Keywords?

Is there a list of Keywords for vtes? I notice ssome abilites like "fae" instead of "cold iron vulnerability", "Strength" instead of "hand damage". Replacing words here and there. Skimmed the rules and didn't see it under the important terms section. I'm sure I just missed it somewheres... Prince of Lodi, Ca Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.

> xXLazarusXx wrote: > I notice ssome abilites like "fae" instead of "cold iron vulnerability", > I can't think of any cards that use "fae" as a keyword. There are some cards that use "changeling" as a type of ally or retainer, but that isn't related to "cold iron vulnerability". Thematically, it possibly should be. Mechnically, it isn't - vulnerability only affects vampires, and allies wouldn't care much about aggravated damage anyway. > xXLazarusXx wrote: > "Strength" instead of "hand damage". . > The two aren't exactly equivalent. Strength vs hand damage was a change in style, aimed mostly at trying to get people to think about things like melee weapons etc. differently from hand strikes. Previously, a card like Bastard Sword might say something like "+1 hand damage". The wording in V:TES was "Minion with this weapon inflicts +1 hand damage with each strike." Amongst other ambiguities, this tended to get people going "Oh, so it's inflicting hand damage? So you mean I can play Claws of the Dead on it to get aggravated hand damage?" (Note: you can't do this.) So now: - "strength" is your minion's innate damage (default: 1), and some minions have a strength modifier (e.g. Lazverinus) - the default "hand strike" deals close range damage to your opponent equal to your strength, and the damage it deals is "hand damage" - there are plenty of other strike cards out there that are hand strikes (e.g. Undead Strength when not using a melee weapon, Quick Jab, Dead Hand) - there are other strikes based on strength that are not hand strikes and do not deal hand damage (e.g. melee weapons that aren't Bundi, Earthshock which is excluded from being a hand strike because it is ranged damage, Shadow Strike or Smite for the same reason)

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > - there are plenty of other strike cards out there that are hand strikes (e.g. Undead Strength when not using a melee weapon, Quick Jab, Dead Hand). > The realization that Blood Rage was a hand strike in my group was fun.

I realized that I had seen the "Fae" keyword on a card on amaranth deckbuilder, and it is not on any of that actual cards. Actual cards have the cold iron wording. Prince of Lodi, Ca Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.

I think that has something to do with some of the planned changes in the wording templates?

That's good to know. There are a few others I would suggest condensing like the above example, but we run-in to the "more keywords that rules" problem. Prince of Lodi, Ca Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.

> xXLazarusXx wrote: > I realized that I had seen the "Fae" keyword on a card on amaranth deckbuilder, and it is not on any of that actual cards. Actual cards have the cold iron wording. > Yes, Amaranth uses the latest revised card text which is available here: www.vekn.net/card-lists (Revised Card List) Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

> Ke. wrote: > > > xXLazarusXx wrote: > > I realized that I had seen the "Fae" keyword on a card on amaranth deckbuilder, and it is not on any of that actual cards. Actual cards have the cold iron wording. > > > Yes, Amaranth uses the latest revised card text which is available here: > > www.vekn.net/card-lists (Revised Card List) > What a horrifyingly unhelpful change, offering negative value to the game. Sit down at a table as a new player and see a vampire with "Cold Iron Vulnerability" on them, and a weapon with "Cold Iron" on it. Hey, maybe there's some interaction between these two? Nope, doesn't work anymore. If the aim is to save space on cards, then are clan and discipline symbols going to be removed from the body of card text? e.g. "Put this card on a Laibon or on a vampire with Protean [pro]. This vampire gets +1 level of Abombwe [abo] and +1 capacity. Cannot be put on a vampire with superior Abomwbe [ABO]." Something LSJ deliberately added, to reduce the problems for new players who could mostly just symbol match when faced with unfamiliar cards. Players don't - in general - have to remember what the default sect of every clan is because your Toreador Antitribu says Sabbat on it anyway. So taking an already corner-case mechanic and making it that little bit less obvious and more obscure? Mind-numbingly awful.

Well, trying to stay positive and constructive, and working with what we have, I'd like to get my hands on an updated rulebook. I'm %90 sure, "Fae" is no where to be seen. Those cards are a rules lawyers* nightmare now, as that new wording IS in effect and the cards NO LONGER SAY jack about cold iron without a rules reference.. .. (*The "show me in the rules" kinda guy, yeah, you know the one....) Prince of Lodi, Ca Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.

There's a precedent of using terms and concepts crucial to understanding the game in rulings but leaving those terms out of the rulebook (see "environmental damage"). It would be one thing if the powers that be were simply following that asinine precedent. However, a new precedent is being set by replacing old terms on cards with completely new terms without any updates or explanation given in the rulebook. If the old precedent is asinine, this new precedent is completely short sighted. I'm not seeing the benefit of officially changing card text without giving any thought of revising the rulebook. It is doing more harm than good. -Your friendly neighborhood rules lawyer

So: We use the slang term "rush" in place of "may enter combat with" for 22 years, and when we decide to keyword to turn 3ish words to one we picked...... Fae? Am I reading the thread right?

