Name: Revenge of the Cappadocians
Cardtype: Action
Cost: Not applicable
Capacity: Not applicable
Discipline: Necromancy
Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
+1 stealth action.
[nec] Steal 2 blood from a vampire in torpor. Giovanni get -1 intercept when attempting to block this action.
[NEC] As above, but steal 3 blood.
Flavor text: Not applicable.
Art notes: A large right hand looming in a puppetmaster-like manner (without the strings) over a funeral casket.
World of Darkness reference: whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Harbingers_of_Skulls
How does this card address a compelling game need?: It helps to offset the cost of in-clan discipline Necromancy, Fortitude, and Auspex cards, while reflecting their necromantic nature (since Graverobbing is already a Dominate card). It would also help to make the Harbinger of Skulls promo (and hopefully reprinted) Crematorium more viable. Of course, it would also work better if Crematorium was changed from "During your Untap" to "During your Discard".
Created by: Scott Kowalczuk
> scott_kowalczuk wrote:
> Discipline: Necromancy
> Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
> +1 stealth action.
> [nec] Steal 2 blood from a vampire in torpor. Giovanni get -1 intercept when attempting to block this action.
> [NEC] As above, but steal 3 blood.
>
I'm interested as to why you're proposing a card that requires both a clan and a discipline. If the issue is that:
offset the cost of in-clan discipline Necromancy, Fortitude, and Auspex cards
Then most of Auspex is fairly cheap, and the costs that come with some Fortitude cards (e.g. Freak Drive, Kiss of Ra, Day Op/Daring sort-of, Skin of Steel) are suffered by the Samedi too. So making it Harbingers only seems a bit of a missed opportunity.
If your concern is around Giovanni playing it for whatever reason (it could potentially make Turbo-Shamblers more interesting, for example), you could provide a small detriment to Giovanni taking the action, as well as blocking it. e.g. acting Giovanni don't get the +1 stealth, or the card costs 1 blood (not free) for Giovanni, or something like that.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> I'm interested as to why you're proposing a card that requires both a clan and a discipline. If the issue is that:
>
> offset the cost of in-clan discipline Necromancy, Fortitude, and Auspex cards
>
> Then most of Auspex is fairly cheap, and the costs that come with some Fortitude cards (e.g. Freak Drive, Kiss of Ra, Day Op/Daring sort-of, Skin of Steel) are suffered by the Samedi too. So making it Harbingers only seems a bit of a missed opportunity.
>
> If your concern is around Giovanni playing it for whatever reason (it could potentially make Turbo-Shamblers more interesting, for example), you could provide a small detriment to Giovanni taking the action, as well as blocking it. e.g. acting Giovanni don't get the +1 stealth, or the card costs 1 blood (not free) for Giovanni, or something like that.
>
Because... screw the Giovanni; they already have Dominate
> scott_kowalczuk wrote:
>
> > jamesatzephyr wrote:
> > But why screw the Samedi? They don't have Dominate.
> >
> Then by all means, make some Samedi suggestion threads
>
But why not just make the card usable by both? The Samedi have a lot of backstory intertwined with the Cappadocians as well, being an offshoot clan of them in some of the source materials. (This being White Wolf, there are often conflicting rumours and the like, but there's a fairly solid connection between them in a number of sources.)
When you could tweak the card in a way that would make it better, without harming the Harbingers' ability to use it in any way, it seems weird to be so intransigent. I would have thought that a card that works for a wider variety of vampires, including Samedi vampires who could do with some help, it's more likely to be the sort of thing you'd print.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> But why not just make the card usable by both? The Samedi have a lot of backstory intertwined with the Cappadocians as well, being an offshoot clan of them in some of the source materials. (This being White Wolf, there are often conflicting rumours and the like, but there's a fairly solid connection between them in a number of sources.)
>
> When you could tweak the card in a way that would make it better, without harming the Harbingers' ability to use it in any way, it seems weird to be so intransigent. I would have thought that a card that works for a wider variety of vampires, including Samedi vampires who could do with some help, it's more likely to be the sort of thing you'd print.
>
I'm willing to remove the Clan requirement so you can use it with your Voodoo Feratu, but only if "Not usable by a Giovanni" is included
> scott_kowalczuk wrote:
> Name: Revenge of the Cappadocians
> Cardtype: Action
> Cost: Not applicable
> Capacity: Not applicable
> Discipline: Necromancy
> Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
> +1 stealth action.
> [nec] Steal 2 blood from a vampire in torpor. Giovanni get -1 intercept when attempting to block this action.
> [NEC] As above, but steal 3 blood.
