Bleeding with caution

Was just wondering, besides all the normal tactics for not ousting your grandprey with bigbleeds, did any of you tr out the combination of slow withering and Narrow Minds? Tel misdirection costs 3 then... and deflecttion will be played at inf a lot i think... Could work, right? Just need to get it in play at the right time. I have used Veil of darkness-Slow Withering as anti-bounce teck a lot, as you can look that up with fortshrit, but Narrow minds is more difficult. People wont like you if you play Veil and slwo withering though... W

> Cooper wrote: > Was just wondering, besides all the normal tactics for not ousting your grandprey with bigbleeds, did any of you tr out the combination of slow withering and Narrow Minds? Tel misdirection costs 3 then... and deflecttion will be played at inf a lot i think... Could work, right > I mean, if you have them both in play at the same time, and your deck isn't being hosed as well (i.e. you are playing, like, weenie obf with Computer Hacking and Leverage for bleeding), that combo could work very well as a way to prevent too much bouncing. But Narrow Minds by itself will usually do just as well, and is much less likely to have everyone at the table hate you than playing Slow Withering (which makes everyone cranky). Given that unless you have multiples of both in your deck, and even then, you probably aren't that likely to get them both in play at the same time, it will be hard to get them both in play, it is something that you could try and arrange for, but not something you can really rely on, most of the time.

If you're going to play Slow Withering, you might as well put in the Veil as well... no point generating moderate table-hate from everyone, go for gold or go home. One of my decks that is disciplineless specifically uses Veil + Withering. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

I would look into a disciplineless Black Hand Gehenna deck based on Nicomedes. Nicomedes Clan: Harbinger of Skulls (group 4) Capacity: 5 Disciplines: aus for nec vic Sabbat. Black Hand: Once each of your turns, Nicomedes may burn a blood to shuffle your hand into your library (draw afterward). Off the top of my head: - 60-70 card library - 4-6x Storage Annex, 1x Dreams, 1x Elder Library - 2-4x Wider View - 2-4x Dominion and 5x Change of Targets - 2x Remover if using Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers - Depending on the master count, 2-3x Villein/Lilith's Blessing or 2-3x Vessel/Perfectionist - 4-6x Concealed .44s or Zip Gun/Vitals - Abbot and Ministry for defense - Kamuts for bloat and acceleration - Guarded Rubrics and other bleed permanents for ousting - Tattoo Signal for Banjoko - Possibly Zillah's Tears to have some useful action after Change of Target - 10x events, possibly including NRA PAC for Darbying Lots of first turn masters. Storage Annex and Lilith's should have great synergy with Nicomedes. After playtesting I might try Teresita and Impundulu. The latter can slowly kill off allies. If Concealing proves difficult I'd try 1x Drop Point Network.

Deck Name : Duelling Banjokos Author : Juggernaut1981 Description : Black Hand Disciplineless Deck Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 5 average: 4.41667 5x Banjoko 5 DOM obt pot Lasombra:3 1x Aredhel 5 FOR VAL aus !Salubri:4 1x Colonel, The 5 AUS cel dem obf !Malkavian:3 1x Katherine Stoddard 4 dom for !Ventrue:3 1x Mariano Pomposo 4 aus cel pot !Brujah:3 1x Mosfair 4 cel dom tha !Tremere:4 1x Roger Farnsworth 4 OBF aus !Malkavian:3 1x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3 Library [75 cards] Action [14] 4x Abbot 8x Reunion Kamut 2x Tattoo Signal [added after Pendargon's post and I realised my absent mindedness] Action Modifier [14] 8x Seraph's Second 6x Stealth Ritus Ally [2] 2x Marijava Thuggee Combat [8] 8x Target Vitals Equipment [1] 1x Guarded Rubrics Master [16] 6x Dominion 2x Heidelberg Castle, Germany 2x Pentex(TM) Loves You! 4x Tribute to the Master 2x Watchtower: Four Ride Forth Reaction [20] 8x Ministry 6x Wake with Evening's Freshness 6x Watch Commander Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

No Tattoo signal?

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Deck Name : Duelling Banjokos > Author : Juggernaut1981 > Description : > Black Hand Disciplineless Deck > > Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 5 average: 4.41667 > 5x Banjoko 5 DOM obt pot Lasombra:3 > 1x Aredhel 5 FOR VAL aus !Salubri:4 > 1x Colonel, The 5 AUS cel dem obf !Malkavian:3 > 1x Katherine Stoddard 4 dom for !Ventrue:3 > 1x Mariano Pomposo 4 aus cel pot !Brujah:3 > 1x Mosfair 4 cel dom tha !Tremere:4 > 1x Roger Farnsworth 4 OBF aus !Malkavian:3 > 1x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3 > > Library [73 cards] > Action [12] > 4x Abbot > 8x Reunion Kamut > > Action Modifier [14] > 8x Seraph's Second > 6x Stealth Ritus > > Ally [2] > 2x Marijava Thuggee > > Combat [8] > 8x Target Vitals > > Equipment [1] > 1x Guarded Rubrics > > Master [16] > 6x Dominion > 2x Heidelberg Castle, Germany > 2x Pentex(TM) Loves You! > 4x Tribute to the Master > 2x Watchtower: Four Ride Forth > > Reaction [20] > 8x Ministry > 6x Wake with Evening's Freshness > 6x Watch Commander > -1 Abbot, -1 Reunion Kamut, -1 Target Vitals, -1 Dominion, -1 Heidelberg, -1 Pentex, -1 Watchtower, -6 Watch Commander. +2 !Malks, +2 Sibyl's Tongue, +1 Drop Point Network, +6 Deflection, +2 Tattoo Signal, +3 Wider View. (=74 cards) And there's no excuse to use Aredhel over Nicomedes in this deck. Both are 5-cap Black Hands but the other has an insanely useful special.

