Foundation (card submission)

Foundation Action +1 stealth action Requires a laibon vampire Put this card in play. If the acting laibon vampire is a magaji untap him or her if this action is successful. All Laibon vampires are considered as having one additional Aye and one Orun. Any titled vampire can burn this card as a D action. Compelling game need: Aye and Orun decks are choked on masters. The mechanic can be interesting, but dedicating 8+ cards to make the Aye and Orun cards do anything is very discouraging. They also tend to lend themselves to star vampire decks because it is unrealistic to have more than 1 vampire with 3+ Aye or Orun. That limits the Aye or Orun mechanic and makes for Pentex bait. Game reference: none Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

> brandonsantacruz wrote: > Foundation > Action > > +1 stealth action > Requires a Laibon. > Put this card in play and untap this vampire is he or she is magaji. All Laibon vampires are considered as having 1 additional Aye and 1 additional Orun. Any titled vampire can burn this card as a action. > It's not unique, which can be quite powerful. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Maybe make it so that this card goes on a vampire, and a vampire can have only one?

> self wrote: > Maybe make it so that this card goes on a vampire, and a vampire can have only one? > Nope, It should be very strong to compensate for how weak the Aye and Orun mechanic is currently. It still makes sense to use Aye and Orun master cards because they have abilities that can trigger in and of themselves, but this would help for a for non- "tap x aye or orun to y" abilities. The card may need to be ironed out because Aye and Orun is normally on a vampire. Maybe something like this: Foundation +1 stealth action Requires a laibom Put this card on the acting vampire and untap him or her. This card is considered an Aye and an Orun. Other laibon vampires are considered to have an additional Aye and an additional Orun. This card can be burned by a titled vampire as a D action. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

Well, I've never played with Laibon, so I don't really understand either mechanic, but what if you just had an action like Epiphany that allowed you to search through your deck for an Aye or Orun card and put it on the acting minion (followed by an untap). You could even include the option of taking one of these cards from hand and/or ash heap. This way, you would still need to have plenty of Aye and Orun in your deck (which is a downside all by itself), but now you have a way to thin your deck while also getting your Aye / Orun set up. Check out my VTES blog: Gaming with BS I also host a google doc which separates the TWDA into clans . That means I track how often clans win, which crypt groups get used, and how many people attend events. You can access all of that info here:

While that does help the Aye/Orun mechanic some, I feel like it doesn't do nearly enough. For the reasons I mentioned before the mechanic is weak and no half measures will really significantly improve things. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

Another alternative: +1 stealth action Requires a laibon vampire Put this card in play. If the acting vampire is a magaji untap him or her if this action is successful. Each Aye and Orun in play counts as two for effects tallying Aye or Orun. Any titled vampire can burn this card as an D action. Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

And would this really break the game? +1 stealth action Requires a laibon vampire You may search search library and / or ash heap for X Aye or Orun where is X the number of laibon you control. You may place these cards on one or more laibon you control. If the acting vampire is a magaji untap him or her if this action is successful. Doubt it. Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

The problem with orun/aye is they just suck. In vtm, they act more as a bolt-on humanity-like score. Not a 9-card hat that is USELESS without brutal influence. If orun/aye were treated right, it wouldve been like humanitas/archetypes/whatever. They take up deck space for nominally weak extras. Fishing up a billion helps brutal influence. I can assume Darby is giggling at the idea of something that sets up bleeds of a billion and governs for 12. Burn clause is less than meaningful on that card. Now, "treat this as A/O for everyone" sounds cool, im just unsure its worth making at this point. Again, because orun/aye take stupid amounts of setup for limited gain.

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > The problem with orun/aye is they just suck. > > In vtm, they act more as a bolt-on humanity-like score. Not a 9-card hat that is USELESS without brutal influence. > > If orun/aye were treated right, it wouldve been like humanitas/archetypes/whatever. They take up deck space for nominally weak extras. > > Fishing up a billion helps brutal influence. I can assume Darby is giggling at the idea of something that sets up bleeds of a billion and governs for 12. Burn clause is less than meaningful on that card. > > Now, "treat this as A/O for everyone" sounds cool, im just unsure its worth making at this point. Again, because orun/aye take stupid amounts of setup for limited gain. > IMO it is basically either better to ignore Aye or Orun or make them a lot better. I've been sitting in the first camp a long time, but would like to consider the latter. As you say, Aye and Orun suck right now. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

Brandon, im all for making wallpaper playable, but im still stuck on"how many deck slots!?!" Every time. Is it better to re-work the concept or add better incintive to stack so many on a vamp? Looking at other mechanics, Anarch is worth it, but has help and doesnt junk up your deck. Redlist is SOOOOO the king of incentives for combos, but only Norm has faith in it working. Research/Developement is a combo to do combos, and i see moving pieces and wasted slots as an enemy of progess. Would better support make it better, or a re-haul? I cant decide which. But im only half-vested. Abombwe and no secrets are enough for me....