Here's my fourth submission about Melee Weapons.
Melee weapons suck compared to range weapon because they lack the maneuver despite costing as much pool, for a gain of +1 damage (with default strength of 1).
For instance, a .44 Magnum deals 2R, a Bang-Nakh deals strength+2 damage. At close range, there's no gain as the opposing minion wil probably hit you for at least 1, so the balance between what you dealt / what you suffered is the same as with ranged weapon, but you took extra risks by staying at close range of taking more than 1 damage, some agg, or some strike: send to torpor you could have avoided.
This submission tries to give melee weapon an additional effect: entering combat
City Riot
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Put this card in play. Any minion can tap a melee weapon on him or her to enter combat with any minion as a action; on the first round of combat that action, the acting minion's initial strike must be with that weapon (even if the action is blocked). Any vampire with a city title can burn this card as a +1 stealth action.
Previous submissions about melee weapons:
www.vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/15794-card-idea-my-best-friend-melee-weapon-related-card#15794
www.vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/17245-card-idea-march-to-war-melee-weapon-related-card#17245
www.vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/51951-submission-under-siege-melee-weapon-fetcher#51951
www.vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/65938-submission-melee-weapon-package#65938
www.vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/55632-submission-melee-weapon-enhancers#55632
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> This submission tries to give melee weapon an additional effect: entering combat
>
> City Riot
> Cardtype: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Put this card in play. Any minion can tap a melee weapon on him or her to enter combat with any minion as a action; on the first round of combat that action, the acting minion's initial strike must be with that weapon (even if the action is blocked). Any vampire with a city title can burn this card as a +1 stealth action.
>
From a wording point of view, I'd change the end to "as a +1 stealth action", as it's likely to be someone else doing it (you'd assume).
I really like the theme, but from a power/utility point of view, I think it's misfiring. I can't help wondering if most decks wouldn't prefer the occasional frontal assault instead (timed well, it can help you gain pool).
You potentially get to save a few action cards, but often those action cards will have also been giving you the potential for another benefit, such as a maneuver. Of course, people might block you - but they don't always have a chump blocker, or they're tapped out etc. So you probably offset a few of the action cards you save with a few extra maneuvers, or similar. And it uses up a master card slot, and costs a pool, so it's competing with Blood Doll or Villein or whatever. And as a master, you probably don't want lots in your deck, so you might well not pull it very early, so you likely still need quite a few actions in your deck.
Cover Riots
Master
Unique. Burn this card during your Untap Phase.
Put this card in play. Your vampires with melee weapons may enter combat with your prey's minions or burn a location your prey controls as a action. A vampire using this card to attempt an action gains a maneuver and +1 strength during any combat before the next action commences or the minion phase ends.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> I really like the theme, but from a power/utility point of view, I think it's misfiring. I can't help wondering if most decks wouldn't prefer the occasional frontal assault instead (timed well, it can help you gain pool).
>
It's a permarush for your vampires (provided they have a melee weapon) so you can play it in the early game and use it later, and it allows you to go backwards.
Frontal is good if you have already plenty of minions, and has a narrower window of play.
I wouldn't play both cards in the same deck.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> You potentially get to save a few action cards, but often those action cards will have also been giving you the potential for another benefit, such as a maneuver. Of course, people might block you - but they don't always have a chump blocker, or they're tapped out etc. So you probably offset a few of the action cards you save with a few extra maneuvers, or similar. And it uses up a master card slot, and costs a pool, so it's competing with Blood Doll or Villein or whatever. And as a master, you probably don't want lots in your deck, so you might well not pull it very early, so you likely still need quite a few actions in your deck.
>
I think it takes the exact same spot as a Haven Uncovered. You can play more than 1 in the deck for increased effect, provided you play some untap tech and more than 1 melee weapon on the same guy.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Thematically, it sounds more like an event than a master phase action.
Riots
City Event.
Any minion with a melee weapon may enter combat with a minion controlled by his or her prey as a action. If the target minion's Methuselah controls a vampire with a city title, he or she may discard a combat card to cancel the action as it is announced.
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
> direwolf wrote:
> Thematically, it sounds more like an event than a master phase action.
>
Not necessariy. Riots are created by people, not by the environment.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> ]Not necessariy. Riots are created by people, not by the environment.
>
So that is the definition of Events? That they are created by the environment?
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
> Ashur wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > ]Not necessariy. Riots are created by people, not by the environment.
> >
> So that is the definition of Events? That they are created by the environment?
>
Yes, in my opinion they are "things that happen" : the Red Star appears, vampires are revealed, the blood of vampires is less potent than before etc.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > Ashur wrote:
> >
> > > Ankha wrote:
> > > ]Not necessariy. Riots are created by people, not by the environment.
> > >
> > So that is the definition of Events? That they are created by the environment?
> >
> Yes, in my opinion they are "things that happen" : the Red Star appears, vampires are revealed, the blood of vampires is less potent than before etc.
>
Dr. Marisa Fletcher?
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > jamesatzephyr wrote:
> > I really like the theme, but from a power/utility point of view, I think it's misfiring. I can't help wondering if most decks wouldn't prefer the occasional frontal assault instead (timed well, it can help you gain pool).
> >
> It's a permarush for your vampires (provided they have a melee weapon) so you can play it in the early game and use it later, and it allows you to go backwards.
>
Playing it in the early game and not using it (because you don't have melee weapons yet) just gives your opponents longer to burn it. Princes are quite popular, and if a card like this is useful, it'll do nothing to diminish them turning up.
Also, the problem is that permanent-driven decks are already backloaded. When other decks are dwindling, they still have the capacity to do interesting stuff. One of the problems facing melee weapon decks is that - except for, principally, Weighted Walking Stick and, to a much lesser extent, Concealed Weapon decks(*) - they're slow. You get the vampire out. Then you have to get the weapon out, potentially by an action. Then you get to rush, and the issue isn't (at that point) not having access to rush tech, it's having a substandard combat package - very little by way of anti-S:CE, not getting the free maneuver offered by a gun which is helpful defensively, being shut down by a popular combat archetype (Potence IG) etc. By the time you've equipped a melee weapon and rushed and had someone throw down Earth Meld, the IG deck could have rushed twice and got two kills.
(*) You're obviously allowed to bring out a Baseball Bat with a Concealed Weapon if you want to. But if you're going to that trouble, most of the time, people will just play a gun instead, because it's a better deal.
> Ankha wrote:
> I think it takes the exact same spot as a Haven Uncovered. You can play more than 1 in the deck for increased effect, provided you play some untap tech and more than 1 melee weapon on the same guy.
>
Melee weapons already have a card covering the exact same spot as a Haven Uncovered - it's Haven Uncovered. HU is a fine enough card - but it's being used in combat decks that have better tech than melee weapons.
> Ankha wrote:
> Yes, in my opinion they are "things that happen" : the Red Star appears, vampires are revealed, the blood of vampires is less potent than before etc.
>
Those are Gehenna events. Gehenna brought about a whole mystical end of the world, with all sorts of weird and wacky things happening and potentially happening in different endings.
Events also include intervention by the Inconnu - not just a thing that happens out of nowhere, but people who can be manipulated. Events also include the Government, who are manipulated across a whole range of cards - police departments, political hunting grounds, Pentex (who are involved with the whole establishment, mostly), the national guard, background checks etc.
But also...
> Ankha wrote:
> Not necessariy. Riots are created by people, not by the environment.
>
It doesn't have to be about necessity. Master cards are extremely competitive - you only have a small-ish number in your deck, and there are numerous cards that are generally very good indeed. Villein, Blood Doll, Dreams of the Sphinx, Pentex Subversion, The Barrens/Fragment, Temptation of Greater Power etc. are things people consider for lots of decks, and more specific decks (clan/sect) have tech that's highly attractive - ventrue HQ, Madness Network, Toreador Grand Ball, Power Structure, Foundation Exhibit or whatever.
Moving to a different card type can give decks a lot more flexibility to include a card.