Rotschreck

Can you play Rotschreck against a vampire that treats aggravated damage as normal? For example, can you play it on Karsh or against a vampire with superior Elemental Stoicism or Armor of Terra on them? I think yes, but I'm not sure. Thanks! Rötschreck Master Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy. Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card. Elemental Stoicism [Action] Action [Combat] Combat [Fortitude] Fortitude & [Obfuscate] Obfuscate [for] Prevent 1 non-aggravated damage. [for] [obf] This vampire treats all aggravated damage as normal damage for the remainder of combat. [FOR] [obf] +1 stealth action. Put this card on this acting vampire. The vampire with this card treats aggravated damage done in combat as normal damage. Burn this card if the vampire goes to torpor. Karsh (see Advanced) [ANI] [CEL] [FOR] [POT] [PRO] [Gangrel] Gangrel Capacity: 10 Group: 3 Camarilla: Karsh may enter combat with a tapped non-Camarilla vampire controlled by another Methuselah as a action. Once each round, he can burn 1 blood to treat aggravated damage as normal damage for the current round. Armor of Terra [Action] Action [Visceratika] Visceratika [Thaumaturgy] Thaumaturgy [1 Blood] +1 stealth action. [tha] Put this card on a slave Gargoyle you control. The Gargoyle with this card treats aggravated damage as normal damage. Burn this card if this Gargoyle goes to torpor. A Gargoyle can have only one Armor of Terra. [vis] As [tha] above, but put this card on this acting Gargoyle. [VIS] As [vis] above, and the Gargoyle with this card may prevent 1 damage each combat.

> mjvtes521 wrote: > Can you play Rotschreck against a vampire that treats aggravated damage as normal? For example, can you play it on Karsh or against a vampire with superior Elemental Stoicism or Armor of Terra on them? I think yes, but I'm not sure. Thanks! > Rotschreck only cares about what the damage is - not how the recipient will treat it. [LSJ 20050310] > LSJ wrote: > > - Of the following cards, which will protect from a Rötschrek and why : > > Elemental Stoicism, Chill of Oblivion, Skin of Night, Jalal's special ? > (Jalal has no special that could be misconstrued to protect against > Rötschrek. Perhaps you meant Jalan-Aajav). > > ... > > none of them. > > Rötschrek doesn't care how the target will treat incoming agg, only that > the agg is incoming. >

That's what I figured. What an overpowered card Rotschreck is. Provided that the opposing vamp can attempt to inflict aggravated damage, it can only be stopped by Psyche and Telepathic Tracking or a cross table sudden, right?

Can be stopped by lots of cards that cancel frenzies. Traveller Card Game

> mjvtes521 wrote: > That's what I figured. What an overpowered card Rotschreck is. Provided that the opposing vamp can attempt to inflict aggravated damage, it can only be stopped by Psyche and Telepathic Tracking or a cross table sudden, right? > As well as those two, you can also use Hidden Lurker, Fast Reaction, and Coordinate Attacks. As ICL points out, there are quite a few frenzy cancellers out there - Abombwe has a lot, but there's also Sire's Index Finger. With SIF, Rotschreck can still be played, but you're immune to the effect. (Combat ends, but you ignore the rest of the stuff. [FZD 20130425] ) There are a variety of ways of stopping Rotschreck being played, which can be particularly effective against aggro-poke - Rotschreck is only playable if the strike will be effective at the current range, so if you can go and sit at long range against aggro-poke, Rotschreck isn't playable. Obviously, this is less good vs guns+DBR or an Ivory Bow, but it's still something. OBviously, if you can take the ranged strike out too - maybe a Drawing out the Beast (no equipment), or an Immortal Grapple (close only).

I meant cards that people actually use regularly. Outside of Akunanse decks, Fakir and a few Laibons, not too many people have Abombwe cards. There is also Blade of Enoch, which at least has another effect besides the frenzy immunity (but only for vamps with capacity above 5). There are also a few vamps that are immune. Rotschreck is still a game changer and one of the most overpowered cards in the game, if not the most, IMO. Thanks for the help guys.