The Revised Card List is a work in progress. It is compatible with the current official cardtext and rulings, even though new keywords such as "Fae" are not currently described*. Considering that 1/ there is 16 vampires (and probably more to come) that have "Cold iron vulnerability" and only 4 weapons that are cold iron, 2/ there is less space on crypt card than on library cards. It is under consideration to move the rules about cold iron weapons dealing aggravated damage on cold iron vulnerable minions from the rulebook to the cold iron cards themselves. Also, for those who summon the name of LSJ, he recommanded the use of "Fae". I suppose that the useful move would be to get rid of those irrelevant (at least in 99.999% of the games) drawbacks to really simplify the game (other useless drawbacks concern True Brujah and their inability to play celerity cards). This would require a reprint of course, as the current Ruling Team position is not to errata cards until they can be reprinted. * For those who ask: Fae = Cold iron vulnerability. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I started this thread looking for a neat list of all the fun new toys we had, and it devolved into something completly different. I see new keywords as an advantage for future decks, themes and cards. Maybe that's just me, but it works in the games that implimented it. Mostly for the reasons above. Space - saved. More room for abilities to set vampires apart. Prince of Lodi, Ca Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.

> xXLazarusXx wrote: > I started this thread looking for a neat list of all the fun new toys we had, and it devolved into something completly different. > > I see new keywords as an advantage for future decks, themes and cards. Maybe that's just me, but it works in the games that implimented it. Mostly for the reasons above. Space - saved. More room for abilities to set vampires apart. > So, the reason why the thread has "devolved into something completely different" is that people chose this thread to voice their opinions about changes being made to the cards. I think people feel similarly as you do that keywords can be an advantage when done well. The problem is, it's not really being done well with VTES for the reasons given in this thread. And hence the de-evolution of the thread. I apologize that your expectation of the thread staying on topic is not being met.

Edit. Origional quippy post deleted by user. I think that it's fine you chose this forum to vent your frustrations on. That's fine with me, in fact I couldn't think of a better place! So "devolve" away, But! To state again. Still need an updated list of official keywords, Thanks. (Edit: Rulebook section 11: Special terms is kinda what I'm after. If it just includes fae it's not that a big of a deal, thanks.) Prince of Lodi, Ca Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.

I can give you a list of keywords I'd like to see to save space and give more physical design space: Rush: "enter combat with" Vigilant: "may play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped" Aversion-{trait}: Minion with Aversion cannot block {trait} such as Phillip Rigaud would read "Aversion-Undirected actions." Tyler McGill "Aversion-Nosferatu" Also, simpler ways to show abilities, Arcadian : bleed at +1 stealth and plus one bleed. Its small, but it eliminates "the Arcadian may~as a~action that costs one blood" Things like that, cost colon what you bought. Xavier : +2 strength until.... You get the idea. "Fae" didn't seem high on the list, but maybe we get really wordy Kiasyd soon..... AFAIK, Fae is the only keyword not searchable on secret library except: Blood Cursed Scarce Sterile Bahari Since red list, infernal, black hand, seraph, slave,flight et al are searchable and anything else is something to do with political affiliations.

> xXLazarusXx wrote: > To state again. > Still need an updated list of official keywords, > Thanks. > > (Edit: Rulebook section 11: Special terms is kinda what I'm after. If it just includes fae it's not that a big of a deal, thanks.) > You're asking a simple question that has a complicated answer. www.vekn.net/forum/generic-v-tes-discussion/75121-crypt-card-redesign?start=126#78311 Keyword: Not defined or referenced in the rulebook. It's a general term in gaming. Trait: Only referenced in the rulebook in the rules for the special term Vulnerability. The only trait is Cold Iron. Attribute: Clan and discipline symbols go in the attribute bar of a crypt card. Attribute is also referenced in the rules for Anarch vampires - the only attribute is Anarch. Term: Terms are the proposed results of a successful referendum. Special terms are (traits/attributes/keywords/terms) that have special rules associated with them in the rulebook. All other (traits/attributes/keywords/terms) such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal, and Gehenna are not defined in the rulebook as being a trait, attribute, keyword, or term. We've clearly gotten along just fine without such a definition, but from a hard-coding perspective, it would be good to define them. I propose the following terminology: Keyword: Remains not defined in the rules. Just a general term in gaming. Atttibute: Only refers to the attribute bar, where clan, discipline, and Advanced icons are displayed. Terms: Only refers to the proposed result of a successful referendum. Trait: All of the keywords, such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal and Gehenna. Also includes "special traits", which are those listed in the "special terms" section of the rulebook (simply renaming "special term" to "special trait"). Note that by these definitions, things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" are not traits. They remain abilities provided to a vampire in its card text.