What is a Continental Championship Qualifier?

I know Ankha and I had this discussion before by email, but now that I have recovered a bit from being very agitated about it I would like to get a better understanding of the qualifier process for a continental championship. Question: What is the definition of a Continental Championship Qualifier? Where in the (tournament) rules is this specified? Thanks MV

Qualifiers are mentioned in two places : The Tournament Rules article under Rules in the left menu, section 9.8. "Non-Open V:TES Events" The Continental Championships article under Events in the left menu Also, "Continental Qualifier" is an event type when creating a new event. To sum up: Continental qualifiers allow players to attend a non-open continental championship. The same way, national qualifiers allow players to attend a non-open national championship. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Understood. To quote 9.8: "Qualifiers are handled just like regular tournaments for sanctioning, prize support, etc., and are open to all players" So it is basically a regular tournament called "Qualifier". Excellent. Thanks

> MarcusVitel wrote: > So it is basically a regular tournament called "Qualifier". Excellent. Thanks > Well, a tournament is a tournament is a tournament... To me, the biggest difference with Continental Championship Qualifier's is the qualification. Whereas in a regular tournament only the winner qualifies, in Continental Championship Qualifier everyone who score a GW, and the organizer, qualify. Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > To me, the biggest difference with Continental Championship Qualifier's is the qualification. > > Whereas in a regular tournament only the winner qualifies, in Continental Championship Qualifier everyone who score a GW, and the organizer, qualify. > Absolutely right, so why would you ever hold a tournament that is not a Qualifier?

Qualification for 1GW in Continental Qualifier is a pleasant difference. But what is the difference between usual Constructed and National Qualifier? NC Belarus

As I understand it, a Qualifier is a constructed tournament that the organizer declares to be a 'Qualifier'. Simple as that. It is just more difficult to qualify at a constructed event.

> MarcusVitel wrote: > As I understand it, a Qualifier is a constructed tournament that the organizer declares to be a 'Qualifier'. Simple as that. It is just more difficult to qualify at a constructed event. > Correct. > Lönkka wrote: > To me, the biggest difference with Continental Championship Qualifier's is the qualification. > Whereas in a regular tournament only the winner qualifies, in Continental Championship Qualifier everyone who score a GW, and the organizer, qualify. > Correct. > MarcusVitel wrote: > Absolutely right, so why would you ever hold a tournament that is not a Qualifier? > Because each country has a limited number of Qualifier events. The National Coordinators decide how many qualifiers will be held in each country (usually 1 or 2). > Exposer wrote: > Qualification for 1GW in Continental Qualifier is a pleasant difference. > But what is the difference between usual Constructed and National Qualifier? > A National Qualifier qualifies players with 1 GW for the National Championship of the same country. A constructed tournament qualifies only the winning player. (Since a National Qualifier is a tournament, it qualifies also the winner for any Continental Championship). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > Because each country has a limited number of Qualifier events. The National Coordinators decide how many qualifiers will be held in each country (usually 1 or 2). > As far as I know there is nothing in the rules about the number of qualifiers that can be held. So it could easily be any number as long as the NC agrees. Coming back to the subject of this thread: A Qualifier is also an event organized by the NC of a region/ country, that could be run by a Prince if delegated by the NC.

> MarcusVitel wrote: > Coming back to the subject of this thread: A Qualifier is also an event organized by the NC of a region/ country, > It doesn't have to be organized by the NC. Any player can organize tournaments. > MarcusVitel wrote: > that could be run by a Prince if delegated by the NC. > A prince or anyone. How does it work: the organizer of the future event asks the NC if his or her tournament can be a qualifier, or alternatively, the NC contacts the Prince of a city in which he or she would like a qualifier to take place. > MarcusVitel wrote: > As far as I know there is nothing in the rules about the number of qualifiers that can be held. So it could easily be any number as long as the NC agrees. > There's a consensus not to organize more than 1 or 2 Continental Qualifiers per country. Allowing more would remove any interest into organizing such events. People travel through countries to attend Qualifiers. If every tournament was a qualifier, people would stop doing so. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > MarcusVitel wrote: > > As far as I know there is nothing in the rules about the number of qualifiers that can be held. So it could easily be any number as long as the NC agrees. > > > There's a consensus not to organize more than 1 or 2 Continental Qualifiers per country. Allowing more would remove any interest into organizing such events. People travel through countries to attend Qualifiers. If every tournament was a qualifier, people would stop doing so. > I suggest you add the number of qualifiers to the rules though. (In other games I believe this number depends on the amount of players or organisers who can hold such tournament) "Consensus" doesn't mean anything really. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > MarcusVitel wrote: > > > As far as I know there is nothing in the rules about the number of qualifiers that can be held. So it could easily be any number as long as the NC agrees. > > > > > There's a consensus not to organize more than 1 or 2 Continental Qualifiers per country. Allowing more would remove any interest into organizing such events. People travel through countries to attend Qualifiers. If every tournament was a qualifier, people would stop doing so. > > > I suggest you add the number of qualifiers to the rules though. (In other games I believe this number depends on the amount of players or organisers who can hold such tournament) "Consensus" doesn't mean anything really. > It means that the NCs handle the organization within the established tournament rules. Rules and organization are two distinct domains. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > [t means that the NCs handle the organization within the established tournament rules.Rules and organization are two distinct domains. > Not your department? No problem. Still no firm regulation and as of right now the NC could any number of qualifiers. Follow-up question: How would I put forward a notion to change how qualifiers are handled and organized? Who would be the right VEKN official to talk to?

