!Nos Vote n Reduce madness

Been ages since I scribbled up a deck. This is attempting the ridiculous: !Nos vote w/ combat and high/mid cap bleed reduce package. Group 2/3 has weird aus availability, wanted to test a Dummy Corp, Confusion of the Eye & Telepathic Counter package. Weak vote is to mainly curry 2nd fiddle vote favor to bloat and table whittle. Attempts to avoid table hate. 1. How do you oust? Weak. Mid- to late-game deck. Spying Missions, Finding the Path, and general attrition. Could use bleed boost permanents, like Laptop, Phone, or Tier of Souls. I'm thinking around 2-3, and wondering what to trim. 2. How do you survive? Bleed reduce & vote bloat. Reduce is 21 pool at best, and one untapped big cap can cover a bleed for 4 with Dummy, CotE, & TC. Vote bloat is Finding the Path & Bribes, around 15 pool at best. Black Forest Base & Nos Kingdom as tangential bloat. Vote defense is middling with titles and CotE. Combat is also middling. Unlock reaction is 10 cards at best, so quite solid. 3. Ideal board presence? One big cap (9+), one mid cap (5+), and a go-fer (fetch minion) or two. Likely two will have to hold ground until mid-game. 4. Average turn? Finding, Ani Mag, & Bribes, or Spying Mission & hunt setup. Wait patiently to reduce or opportunistically combat. Avoid table hate with low profile. Deck Name: !Nos Find the Paths Author: Azel Description: !Nos vote Finding the Path, Ani Mag & Bribes. Curious experimental high/mid cap reduce package. Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=10) ================== 2x Kendrick 7 aus obf ANI POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 1x Shannon Price 3 ani obf Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Yong-Sun (ADV) 10 aus ANI OBF POT THA Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Aeron 9 aus pro ANI OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:3 1x Calebos 8 cel ANI OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Christanius Lionel 6 pot ANI OBF Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Cicatriz 5 ani obf pot Nosferatu antitribu:2 Library: 80 cards Master (14 cards) ================== 4x Life in the City 1x Nosferatu Kingdom 2x Obfuscate 1x Purchase Pact 1x Black Forest Base 1x Communal Haven: Temple 4x Dummy Corporation Action (1 cards) ================== 1x Conceal Action Modifier (15 cards) ================== 3x Animal Magnetism 5x Spying Mission 7x Bribes Action Modifier/Combat (3 cards) ================== 3x Shadow Boxing Political Action (8 cards) ================== 8x Finding the Path Combat (16 cards) ================== 3x Thrown Sewer Lid 5x Aid from Bats 8x Carrion Crows Reaction (23 cards) ================== 1x Fillip 2x On the Qui Vive 4x Rat's Warning 6x Telepathic Counter 3x Cats' Guidance 7x Confusion of the Eye

My rule for skill cards is add up the number of distinct crypt members you want to upgrade, divide by 2, round .5 down. So, that would be 1x Obfuscate. Though, upgrading Auspex seems way more important to me. Legendary Vampire is an option, of course, but Powerbase: Madrid seems the most fitting change. Finding the Path is not only rather weak but gets just ridiculous when you Bribes it. I would at least run Anarchist Uprising and Ancilla Empowerment as devastation every right-thinking Meth could get behind. Con Boon prevents death, unless people constantly Delay it. Need some other offense. Plus, would likely want at least 12 votes, I'd probably end up with around 14 for a "no, really, this is a vote deck" vote deck. Black Forest Base only exacerbates offense problems in certain matchups. In terms of what isn't pulling the weight, inferior TC just doesn't seem like it does enough for the number of slots it's eating. From a holistic card type distribution standpoint, the reactions and combat seem high. Now, a different view would be to think of the deck as a "no, this really isn't a vote deck, it just has votes" non-vote deck where you play a game of casual defense until the moment you ... um ... win. In which case, TC for one is kind of amusing, but FtP is still not remotely enough damage. But, it would be boring to change the offense to bleed. In general, I'd look for crypt acceleration. The problem with the metagame still seems to be tons of giant dudes who may end up Banishmenting you or otherwise preventing you from getting enough minions out to be a serious threat. What about filling the crypt out with BH and using BH bleed reduction? Creation Rites is another path, that would synergize with more Con Boons and not so much with more AE/AU. Isn't every deck better with Couriers? Traveller Card Game

> Azel wrote: > 4x Dummy Corporation > Be careful not to rely too much on this card: it's on the watch list because of its power level. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Dummy Corp is on the watch list because of its power level? You've got to be kidding! What sort of deck madness did I miss out on in the intervening years? I love me some sarcasm.