You can outplay Rotschreck. After all they can only play 1 per round of turns. It's also fairly easy to spot decks that are likely to play it and even those decks are likely to only play a few of them. Madness Network with Rotschreck is a fun gimmick though! Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

> Ke. wrote: > Madness Network with Rotschreck is a fun gimmick though! > It's fractionally less annoying than it used to be. Because there's no longer a separate "Madness Network+Enkil Cog" bit in the minion phase, the Methuselah whose turn it is has the priority to take the next action - it just uses the normal sequencing rules, so the Methuselah whose turn it is always gets the next opportunity. So if such a deck is looking like it's about to hose the entire table (very possible in a low-combat environment), it's possible to get your vampire rescued and/or have a vampire leave torpor by arranging to have vampires left untapped - either your own, or by striking a deal with other people, depending on whose turn the OOT rush is happening. So it's potentially to thwart a Madness Network rush followed up by a Madness Network diablerie. Not foolproof, by any means, but tangibly less annoying than it used to be. Of course, my instinctive response to almost anyone playing Madness Network is to burn it with extreme prejudice. Leave aside Rotschreck, I don't want to be bled in my own turn, so my predator knows I can't play Archon Investigation. I don't want to be bled in my own turn, so my predator can DI my Wake or my bounce. I don't want to be bled repeatedly, by someone use Freak Drive at the end of each action and then bleeding again in the next Methuselah's turn. Of course, it's still possible for - say - a Thaumaturgy Wall (Burst, Flames of the Netherworld), a Tzimisce Wall (Breath), or a gun wall (DBR) to use it effectively in small-ish quantities.

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > mjvtes521 wrote: > > Can you play Rotschreck against a vampire that treats aggravated damage as normal? For example, can you play it on Karsh or against a vampire with superior Elemental Stoicism or Armor of Terra on them? I think yes, but I'm not sure. Thanks! > > > Rotschreck only cares about what the damage is - not how the recipient will treat it. > > [LSJ ] > > > LSJ wrote: > > > - Of the following cards, which will protect from a Rötschrek and why : > > > Elemental Stoicism, Chill of Oblivion, Skin of Night, Jalal's special ? > > (Jalal has no special that could be misconstrued to protect against > > Rötschrek. Perhaps you meant Jalan-Aajav). > > > > ... > > > > none of them. > > > > Rötschrek doesn't care how the target will treat incoming agg, only that > > the agg is incoming. > > Correct. It's also good to know that all cards that /change/ the damage type from agg to normal have been reworded, and now cannot be used to avoid Rötschreck any longer.

There are some questions about Rotschreck: 1) Can it be played by player, whose minions don't involving in combat? 2) When can it be played? For example, strike with aggravated damage. May Rotschreck be played: a) when strike was declared b) after opposing minion played cards (as prevent or combat ends)

@Keiran. 1. Yes can be played even by a Meth not involved in the combat. 2. As the strike is played.

> Keiran wrote: > 2) When can it be played? > For example, strike with aggravated damage. May Rotschreck be played: > a) when strike was declared > b) after opposing minion played cards (as prevent or combat ends) > > blackday wrote: > 2. As the strike is played. > No, it's more flexible than that. vekn.net/card-rulings/card-rulings-p-to-z Rotschreck is played when the attempt to use aggravated damage is announced, during the strike announcement phase (before any damage prevention can be played). It can be played after the other strike is announced, however. [LSJ 19990217] [LSJ 19990217] > > LSJ wrote: > If the agg damage is coming from a strike, Rotschreck can be played any > time during the "announce strike" phase in which that strike is announced, > yes. > > Mostly this has no effect, since the acting minion declares first and > Rotschreck cannot be played on your own turn. But for MadNet actions, > Primal Instincts, and Rapid Thought could make this question more > interesting, of course (as can 3rd-party intervention). > And Rotschreck doesn't just deal with strikes - if the minion inflicts agg damage at other times, that can also work with Rotschreck. e.g. aggravated Outside the Hourglass, aggravated Pulled Fangs. (Imagine things like Dawn Operation in the mix.)

> Rotschreck is played when the attempt to use aggravated damage is announced, during the strike announcement phase (before any damage prevention can be played). It can be played after the other strike is announced, however. [LSJ 19990217] > There are a few issues with the [LSJ 19990217] ruling above and its interaction with the rulebook. It refers to a "strike announcement phase." There is no formal "strike announcement phase." Section 6.4.1 of the rulebook indicates there is a "strike phase," wherein strikes are "announced and resolved." Referring to a step in a phase as a phase itself is confusing. The rulebook then uses "choose strike" instead of "announce strike" in 6.4.3. From context, I assume "choose strike" is intended to mean the same thing as "announce strike" (the detailed play summary uses "announce strikes" instead of "choose strikes" [6.4.3]). This also confusing. The rulebook should just use "announce strikes" throughout.