Some players here in Brazil are discussing about contest rule and I want to confirm my point about the rule.
Question 1
A contested card will continue contested even if is no more valid target?
Ex.: 2 pentex are contested, one of targets of those pentex is burned. Pentex still contested or the Pentex of the burned vampire is burned with him?
I believe that card is still contested and out of the game not interacting with any element of the game until it back. When all give up the contest, the card back to game during the untap phase of winner of dispute and if is no longer valid target the card should be burned.
Question 2
Unique cards on a contested minion are considered out of the game or can be contested too?
Ex.: Player A put in play a Arika vampire and an Ivory Bow and Ephor on her, another player contests Arika.
In that example Player A can equips another Ivory Bow with Marcus Vitel he controls since the first Ivory is out of play with Arika or he can't? I think he can equip it.
Also following Marcus Vitel scenario, if another player yields the contest and Arika back to ready region of Player A with Ivory and Ephor, what happen with Ivory Bow? The Ivory with Arika is burned or Marcus one is burned? I think the Ivory with Arika is burned following self contest rule.
Rules and clarifications I found:
www.vekn.net/rulebook/4-untap-phase
Unique cards on contested cards are out of the game except with respect to being contested. They are contested as normal, should the need arise. [RTR 19951017]
Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson
LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer
Prince of Rio de Janeiro
Powerbase Rio de Janeiro
> Sydnelson wrote:
> Question 1
> A contested card will continue contested even if is no more valid target?
> Ex.: 2 pentex are contested, one of targets of those pentex is burned. Pentex still contested or the Pentex of the burned vampire is burned with him?
>
A contested card becomes uncontested in its controller's untap phase, once there are no other cards contesting it (yielded, player ousted etc).
> Sydnelson wrote:
> When all give up the contest, the card back to game during the untap phase of winner of dispute and if is no longer valid target the card should be burned.
>
Not sure what you mean about the validity of the target. Cards don't just get burned because the minion they're on is no longer a valid target - like a vampire with a clan-hoser on them (say, Gangrel Atavism) doesn't lose it because they're no longer Gangrel.
Coming back from being contested isn't freshly playing the card, it's just flipping the card back to where it was before it was contested.
> Sydnelson wrote:
> Unique cards on a contested minion are considered out of the game or can be contested too?
>
Yes, they can be contested too, by exactly the ruling you quote later:
Unique cards on contested cards are out of the game except with respect to being contested. They are contested as normal, should the need arise. [RTR 19951017]
> Sydnelson wrote:
> Ex.: Player A put in play a Arika vampire and an Ivory Bow and Ephor on her, another player contests Arika.
> In that example Player A can equips another Ivory Bow with Marcus Vitel he controls since the first Ivory is out of play with Arika or he can't? I think he can equip it.
>
Rulebook 4.1: "you cannot contest cards with yourself". If you equip that Ivory Bow, you'll contest it with yourself. Therefore, you can't do it.
> Sydnelson wrote:
> Also following Marcus Vitel scenario, if another player yields the contest and Arika back to ready region of Player A with Ivory and Ephor, what happen with Ivory Bow? The Ivory with Arika is burned or Marcus one is burned? I think the Ivory with Arika is burned following self contest rule.
>
In this situation, it's moot because you wouldn't have voluntarily equipped the Ivory Bow yourself.
However, in cases where you involuntarily contest a card with yourself (because some effect forces you to), the later "incoming" copy is burned. So you keep the one you have, and lose the one that you're about to get control of.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> Not sure what you mean about the validity of the target. Cards don't just get burned because the minion they're on is no longer a valid target - like a vampire with a clan-hoser on them (say, Gangrel Atavism) doesn't lose it because they're no longer Gangrel.
> Coming back from being contested isn't freshly playing the card, it's just flipping the card back to where it was before it was contested.
>
When I say valid target I mean if the target of card still there when contest is over, example: Pentex on Arika is contested, when contest is over Arika is no longer in game, what happen with Pentex? Pentex back to the game without a target or it burn since is no longer a target available?
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> Yes, they can be contested too, by exactly the ruling you quote later:
> Unique cards on contested cards are out of the game except with respect to being contested. They are contested as normal, should the need arise. [RTR 19951017]
>
My doubt is if those cards even out of the game can be contested, before they became out of game I know they contest and keep contested evenif the minion that carry it is contested as well.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> Rulebook 4.1: "you cannot contest cards with yourself". If you equip that Ivory Bow, you'll contest it with yourself. Therefore, you can't do it.
>
Ya I know I can't contest a card I control (except if an effect does that) But in Marcus example I can normally equip an Ivory Bow or no? Based on your post I think not because the floating cards on contested minion also contest with cards in game if I understand right.
Sorry for my poor english, this is the main reason that I do not participate in most of the discussions here.
Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson
LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer
Prince of Rio de Janeiro
Powerbase Rio de Janeiro
> Sydnelson wrote:
>
> > jamesatzephyr wrote:
> > Not sure what you mean about the validity of the target. Cards don't just get burned because the minion they're on is no longer a valid target - like a vampire with a clan-hoser on them (say, Gangrel Atavism) doesn't lose it because they're no longer Gangrel.
> > Coming back from being contested isn't freshly playing the card, it's just flipping the card back to where it was before it was contested.
> >
> When I say valid target I mean if the target of card still there when contest is over, example: Pentex on Arika is contested, when contest is over Arika is no longer in game, what happen with Pentex? Pentex back to the game without a target or it burn since is no longer a target available?
>
The Pentex is burned along with Arika
groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/contested$20card$20on$20contested$20minion$20yield/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/UHnzi4wT-fo/0UqUgH1-dakJ
> Sydnelson wrote:
>
> > jamesatzephyr wrote:
> > Yes, they can be contested too, by exactly the ruling you quote later:
> > Unique cards on contested cards are out of the game except with respect to being contested. They are contested as normal, should the need arise. [RTR 19951017]
> >
> My doubt is if those cards even out of the game can be contested, before they became out of game I know they contest and keep contested even the minion that carry it is contested as well.
>
If the card is in play (whether it is contested or not), it will cause other copies to come in play contested.
All the following cases are the same:
Arika has an Ivory Bow. Bob (another player) plays Ivory Bow => Ivory Bows are contested Arika has a contested Ivory Bow. Bob (another player) plays Ivory Bow => Ivory Bows are contested. Contested Arika has an Ivory Bow. Bob (another player) plays Ivory Bow => Ivory Bows are contested Contested Arika has a contested Ivory Bow. Bob (another player) plays Ivory Bow => Ivory Bows are contested.
> Sydnelson wrote:
>
> > jamesatzephyr wrote:
> > Rulebook 4.1: "you cannot contest cards with yourself". If you equip that Ivory Bow, you'll contest it with yourself. Therefore, you can't do it.
> >
> Ya I know I can't contest a card I control (except if an effect does that) But in Marcus example I can normally equip an Ivory Bow or no? Based on your post I think not because the floating cards on contested minion also contest with cards in game if I understand right.
>
Correct. Arika is contested, the Ivory Bow is not contested. You can't get another Ivory Bow since you would contest the Ivory Bow with yourself.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director