Thanks for the Master Discipline ratio! That's great stuff. I am getting 5 vampires for 2.5, round .5 down, to 2 OBF in my math, though. Maybe I am giving the wrong impression of a more serious vote deck? I am thinking of Kendrick & Cicatriz at least because of CotE cap-size increase & Spying Mission, (and even Shannon with OBF Spying is solid). Do you actually see voting potential in this crypt for something more aggressive? I'd trust your opinion on that. I thought I'd be lucky to parley FtP & Bribes for a weird non-PRE vote bloat module experiment. Basically these are the two main experiments: Oportunistic non-PRE, non-breed, vote bloat, and Big cap obf & aus bleed reduce. A lot of non-bounce clans can access these, as it'd be big caps & basic (often unused spare) disciplines at most. It's exploring how it may free up Master slots from standard Master bloat. Yes, it's weird and crazy, but VTES community evolves glacially, so might as well explore laterally while waiting. !Nos is a lower tier clan yet has some interesting flexible strengths for this experiment. It can combat, intercept, and deliver packages with equanimity. I don't know where I should focus first, but I think I will try your advice for a more aggresive vote version. It's funny you should mention BH Truth in Ink bleed reduce. My first version was a different crypt interested in doing a thematic exploration of Hand Intervention, Deploy the Hand, and Truth in Ink + CotE + Dummy bleed reduce. I just doubted I could juggle all that aggression and decided on these two experiments instead -- they are also more democratizable experiment results as we wait for disciplineless bounce.

As I understand, you can have one creative thing in a deck, but more than that will not work. FtP is an interesting card, cause it's kind of arithmetically better, than KRC (5 pool table swing vs 4), but then rest of your deck should work to make it matter. For me it looks like Army of Rats, Smiling Jack, Information Network, power-bases, ani intercept and sabbat cards to block actions. So you should be actually a wall. Bribes have to go out unconditionally - it gives pool to the table which is terrible with your lack of ousting power. NC Russia

> Azel wrote: > Thanks for the Master Discipline ratio! That's great stuff. I am getting 5 vampires for 2.5, round .5 down, to 2 OBF in my math, though. Maybe I am giving the wrong impression of a more serious vote deck? I am thinking of Kendrick & Cicatriz at least because of CotE cap-size increase & Spying Mission, (and even Shannon with OBF Spying is solid). > Distinct vampires, of which there are three. If you were running a !Brujah with Obfuscate deck, I can see using a different paradigm, but upgrading more than one of your crypt draw is unnecessary. > Azel wrote: > Do you actually see voting potential in this crypt for something more aggressive? I'd trust your opinion on that. I thought I'd be lucky to parley FtP & Bribes for a weird non-PRE vote bloat module experiment. > > Basically these are the two main experiments: Oportunistic non-PRE, non-breed, vote bloat, and Big cap obf & aus bleed reduce. A lot of non-bounce clans can access these, as it'd be big caps & basic (often unused spare) disciplines at most. It's exploring how it may free up Master slots from standard Master bloat. > FtP doesn't do meaningful damage and, with Bribes, in every case of my Stunt Cycle/FtP deck, all I did was cause two of us to gain 2 pool and the others to net zero. So, yes, it can bloat, but it does nothing to oust. The quintessential problem is that nothing in the deck ousts anybody. I'd play that in a casual game because it would like sweep or something, but it's just going to frustrate people when your deck's most vicious action is "gain 2 pool" with one of your three minions in play. A bleed module wouldn't take up many slots. But, as I said, boring. I know you aren't enthusiastic about KRC, but 8x KRC is, at least, some offense. In theory, bloat can lead to more minions, but I just don't think it's going to happen reliably. Fame/Deep Song is another possibility for some casual offense. Could be extremely grindy with combat, but that's full of problems. If only you were independent, then you could FSR and RA people, both of which actually hurt. Could just use vote to support combat and Templar up to run around and pick off soft targets, but, then, a real combat deck prey becomes hazardous. The ability to off people with AE/AU and Reins of Power can be something. I had an AE/AU !Nos deck that won some table because I took a bleed action rather than a vote action to kill first prey when I feared Delaying Tactics messing up my victory. AE/AU did soften things up to where trivial bleeding actually mattered. Traveller Card Game