If you're not going to play a single discipline card, you might as well consider packing some events.

> Pascal wrote: > If you're not going to play a single discipline card, you might as well consider packing some events. > Yeah, I was wondering too. I thought this is all about Events against bleedbounce. Baron of Frankfurt

Blood Weakens, Slow Withering, Veil of Darkness, Narrow Minds, NSA Trio, eventually Recalled to the Founder, Scourge of the Enochiians.

i like the sound of that deck,... but i am not so sure if it is the right edeck for the anti-bounce teck we were discussing. (veil-withering-narrow). Reason is that i would play it in a deck that bleeds bigger than this does. But i will get back to you about taht, W

I consider anti-bleed cards more as a defense against bleeds going towards your predator than a safe way of getting your bleeds through. Especially in this deck with Target Vitals and Thuggees. Maybe you can squeeze some Neighbourhood Watch Commanders in there too.

Deck Name : Duelling Banjokos Author : Juggernaut1981 Description : Black Hand Disciplineless Deck Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 5 average: 4.41667 5x Banjoko 5 DOM obt pot Lasombra:3 2x Nicomedes 5 aus for nec vic Harbinger:4 1x Katherine Stoddard 4 dom for !Ventrue:3 1x Mariano Pomposo 4 aus cel pot !Brujah:3 1x Mosfair 4 cel dom tha !Tremere:4 1x Roger Farnsworth 4 OBF aus !Malkavian:3 1x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3 Library [80 cards] Action [12] 4x Abbot 8x Reunion Kamut Action Modifier [14] 8x Seraph's Second 6x Stealth Ritus Ally [2] 2x Marijava Thuggee Combat [8] 8x Target Vitals Equipment [1] 1x Guarded Rubrics Event [6] 1x Blood Weakens 1x Dr. Marisa Fletcher, CDC 1x Hunger Moon 1x Narrow Minds 1x Slow Withering, The 1x Veil of Darkness Master [17] 6x Dominion 2x Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1x Hungry Coyote, The 2x Pentex(TM) Loves You! 4x Tribute to the Master 2x Watchtower: Four Ride Forth Reaction [20] 8x Ministry 6x Wake with Evening's Freshness 6x Watch Commander Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

heh imeant the first deck. I already played a deck like that of your Juggernaut. Actually

This is a version i played a lot 1x Piotr Andreikov 1x Mosfair 1x Roger Farnsworth 1x Mariano Pomposo 1x Katherine Stoddard 4x Banjoko Teresita 2x nicomedes Admonitions, The 1x Remover 1x Pentex Subversion 1x Fortschritt Library 1x Drop Point Network 2x Watchtower: The Wolves Feed 2x Creepshow Casino 1x Blood Doll 2x Census Taker 2x Direct intervention 2x vessel 1x Black Hand Ritual 7x Bloodwork 7x Reunion Kamut 3x Black Hand Emissary 3x Emergency Powers 3x Tattoo Signal 1x Art of Memory, The 5x Stealth Ritus 2x Watchtower: Greatest Fall 6x Kine Resources Contested Ministry 5x Truth in Ink 2x On the Qui Vive 1x Wake Narrow Minds 4x Dodge 1x Alia, 1x Heart of Nizchetus malajit 1x Anthelios, the Red Star 1x Break the Code 1x Slow Withering, The 1x Veil of Darkness 7x Change of target zaire 1x Kine 1x Carlton 1x Aranthebes 1x Mylan .44 Crusade: Berlin ambulance The point from this deck is to take as many 1/2s actions as possible. Their intercept will run out. Bloodwork (innate stealth or stealth ritus) untap with CoT or tattoo, get tooled up (getting votes in play is critical), Kamuts and then KRC's. It is a very versatile and fun deck to play. Pretend you play the emissary and emergency only for tablevotes as defense. The KRC's you can hold on playing until you are set up. or the other way around, when appropriate. Pretend to be a political deck, and suddenly come in with multiple stealthed bleeds for 2.

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > 1x Guarded Rubrics > > 2x Heidelberg Castle, Germany > The ratio seems backwards. At the very least I would run some Vast Wealths since you're bleed power is pretty dependent on Guarded Rubrics. > 6x Dominion > It will take a while to get 6 unique vampires from this crypt without any Wider Views.

Well if you're still using most of your transfers to get out vampires instead of using Reunion Kamuts... then sure it might take a while. Plus if you notice, this thing is more wall-ish than bleed-ish. 6x Dominion is more about playing the odds than putting one on every Black Hand. Getting one early will significantly improve your mid-to-late game position. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Getting back to this... I dont think the disciplinless approach is a good one. You need to use the "no-one is able to bounce" more than the rest of the table. So in order for this tactic to actually help, you need to bleed hard. Any thoughts?