> MarcusVitel wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > [t means that the NCs handle the organization within the established tournament rules.Rules and organization are two distinct domains. > > > Not your department? No problem. Still no firm regulation and as of right now the NC could any number of qualifiers. > > Follow-up question: How would I put forward a notion to change how qualifiers are handled and organized? Who would be the right VEKN official to talk to? > This forum is the right media. Many NCs will gather during the next EC, so if any suggestions are posted here, they will be able to discuss about them. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> MarcusVitel wrote: > Not your department? No problem. Still no firm regulation and as of right now the NC could any number of qualifiers. > Like Anhka said previously, the number of qualifiers has been limited to 1 (or two for geographic reasons) per country. This has worked really well for as long as VEKN has been going around so I am astonished by your enthusiasm to change this tradition! In similar vein, there is only one National Championships per country per year. It would be helpful if you do have examples where the current system has not worked well. This can be augmented by sharing us insight how the unlimitless Qualifiers work better. Presently, if this matter is brought up at the EC's NC meeting, I see little reason (EDIT: not] to be a Traditionalist, vote against it and say that we move on to the next matter so we can get the bloody meeting done with and get on to actual things that matter (=boozing, comradeship and playing some fun casual games of VTES. And probably some other games too). Them bloody meetings always tend to drag on and on and on. Zzzzzzz... Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > [I am astonished by your enthusiasm to change this tradition! > Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to change anything. I am trying to make the point that certain things in this organization are more guidelines, informal consensus and urban mythology than actual formalized standards and the qualifier my example. If we have topic A in the rules and we make see an official announcement that now X is happening at A, while we don't even have a definition of A in the rules I think that needs to be formalized. Well, I think I am done here. If the NCs feel the need to discuss a subject as unimportant as this during their meeting I would be surprised. Thanks!!

Representing only myself here. This is not Official Thoughts of Each And Every NC (TM) on the matter. Finnish Politics!

yeah, i'm confused as to why the sudden and intense interest at a perceived gap in the rules and stuff that doesn't appear to come up that often.

> A National Qualifier qualifies players with 1 GW for the National Championship of the same country. > A constructed tournament qualifies only the winning player. > Really? Our last National Qualifier visited 10 players (2 tables) and it was 2 rounds. It means that we barely could have 5 qualified players for our National Championship. And it's quite difficult to organize 2 National Qualifiers here. Anyway I don't think this rule is acceptable in Belarus. NC Belarus

> Exposer wrote: > > > A National Qualifier qualifies players with 1 GW for the National Championship of the same country. > > A constructed tournament qualifies only the winning player. > > > Really? > Our last National Qualifier visited 10 players (2 tables) and it was 2 rounds. > It means that we barely could have 5 qualified players for our National Championship. > And it's quite difficult to organize 2 National Qualifiers here. > Anyway I don't think this rule is acceptable in Belarus. > I suppose you're talking about the National Championship that occured on October 31st 2015. There's an announcement and report at rpg.by/index.php?showtopic=17808&pid=408132&st=0&#entry408132 but I see no trace of being qualified to attend that event. I therefore assume that the qualifier was organized not for qualifying purpose, or if it was in the first place, the idea was abandonned, so you have nothing to worry about. Anyway, nothing forces the National Coordinator to make the National Championship a non-open event. Plenty of countries have an open National Championship. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Plenty of countries have an open National Championship. > So in case of open National Championship like in Belarus it seems, there is no difference between National Qualifier and regular Constructed. Ankha, thanks for clarification. NC Belarus