> Ankha wrote: > > > Azel wrote: > > 4x Dummy Corporation > > > Be careful not to rely too much on this card: it's on the watch list because of its power level. > Seriously? Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Here is my interpretation of a more vote aggressive variant, fighting against minion advantage, a la ICL recommendations. AIs to outright burn big bleeds, bleed reduce to tempt pushing up to big bleeds. Camera Phones for permanent bleed assist. The main experiment becomes the big cap bleed reduce package paired with Archon Investigations. !Nos vote aggression and bleed defense with 3 or less expected minions is the challenge. edit: I get the Master discipline formula now. Deck Name: !Nos Church is Sick of yer Kids! Author: Azel Description: !Nos big cap reduce & anti-spawn vote Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=10 avg=6.857143) ================== 2x Kendrick 7 aus obf ANI POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 1x Shannon Price 3 ani obf Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Yong-Sun (ADV) 10 aus ANI OBF POT THA Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Aeron 9 aus pro ANI OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:3 1x Calebos 8 cel ANI OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Christanius Lionel 6 pot ANI OBF Nosferatu antitribu:2 2x Cicatriz 5 ani obf pot Nosferatu antitribu:2 Library: 80 cards Master (13 cards) ================== 4x Life in the City 2x Archon Investigation 1x Nosferatu Kingdom 1x Obfuscate 1x Black Forest Base 4x Dummy Corporation Action (1 cards) ================== 1x Conceal Action Modifier (14 cards) ================== 3x Animal Magnetism 5x Spying Mission 6x Bribes Action Modifier/Combat (3 cards) ================== 3x Shadow Boxing Political Action (8 cards) ================== 4x Anarchist Uprising 4x Ancilla Empowerment Combat (16 cards) ================== 3x Thrown Sewer Lid 5x Aid from Bats 8x Carrion Crows Equipment (2 cards) ================== 2x Camera Phone Reaction (23 cards) ================== 1x Fillip 2x On the Qui Vive 4x Rat's Warning 6x Telepathic Counter 3x Cats' Guidance 7x Confusion of the Eye

> ICL wrote: > FtP doesn't do meaningful damage and, with Bribes, in every case of my Stunt Cycle/FtP deck, all I did was cause two of us to gain 2 pool and the others to net zero. So, yes, it can bloat, but it does nothing to oust. > > The quintessential problem is that nothing in the deck ousts anybody. I'd play that in a casual game because it would like sweep or something, but it's just going to frustrate people when your deck's most vicious action is "gain 2 pool" with one of your three minions in play. > You have discovered my elaborate Art Scam to rule the casual scene! Curses, foiled again! But seriously, what can we do with this form of vote bloat? Is it solely dependent upon the meta for low titled tables? Work in anti-title style decks into a more robust oust package elsewhere? (e.g. as you mention combat, or AE/AU anti-minion spam, intercept deck, etc.) You can technically target all but yourself in FtP, which should deliver something, somewhere (perhaps on some weenie or midcap deck), yet the Bribes are focusing on bloat over oust. Maybe there are better "harmless votes" to bloat with, like a small Regaining the Upper Hand & Bribes package? Then it'd be less titles and just a splash of vote push?

There are plenty of votes that do virtually nothing or do something but kind of randomly if all you want is a Bribes target. Tithings, Tribunal Judgment, Transfer of Power, Disputed Territory (have your own locations to make sure you have targets), Consanguineous Condemnation. Transfer of Power is kind of interesting as a "massive" "bloat" "engine". There are votes that don't suck that you can still do harmless things with, like Con Boon, where you may end up naming Nagaraja or whatever. There are votes people might fear even if they suck, like Sabbat Priest, so that's probably the opposite of the aim. Cardinal Benediction is a way to not bloat Cammies with Bribes and gets you vote power. There are votes that may be meaningless and may just wreck people accidentally, like Peace Treaty and Kindred Segregation. There is even a vote that does actually do damage but will be trivial against fattie decks - Neonate Breach. If trying to blow out winnie Animalism or superstar + doofi, an actual threat. For what you want, I like a massive Transfer of Power build. Just think, if you are somehow ahead of other decks on pool, you are ... losing less. Don't run Regaining the Upper Hand. It will just get all of your vampires Sens. Depped ... I still dislike the inferior TC plan. At the point where you play TC at inferior, a card in a discipline that can be cancelled "by accident" those folks trying to stop bounce, can play more esoteric bleed reduction. If trying to find a use for Auspex, well, there are a few inferior plays that aren't awful ... in theory. Nose of the Hound might actually fit the deck, and it's in the not bad camp. Of course, the easiest thing is just run Auspex skill cards and be an impregnable wall of reduction. Why are you avoiding P: Madrid? Traveller Card Game