>
The effect is extremely weak for a high opportunity cost: vampires don't stay long in torpor, and usually they go there empty. Most of the time, a diablerie will be a better option.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> The effect is extremely weak for a high opportunity cost: vampires don't stay long in torpor, and usually they go there empty. Most of the time, a diablerie will be a better option.
>
On the contrary, vampires go to torpor with plenty of blood on them all the time. This card would help the vampires stay in torpor, until they could be safely burned with Crematorium (which should be reprinted to "Discard Phase"). It also creates an interesting offense for them, coupled with cards like Fame, Tension in the Ranks, and Dragonbound.
Diablerie for the Harbingers is not a better option. Out of the 16 current Harbingers, only 2 of them have titles. Add the fact that none of their disciplines lend them extra votes, and you have vampires that probably will not survive a blood hunt.
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > scott_kowalczuk wrote:
> > Name: Revenge of the Cappadocians
> > Cardtype: Action
> > Cost: Not applicable
> > Capacity: Not applicable
> > Discipline: Necromancy
> > Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
> > +1 stealth action.
> > [nec] Steal 2 blood from a vampire in torpor. Giovanni get -1 intercept when attempting to block this action.
> > [NEC] As above, but steal 3 blood.
> >
> The effect is extremely weak for a high opportunity cost: vampires don't stay long in torpor, and usually they go there empty. Most of the time, a diablerie will be a better option.
>
One concept might be to block your predator, play Breath of Thanatos in combat (1 aggravated damage), then follow up with this action on your turn for blood gain/predator blood denial without worry of a blood hunt. It's not a winning combo, but I see the thinking here.
Why not:
Clan: Harbingers of skull
+1 stealth action
Steal all blood from a vampire in torpor.
Still way weaker than graverobbing, but it's a wacky effect that reads big numbers in the text.
You could add an extra effect and attach the card to the target vampire for future hindrance. Like, rescuing this vampire costs an extra blood or no extra stealth for hunts or whatever gimmicky little extra for additional nuisance?
As is, it's clearly not strong enough. you can boot up the levels without much worries, I think.
There are plenty of different additional effects to include, and to adjust accordingly the amount of blood stolen could vary:
That vampire does not gain the +1 stealth when hunting. This vampire may burn 2 blood to burn this card. (Steal all blood)
Rescuing that vampire costs an additional blood, and the controller of that vampire burns a pool during their unlock phase if this vampire is in torpor. (Steal 1 blood)
When that vampire plays a card, add a counter to this card and do not replace the played card as long as this card is in play. Burn this card when it reaches 5 counters. (Steal 3 blood)
That vampire gets -1 bleed and -1 sealth during D actions against you. (Steal 3 blood)
You could do all sorts of wacky stuff and the card still wouldn't be too strong. Torpor effects are one of the most hard to achieve conditions in the game (consistently I mean).
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
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> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > scott_kowalczuk wrote:
> > Discipline: Necromancy
> > Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
> > +1 stealth action.
> > [nec] Steal 2 blood from a vampire in torpor. Giovanni get -1 intercept when attempting to block this action.
> > [NEC] As above, but steal 3 blood.
> >
> I'm interested as to why you're proposing a card that requires both a clan and a discipline. If the issue is that:
>
> offset the cost of in-clan discipline Necromancy, Fortitude, and Auspex cards
>
> Then most of Auspex is fairly cheap, and the costs that come with some Fortitude cards (e.g. Freak Drive, Kiss of Ra, Day Op/Daring sort-of, Skin of Steel) are suffered by the Samedi too. So making it Harbingers only seems a bit of a missed opportunity.
>
> If your concern is around Giovanni playing it for whatever reason (it could potentially make Turbo-Shamblers more interesting, for example), you could provide a small detriment to Giovanni taking the action, as well as blocking it. e.g. acting Giovanni don't get the +1 stealth, or the card costs 1 blood (not free) for Giovanni, or something like that.
>
Shamblings send to torpor with no blood.
And why play this card when you can already play graverobbing...
> Kraus wrote:
> Why not:
>
> Clan: Harbingers of skull
> +1 stealth action
> Steal all blood from a vampire in torpor.
>
> Still way weaker than graverobbing, but it's a wacky effect that reads big numbers in the text.
>
I like it. Well done
Would work well with an updated version of Crematorium, and it's thematic. The "masters of death" should have an offensive way to drain vampires in torpor.
I'd still like to see a "-1 intercept for Giovanni" though, because the Harbingers are all about getting revenge on the Gio.
Well, the Giovanni hoser part is fair. It wouldn't be the first time clan specific negatives are given to cards. As long as it's supported by lore we're all good.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines