Trying again to TWD with mill + brinkmanship !! Help !!

Any advice on this piece of crap deck :_D i didint begun to build it, i prefear to check advices first. Deck Name: Kyle wants your library Created By: AWV Description: Desesperation :_D Crypt: (11 cards, Min: 26, Max: 36, Avg: 7.72) 1 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6 Harbingers of Skulls 1 Mina Grotius cel FOR NEC 6 Harbingers of Skulls 1 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf7 Harbingers of Skulls 2 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC7 Harbingers of Skulls 2 Owain Evans pre cel AUS FOR DOM8 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Gustav Mallenhous AUS DOM for obt8 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Jesse Menks ani AUS DOM FOR8 Ventrue Antitribu 4 Kyle Strathcona AUS DOM for POT PRE9 Ventrue Antitribu Library: (90 cards) Master (36 cards) 2 Fortitude 1 Black Forest Base 1 Powerbase: Madrid 1 Gurchon Hall 2 Therbold Realty 3 Storage Annex 1 Hungry Coyote, The 6 Slaughterhouse, The 4 Vessel 4 Villein 1 Corporate Hunting Ground 1 Demonstration 2 Protected Resources 1 Sunset Strip, Hollywood 1 Festivo dello Estinto 4 Parthenon, The 1 The Erciyes Fragment Action (7 cards) 5 Govern the Unaligned 2 Pulse of the Canaille Action Modifier (11 cards) 3 Freak Drive 2 Bribes 1 Kindred Manipulation 3 Call of the Hungry Dead 2 Voter Captivation Political Action (5 cards) 3 Brinksmanship 2 Cardinal Benediction Reaction (14 cards) 7 Telepathic Counter 4 Telepathic Misdirection 3 On the Qui Vive Combat (12 cards) 3 Hidden Strength 3 Indomitability 2 Rolling with the Punches 2 Skin of Steel 2 Superior Mettle Equipment (3 cards) 2 Sacre Cour Cathedral, France 1 Erebus Mask Combo (2 cards) 2 Spectral Divination thanks in advance to all the fellas answering this

Trochomancy ? Every Brinksmanship deck I've ever seen featured Dia de los Muertos.

But... If I bleed with trochomancy I don't win via brinkamnship... My objective is win milling not bleeding

Why not Erciyes Fragments, The Master Unique master. Put this card in play. Tap this card to move a library card from your prey's ash heap to this card, face down. You may look at that card at any time. You may play the card from the Fragments as if playing it from your hand (requirements and cost, if any, apply as normal). When that card is burned, remove it from the game instead. Only 1 card can be on this card at a time. Any vampire with a capacity above 4 can steal the Fragments (and any card on it) for his or her controller as a action. ? Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

you are right !! i just forget about

> malkavianbarcelona wrote: > But... If I bleed with trochomancy I don't win via brinkamnship... My objective is win milling not bleeding > It never hurts to have a backup plan. Maybe more to the point, if you don't have "bleed my prey to zero pool" as your backup plan, why do you have Pulse of the Canaille in this deck?

Ok so you really want that Brinksmanship oust? Quite a challenge! Honestly this deck is going to be very slow, hence you need focus or the milling will not do anything. I think milling is good as a disruptive strategy against some decks (Anson!) but during a 2 hour game you would be lucky to mill through more than one library, and as you are slow you need to stay alive until the end game. With this crypt you are unlikely to have vote majority at any table (adding big-caps without votes like Owain is not helping) to get Brinksmanship through. Perhaps it makes sense to include voting rather than bleeding as the secondary strategy, and add more intrinsic votes to the crypt, and the some push like private audience/telepathic vote counting. Indeed Dia de Los Muertos is a no-brainer for Brinksmanship. Having Kyle as your biggest vamp slows everything down a lot, and you have no crypt acceleration. I also think the Harbingers in the crypt should be Egotha/Agaitas if you want milling, Gisela/Anisa does not accomplish any milling. For the library, I would bring it down to 80 cards max and in particular cut the master section to <20. Take out the whole Parthenon/Therbold Realty/storage annex/protected resources module; it is better to have the locations you want (Slaughterhouse/Dia) faster instead of getting a master jam in the early game. Add Dreams of the Sphynx for crypt acceleration and cycling. Hope this helps, good luck on your quest!

yeah it does... But i have only one single problem. How i avoid Delaying Tactics the turn i need to play dia de los muertos + Brinkmanship ?? The rest of changes are posible... off course, and use mid caps ventreu! just to have access to demonstration and extra AUS vamp it was in my mind too. Then Any ideas to dont be complete busted if somebody plays delaying over my brinkmanhsip ??

Why Pulse of Canaille: to play it at aus to see the hands of all metusalas searching delaying before jump to dia de los muertos + brinkmanship :__D

> malkavianbarcelona wrote: > yeah it does... But i have only one single problem. How i avoid Delaying Tactics the turn i need to play dia de los muertos + Brinkmanship ?? The rest of changes are posible... off course, and use mid caps ventreu! just to have access to demonstration and extra AUS vamp it was in my mind too. > > Then Any ideas to dont be complete busted if somebody plays delaying over my brinkmanhsip ?? > You could call the vote out of turn and have a DI in hand for the delaying tactics. It messes up the Dia de los Muertos angle, but lets you cancel a DT. If Kyle calls the vote he also has PRE for Approximation of Loyalty at PRE. For vote lock don't forget Powerbase: Madrid. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

One can't play Delaying Tactics on a referendum that automatically passes (eg. with Dia de Los Muertos) Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Ok... Then i try to follow some advices and remove politics ventrue! to win speed. This is what i get from it. I think is pretty easy to improve and again i will ask about your point of view about, by the way... I think the big problem will be if somebody will play a sudden reversal/wash to my dia de los muertos... any good idea to avoid this ?? or any plan B i can follow if this happens to get my Brinkmanship inn without vote ?? Thanks for any help ^^ Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 23, Max: 28, Avg: 6.33) 1 Billy AUS dom for 5 Ventrue Antitribu 3 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6 Harbingers of Skulls 1 Charice Fontaigne for pot AUS DOM6 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Marlene AUS dem DOM for tha6 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Sheila Mezarin AUS cel for PRE6 Toreador Antitribu 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf7 Harbingers of Skulls 1 Omaya ANI AUS FOR pro7 Gangrel Antitribu 1 Blackhorse Tanner AUS DOM FOR 7 Ventrue Antitribu Library: (76 cards) Master (32 cards) 3 Parthenon, The 2 Therbold Realty 6 Slaughterhouse, The 2 Vessel 4 Villein 1 Erciyes Fragments, The 1 Día de los Muertos 1 Bleeding the Vine 2 Protected Resources 2 Storage Annex 1 Elder Library 1 Secure Haven 1 Hungry Coyote, The 1 Demonstration 1 Sunset Strip, Hollywood 1 Festivo dello Estinto 2 Fortitude Action (4 cards) 2 Zillah`s Tears 2 Harvest Rites Action Modifier (8 cards) 2 Daring the Dawn 2 Call of the Hungry Dead 4 Freak Drive Political Action (2 cards) 2 Brinksmanship Reaction (13 cards) 2 My Enemy`s Enemy 3 Telepathic Counter 4 Telepathic Misdirection 2 On the Qui Vive 2 Eyes of Argus Combat (14 cards) 4 Hidden Strength 4 Indomitability 2 Resilience 1 Rolling with the Punches 1 Skin of Steel 2 Superior Mettle Equipment (3 cards) 1 Sacre Cour Cathedral, France 1 Erebus Mask 1 Shaal Fragment

> malkavianbarcelona wrote: > I think the big problem will be if somebody will play a sudden reversal/wash to my dia de los muertos... any good idea to avoid this ?? or any plan B i can follow if this happens to get my Brinkmanship inn without vote ?? > At some point, you can't handle everything. If you can't put your Brinkmanship into play, just play the game and try ousting your prey using other means, that is bleed in your case. > malkavianbarcelona wrote: > But... If I bleed with trochomancy I don't win via brinkamnship... My objective is win milling not bleeding > This should be your prefered way of winning, but not your objective. Objective in the game is to gain VPs. (I'd hate to have an ally that gives up just because he can't play Brinkmanship, when he could oust his prey using other means). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I still think the master section is still too large and not all the cards there are needed for your purpose, they slow you down and cost a lot of pool still if you do not get an early Therbold Realty. As Ankha said, it is cool if you can pull off Brinksmanship oust but in many games you need to be flexible and change the plan to get your VP. Suggestion to make it more like a wall deck: -3 Parthenon, The -2 Therbold Realty - 1 Bleeding the Vine (costs too much pool to use) - 1/2 Protected Resources (not needed if you go wall) - 2 Storage Annex - 1 Elder Library - 1 Secure Haven - 2 Fortitude +2 Dreams of the Sphynx +1 The Rack +1 Power Base Montreal +1 Pentex Subversion +2 Abbott +1 revelations (if you think your prey is holding a Sudden Reversal/DI for Dia de los Muertos/Brinksmanship) +1 Ivory bow +1 Bowl of Convergence +2 trochomancy (golden when facing Ashur decks) +3 Weighted Walking Stick + 1 My Enemy`s Enemy + 2 Telepathic Misdirection + 2 On the Qui Vive + 2 Eyes of Argus

Hello, Slaughterhouses alone are not very good way of milling. They are relatively slow and you also need some way to get that one last card from your preys hand to force him/her to withdraw. Otherwise he/she can just sit with full hand ad infinitum. They probably won't win the game, but neither will you. And should you actually oust your first prey you have to start the process anew with each Methuselah. If you really want to stick to Slaughterhouses, I second Borrelstein in adding a bunch of Revelations to your deck. Otherwise I suggest you going full wall and equipment based combat. Ditch most of your extra masters, Add 2-3 Constant revolution and equal amount of Smiling Jack. This will make you an enemy of entire table, but it's not such a leap as playing with Slaughterhouses as you already had two predators. As for passing Brinksmanship, Dia de los Muertos is quite good. For low vote meta, couple of Telepathic Vote Counting combined with cardinal benediction and single Cryptic Rider is good plan B. If you go Cryptic Rider Route, some other vote than getting title might be better. Negotiating KRC to pass 2 to your prey and 2 to some other target should be quite easy. I hope you can make this work

i cant see synergy fo anarch cards if deck is sabbat ?_? how i can play dia de los muertos and constant revolution ?? Your making me confusion

Anyways... again i made the cut. After advices deck stays like this...: Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 23, Max: 28, Avg: 6.33) 3 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6 Harbingers of Skulls 1 Billy AUS dom for 5 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Blackhorse Tanner AUS DOM FOR 7 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Charice Fontaigne for pot AUS DOM6 Ventrue Antitribu 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf7 Harbingers of Skulls 1 Marlene AUS dem DOM for tha6 Ventrue Antitribu 1 Omaya ANI AUS FOR pro7 Gangrel Antitribu 1 Sheila Mezarin AUS cel for PRE6 Toreador Antitribu Library: (80 cards) Master (22 cards) 1 Día de los Muertos 1 Erciyes Fragments, The 2 Fortitude 6 Slaughterhouse, The 1 Storage Annex 2 Vessel 4 Villein 2 Dreams of the Sphinx 2 Smiling Jack, The Anarch 1 Metro Underground Action (6 cards) 2 Constant Revolution 4 Revelations Action Modifier (12 cards) 2 Call of the Hungry Dead 2 Daring the Dawn 4 Freak Drive 4 Trochomancy Political Action (2 cards) 2 Brinksmanship Reaction (16 cards) 4 Eyes of Argus 3 My Enemy`s Enemy 4 On the Qui Vive 5 Telepathic Misdirection Combat (17 cards) 4 Hidden Strength 4 Indomitability 2 Resilience 1 Rolling with the Punches 1 Skin of Steel 2 Superior Mettle 3 Weighted Walking Stick Equipment (5 cards) 1 Erebus Mask 1 Sacre Cour Cathedral, France 1 Shaal Fragment 1 Ivory Bow 1 Bowl of Convergence

> malkavianbarcelona wrote: > i cant see synergy fo anarch cards if deck is sabbat ?_? how i can play dia de los muertos and constant revolution ?? Your making me confusion > Sorry if my advice was not clear. You only need one anarch to play the Constant Revolution and only one sabbat to play Dia de los Muertos. I'd say you can stay mostly Sabbat, and mayby change in 2 anarch convert to crypt, dropping Marlene and Charice now that your not using dominate anymore. If you don't happen to draw your converts, no biggie just use the cardless action to go anarch with one vampire. When I said equipment based combat, I meant guns, preferably .44/snipers. You will be doing so much blocking that transient combat will run out at some point. Below you can find somewhat trimmed version. Ventrue antitribu were dropped from crypt and replaced with AUS weenies and Anarch Converts, and one Gisella was returned to the crypt simply because she has title. Combat section was stripped down to guns, concealed weapons and some auspex tricks. Aura reading is so very nice with Agaitas's special. I'm also tempted to remove cathedral and mask, but maybe you need them in your meta. There is single prayer copy of Under Siege in library to increase block ability. This angle could be build upon by replacing Billy with Cicatriz. He has wrong disciplines but is only a 5 cap, has title and discard special to combo with Agaitas. Or if you feel you need more votes maybe that 5 cap Laibon magaji. Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=1 max=7 avg=4.92) =============================================== 3x Agaitas, The Scholar of Antiquities 6 for AUS NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2 2x Anarch Convert 1 Caitiff:ANY 1x Billy 5 dom for AUS !Ventrue:2 2x Egothha 7 obf AUS FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2 1x General Perfidio Díos 5 dem obf AUS !Malkavian:3 1x Gisela Harden, The Winnower 7 aus dem FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2 1x Idalia, Prophet of Guadalajara 4 dem AUS !Malkavian:2 1x Remilliard, Devout Crusader 4 pre AUS !Toreador:2 Library (70 cards) ================== Master (15) 2x Dreams of the Sphinx 1x Día de los Muertos 1x Erciyes Fragments, The 1x Metro Underground 4x Slaughterhouse, The 2x Smiling Jack, The Anarch 2x Vessel 2x Villein Action (6) 2x Constant Revolution 3x Revelations 1x Under Siege Political Action (2) 2x Brinksmanship Equipment (9) 3x .44 Magnum 1x Bowl of Convergence 1x Erebus Mask 1x Ivory Bow 1x Sacre Cour Cathedral, France 2x Sniper Rifle Retainer (1) 1x Mr. Winthrop Action Modifier (10) 2x Call of the Hungry Dead 2x Daring the Dawn 3x Freak Drive 1x Telepathic Vote Counting 2x Trochomancy Reaction (15) 4x Eyes of Argus 3x My Enemy's Enemy 4x On the Qui Vive 4x Telepathic Misdirection Combat (12) 3x Aura Reading 3x Concealed Weapon 2x Hidden Strength 2x Indomitability 2x Read Intentions

Time to take it to the test! Build the thing and start playing

Thanks whisker for take your time and advice me !!! two things... 70 cards for block + combo mill deck !?? it's not supoused that block decks work with 90 to have more endurance than their counterparts ?? i will try to go with less than or 80 cards, adding some stuff i belive i need. But anyways at least i will try once with 70 cards configuration. I will be so gratefull if you share your thoughs about my concerns in this matter. It's Tappestry of blood a good card for this deck ?? Thanks for having time to answer ^^