Does Taste of Vitae trigger Trap? And other confusions about Trap.

> Taste of Vitae > > [Combat] Combat > > Only usable at the end of a round of combat. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor. > This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire to damage during this round. A vampire may play only one Taste of Vitae each round. > > Trap > > [Combat] Combat > > Only usable before range is determined on the first round of combat. > During the press step, if any Methuselah has played a card earlier in the current round or during the two previous rounds, the Trap automatically provides a press to continue (either combatant can press to end). > My confusion stems from the fact that you play trap Taste of vitae "at the end of a round" while you actually play it AFTER the presses. And to me, presses ENDS the round, so there is no card played DURING a round, only after the previous and before the current. But then how does this reasoning hold up with cards before range and maneuvers... Question 1: Does Playing Taste of Vitae trigger the Trap for another 3 rounds? (I guess no) Question 2: If yes; when to play taste? Round1 - Trap before range, Trap presses, cards get played (Does trap count as the card played?). Round2 - No one plays cards, Trap presses Round3 - No one plays cards, Trap presses Round4 - No one plays cards, Trap fades Question 3: Which combat cards (Before Range; Maneuvers; Strikes; Additional Strikes; Presses) keep the trap going?

> 2wayspeaker wrote: > My confusion stems from the fact that you play trap "at the end of a round" > You don't play Trap at the end of the round. You play it "Only usable before range is determined on the first round of combat." > 2wayspeaker wrote: > And to me, presses ENDS the round > No. Presses are used during the press step. When noone has no more press to use, the round ends (you can play cards such as Taste of Vitae) and either the combat ends or a new round starts. > 2wayspeaker wrote: > Question 1: Does Playing Taste of Vitae trigger the Trap for another 3 rounds? > The Trap only triggers during the press step, not when you play cards. It checks during the press step if a card was played during this round or the 2 previous ones. If this is the case (eg. a Taste of Vitae played during the last round), it provides a press. > 2wayspeaker wrote: > Question 2: If yes; when to play taste? > Round1 - Trap before range, Trap presses, cards get played (Does trap count as the card played?). > Trap checks any cards played, so yes it counts itself. > 2wayspeaker wrote: > Round2 - No one plays cards, Trap presses > Round3 - No one plays cards, Trap presses > Round4 - No one plays cards, Trap fades > Correct. > 2wayspeaker wrote: > Question 3: Which combat cards (Before Range; Maneuvers; Strikes; Additional Strikes; Presses) keep the trap going? > Any card. Even master: out-of-turn cards played during combat for instance. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > 2wayspeaker wrote: > > My confusion stems from the fact that you play trap "at the end of a round" > > > You don't play Trap at the end of the round. You play it "Only usable before range is determined on the first round of combat." > Ah yes, I accidentally substituted Trap for Taste of vitae. I meant to say you play Taste at the end of a round, not during. And because trap only talks about during a round.. That's why I'm asking the question. > Ankha wrote: > > > 2wayspeaker wrote: > > Question 3: Which combat cards (Before Range; Maneuvers; Strikes; Additional Strikes; Presses) keep the trap going? > > > Any card. Even master: out-of-turn cards played during combat for instance. > Thanks! That was the answer I was looking for/wanted to hear. So to get the most length out of trap with Taste of vitae I should play it at the end of round 3? Round1 - Trap before range, Trap presses, cards get played Round2 - No one plays cards, Trap presses Round3 - No one plays cards, Trap presses - I play Taste of vitae Round4 - No one plays cards, Trap presses Round5 - No one plays cards, Trap presses Round6 - No one plays cards, Trap fades

> 2wayspeaker wrote: > So to get the most length out of trap with Taste of vitae I should play it at the end of round 3? > Round1 - Trap before range, Trap presses, cards get played > Round2 - No one plays cards, Trap presses > Round3 - No one plays cards, Trap presses - I play Taste of vitae > Round4 - No one plays cards, Trap presses > Round5 - No one plays cards, Trap presses > Round6 - No one plays cards, Trap fades > Correct.

> 2wayspeaker wrote: > I meant to say you play Taste at the end of a round, not during. > And because trap only talks about during a round.. That's why I'm asking the question. > The end of the round is part of the round. Also, the end of the turn is part of the turn. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > 2wayspeaker wrote: > > I meant to say you play Taste at the end of a round, not during. > > And because trap only talks about during a round.. That's why I'm asking the question. > > > The end of the round is part of the round. Also, the end of the turn is part of the turn. > that's lovely but "End" was specifically shown not to be in "During" for other phases e.g. Influence phase [see why you cannot transfer to vampire fished by Anarch Convert] so it's not necessarily obvious

> Squidalot wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > 2wayspeaker wrote: > > > I meant to say you play Taste at the end of a round, not during. > > > And because trap only talks about during a round.. That's why I'm asking the question. > > > > > The end of the round is part of the round. Also, the end of the turn is part of the turn. > > > that's lovely but "End" was specifically shown not to be in "During" for other phases e.g. Influence phase [see why you cannot transfer to vampire fished by Anarch Convert] so it's not necessarily obvious > That's terminology. There is no "limbo" between phases where the end of phase X would happen between phase X and phase X+1 (the next phase). You can't use effects that say "during phase X" at the end of phase X per rule/ruling, but the end of phase X is still part of phase X, even for the influence phase. groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/D8dv-4mDqVk/47RhYcL4ftwJ > > LSJ wrote: > Good effort, but still won't work. Once you reach the end of your > influence phase, you cannot do any "during your influence phase" stuff. > Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Sorry, please disregard. I misread something in the thread and deleted my reply.

It really doesn't make any English sense [and is weak form a maths argument which is where Scott would have pulled it] if you have a phase starting at time point zero and ending at time point 1, all parts of that phase from 0 to 1 are "during" that phase. I.e. the set is bounded at both ends. I don't understand how you're supposed to interpret anything else form the rulebook there.

> Squidalot wrote: > It really doesn't make any English sense [and is weak form a maths argument which is where Scott would have pulled it] > It would probably help if the Detailed Play Summary was updated to make this clearer in the influence phase: vekn.net/detailed-play-summary INFLUENCE PHASE [7] 1) Gain Transfers (a.k.a. "Influence Phase Actions"). - a) On turns 1, 2, and 3, gain only 1, 2, or 3 transfers, respectively. - b) Each turn after the third, gain exactly 4 transfers. 2) You may spend your transfers in any combination of the following: - a) 1: move one of your pool to one of your uncontrolled minions. - b) 2: move one blood from one of your uncontrolled minions to your pool. - c) 4: burn one pool and move the top card from your crypt to your uncontrolled region. - d) 4: burn one pool to merge a vampire in your uncontrolled region with a vampire you control (the base and advanced versions). [1.5.6] 3) Any remaining transfers are lost. 4) Any uncontrolled vampires (minions) with blood equal or greater than their blood capacity (cost) become controlled and move to the ready region untapped. Excess counters drain off. If 2) had a step e) that specified that other "during your influence phase" effects went off here, that would help. Note that the untap phase has: 3f) Resolve card effects that occur during the untap phase. [4]