursion is easier to justify. Inflicting agg, recruiting zombies for 1 pool and no life, and even a self shuffle for like 4 pool is less touchy than recursion.

Idea with controversy: Dennis "Carpenter 169" Maxwell Imbued 5 life Group 6 Creed n/a(risen) Dennis cannot gain conviction. If he becomes incapacitated, move him and all equipment on him to your uncontrolled region. He may play cards requiring [for] [cel] [pot] [nec] and or [thn] as a 5 capacity vampire. I know, just said avoid controversy, but thematically this is the coolest imbued we can have.....

Changing the card type from to but I feel this captures the intent better than the original card. Tell me what you think about this... Dennis "Carpenter 169" Maxwell 1 Unique Wraith with 1 life. Dennis is immune to damage that is not aggravated. If Dennis would be burned you may instead put him on another ready minion you control. The attached minion has +1 strength and once per combat may play a combat card from your ash heap as if it was in your hand, afterwards remove that combat card from the game.

I feel like you've designed a reasonable card but I'm not sure it makes sense with Carpenter anymore. Seems like a good card, but I'm just no longer sure it seems like the most widely used Risen in WoD Canon.