Thank you James for these very inspiring words:
"Consider, for example, that Lay Low can be played as a combat card, after a blood hunt referendum. Combat isn't over."
This deck is first draft really, just musing if illusion of the kindred, amaranth and lay low would be viable combo to get free minions and some blood to your uncontrolled region. To work this combo requires the illusion to be anarch out of crypt and these guys from upcoming VEKN set had some discipline synergy. Danielle (adv) would have chi, but unfortunately she has no pals to play with. So we go with pot pre crew.
Deck Name: Anarch Crypt Machine
Author: Mikko Moisander
Description:
Influence out one of your minions. Get in combat, play Illusion of the Kindred. Torporise and amaranth the opponent, get burned in blood hunt referendum and play lay low.
The illusion is now in your uncontrolled region hopefully with some blood on. Rinse and repeat until you have all of your crypt out.
Plan B: bruise bleed with Show of Force.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=4 max=8 avg=6.42)
===============================================
2x Jenna Cross 4 pot pre CEL Caitiff:4
3x Salvador Garcia 7 pot pro CEL PRE Brujah:4
3x Jack Drake 8 pre tha CEL POT Brujah:4
2x Marguerite Foccart (adv) 6 aus pot CEL PRE Brujah:4
2x Sundown (adv) 6 obf pre ANI POT Nosferatu:3
Library (70 cards)
==================
Master (14)
2x Agent of Power
1x Anarch Free Press, The
4x Chimerstry
2x Esgrima
4x Haven Uncovered
1x KRCG News Radio
Action (21)
4x Bum's Rush
5x Esprit de Corps
1x Fee Stake: Boston
1x Fee Stake: Corte
1x Fee Stake: Los Angeles
1x Fee Stake: New York
1x Open War
7x Show of Force
Political Action (4)
2x Exclusion Principle
2x Free States Rant
Reaction (5)
5x Mole, The
Combat (21)
5x Amaranth
4x Illusions of the Kindred
3x Immortal Grapple
3x Pursuit
6x Trap
Combo (5)
5x Lay Low
Obviously I have not played this yet, but I imagine getting your minions burned in blood hunt referendum after you pull your trick once, might be a problem,
> Maddog wrote:
> I think most players will vote the illusion not burn, after seeing this one-trick-combo.
>
> Can't see it being a big issue.
>
But it is still eating a minion with no concern of blood hunt. So, maybe a deck that doesnt need a skill card to do the combo would be better? Its a clunky anarch brujah bleed sink that might remove 2 minions before getting ousted.
Better luck with dbr ravnos? Or g2 same I with genina and compress? Or petaniqua, coma, kindred spirit? You get the point...
Maybe the best response is for the rules coordinator to interpret Illusions of the Kindred as it is actually written? Remove the crypt card from the game at the end of combat.
I've never understood why a card that is in the ash heap or uncontrolled region should be immune from being removed from the game.
> AaronC wrote:
> Maybe the best response is for the rules coordinator to interpret Illusions of the Kindred as it is actually written? Remove the crypt card from the game at the end of combat.
>
> I've never understood why a card that is in the ash heap or uncontrolled region should be immune from being removed from the game.
>
It's not intuitive to me neither, but there are probably good reasons I'm not aware of. Anyway, the choice was deliberate:
groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/u_ScSrex0g4/qTJpyOSpiwYJ
> LSJ wrote:
> The only effects that affect ashed vampires are the ones that say they
> do by explicit card text. Illusions has no such text.
>
> If you can provide any rules-based or card-text-based reason why Illusions
> should ignore the current rule against targeting ashed vampires, I'll happily
> send it off to the rules team.
>
I suppose it's the same reason why you can't target uncontrolled vampires without a specific cardtext. So it's the application of the rule that says:
By default, you can only target vampires that are in play.
> rulebook wrote:
> Targets. If a card is played on another card, or selects or chooses or otherwise targets another card, the target card must be in play (i.e., controlled). Vampires in the torpor region are eligible targets by default, but vampires in the uncontrolled region and contested cards are not.
>
For clarity, a reminder text could be added to the IotK.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> AaronC wrote:
> I've never understood why a card that is in the ash heap or uncontrolled region should be immune from being removed from the game.
>
If you removed cards from game instead of placing them in ashheap, it would make many cards (and necromancy) much obsolete or much weaker. Example: Ashur Tablets, Anthelios, The Red Star, Clio's Kiss, Epiphany, possession, Whispers from the Dead, Sudario Refraction, Sibyl's Tongue, Filchware's Pawn Shop, Imperator,summon history (Just to name a few). Many of these cards and many many more would become either useless or diluted in power.
@Ankha: Rule 1.6.1.4 talks about what you can or cannot target. It implies that you cannot target the ash heap (since the ash heap is now considered uncontrolled), and it explicitly says you cannot target the uncontrolled region.
I argue that the crypt card is targeted when IotK is played, as part of the announcement of the card. That targeting should then follow the card wherever it goes. It specifically refers to the card as a "card" and not a "vampire" or "minion", meaning that its "state" is not relevant. IotK starts out by targeting a card that is already not in play. And how can IotK continue to target things after it is in the ash heap?
@Maddog: I'm not advocating that more effects should remove cards from the game. What I'm saying is that IotK should always remove a card from the game because that is what it's card text says.
> AaronC wrote:
> @Maddog: I'm not advocating that more effects should remove cards from the game. What I'm saying is that IotK should always remove a card from the game because that is what it's card text says.
>
In that case, I agree and we have an accord matey
> Maddog wrote:
>
> > AaronC wrote:
> > I've never understood why a card that is in the ash heap or uncontrolled region should be immune from being removed from the game.
> >
> If you removed cards from game instead of placing them in ashheap, it would make many cards (and necromancy) much obsolete or much weaker. Example: Ashur Tablets, Anthelios, The Red Star, Clio's Kiss, Epiphany, possession, Whispers from the Dead, Sudario Refraction, Sibyl's Tongue, Filchware's Pawn Shop, Imperator,summon history (Just to name a few). Many of these cards and many many more would become either useless or diluted in power.
>
Cards from the ash heap can be removed from the game, using Trochomancy for instance.
Trochomancy explicitely targets cards from the ash heap.
> AaronC wrote:
> @Ankha: Rule 1.6.1.4 talks about what you can or cannot target. It implies that you cannot target the ash heap (since the ash heap is now considered uncontrolled), and it explicitly says you cannot target the uncontrolled region.
>
> I argue that the crypt card is targeted when IotK is played, as part of the announcement of the card. That targeting should then follow the card wherever it goes.
>
That could be an option, but it wasn't the option chosen. IotK tries to find the card when the combat ends and fails because it's not in play anymore per rule.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director