[submission] Take away

Name: Take away Cardtype: combat Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. Strike: opposing minion can only use hand strikes until range is set to long this combat, the opposing minion also takes 1 damage when range is set to long this combat or when combat ends. Flavor text: Up up and away! - Superman? Art notes: Gargoyles picking up vampires into the air. World of Darkness reference: (I actually got this idea from watching the Nazgul picking up soldiers and dropping them in Lord of the Rings… Gargoyles can do that too!) How does this card address a compelling game need?: This is actually a fun alternative to Immortal Grapple with the emphasis on flight and just adds more dynamics to Flight. Created by: Ben Gerrissen -1 Strength

> GreyB wrote: > Take away > Card type: combat > Disciplines: Flight > Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > Strike: opposing minion can only use hand strikes this combat until either range is set to long or combat ends, in which case the opposing minion takes 2 damage. > > Name: Take away > Cardtype: combat > Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) > Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > Strike: opposing minion can only use hand strikes this combat until either range is set to long or combat ends, in which case the opposing minion takes 2 damage. > I don't understand when the opposing minion takes 2 damage (and what are the conditions?) Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> I don't understand when the opposing minion takes 2 damage (and what are the conditions?) > Reworded and reduced the "drop" damage. -1 Strength

> GreyB wrote: > Name: Take away > Cardtype: combat > Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) > Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > Strike: opposing minion can only use hand strikes until range is set to long this combat, the opposing minion also takes 1 damage when range is set to long this combat or when combat ends. > It's not at all clear what you're trying to do. Two of us are in combat. I choose my strike. It's Majesty. You choose your strike. It's Take away. Strike resolution: Majesty resolves, combat ends, thanks for coming, have a safe journey home. Your strike has not resolved, so none of the strike's effect is at all relevant.

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > GreyB wrote: > > Name: Take away > > Cardtype: combat > > Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) > > Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > > Strike: opposing minion can only use hand strikes until range is set to long this combat, the opposing minion also takes 1 damage when range is set to long this combat or when combat ends. > > > It's not at all clear what you're trying to do. > > Two of us are in combat. I choose my strike. It's Majesty. You choose your strike. It's Take away. > > Strike resolution: Majesty resolves, combat ends, thanks for coming, have a safe journey home. Your strike has not resolved, so none of the strike's effect is at all relevant. > Err, isn't that always the case with combat ends or even an ordinary dodge? Another grapple strike is Grasp of the Python , which is also nullified with combat ends/dodge... We could also take away the strike component and we end up with an alternative and maybe more powerful Immortal Grapple, since it's hand strikes only until specific condition is met. Which might be ok since flight is a very limited attribute, way less available than potence in any case. If no strike component, than we need to remove the damage component as well to balance it (imo). Name: Take away Cardtype: combat Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. Only hand strikes are permitted by either combatant this combat until range is set to long. Or alternatively, we could remove the grapple effect and focus more on the fact that the opposing minion is grabbed and taken up into the air, which means if the minion frees himself, he/she drops and takes damage. Name: Take away Cardtype: combat Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) Grapple. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. When opposing minion maneuvers to long range, that minion takes 3 damage and the effect of this card is canceled. Only one Take away can be played each round. Both options I'm fine with and I think the latter option is more inline with the theme of the card. -1 Strength

> GreyB wrote: > > > jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > > > GreyB wrote: > > > Name: Take away > > > Cardtype: combat > > > Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) > > > Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > > > Strike: opposing minion can only use hand strikes until range is set to long this combat, the opposing minion also takes 1 damage when range is set to long this combat or when combat ends. > > > > > > > > It's not at all clear what you're trying to do. > > > > Two of us are in combat. I choose my strike. It's Majesty. You choose your strike. It's Take away. > > > > Strike resolution: Majesty resolves, combat ends, thanks for coming, have a safe journey home. Your strike has not resolved, so none of the strike's effect is at all relevant. > > > Err, isn't that always the case with combat ends or even an ordinary dodge? > Sure, but you weren't touting this as any old combat card that happens to be a grapple, you were touting this as an alternative to Immortal Grapple. This is actually a fun alternative to Immortal Grapple with the emphasis on flight and just adds more dynamics to Flight. If fun is a euphemism for "terrible", then I guess so, because people can S:CE and Dodge, and you do no damage to them, and the strike doesn't do anything else. So instead of, you know, actually damaging a vampire, you let them get off with no ill effect at all. There are 17 Gargoyle vampires. There are 15 Gargoyle vampires with at least inferior Potence. (Fidus and Rusticus don't have any.) Since this card, as drafte above, requires you to be at close range in exactly the same way as Immortal Grapple, it's not at all clear why you wouldn't just play Immortal Grapple and punch them to death on the first round. > GreyB wrote: > Name: Take away > Cardtype: combat > Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) > Grapple. Only usable at close range. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > Only hand strikes are permitted by either combatant this combat until range is set to long. > Unless relying heavily on Fidus or Rusticus, the press from superior Immortal Grapple (with automatic close range) is a very tempting prospect. If playing with Tremere/!Tremere for slavery, Potence is relatively easily available among them, including a few tasty mid-caps e.g. Antonio d'Erlette and Esoara - certainly much easier than finding Tremere or !Tremere with flight. It's easier to cycle cards if you have compatible disciplines, even if you aren't necessarily planning on Antonio with pot/for being a combat machine. > GreyB wrote: > Name: Take away > Cardtype: combat > Discipline: Flight (not a discipline) > Grapple. Not usable if the opposing minion has flight. > When opposing minion maneuvers to long range, that minion takes 3 damage and the effect of this card is canceled. Only one Take away can be played each round. > Plausibly interesting, but it puts a heck of a lot of control into the hands of your opponent - and random chance. Plenty of decks play no maneuvers at all.

Liftoff Combat Requires flight ( .) Grapple. Press. If combat ends, opponent takes two environmental damage. If combat continues, opponent takes two environmental damage and range is defaults to long during the maneuver phase. Edit: Opponent can cancel this card by playing a grapple. It takes the concept of lifting your opponent and dropping them, but it takes place during the press step, and you either drop em and run or drop em and pounce Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.

> direwolf wrote: > Liftoff > Combat > Requires flight ( .) > Grapple. Press. If combat ends, opponent takes two environmental damage. If combat continues, opponent takes two environmental damage and range is defaults to long during the maneuver phase. Edit: Opponent can cancel this card by playing a grapple. > Technical problem: you probably want to make it more like "Opponent may discard a grapple card to cancel this card as it is played" to more closely follow the Target cards. They can't generally play grapples at this point. I could see this being interesting in a combat-heavy metagame, where you might find yourself being opposed by a lot of damage prevention or something like that, so you can't easily play Disarm. But in a somewhat more sleaze-ridden tournament environment - with a healthy proportion of Dem stealth bleed, Obfuscate Ventrue, any sort of Presence vote, lots of S:CE etc. to offset some of the stick-men grinders and the like - I'd expect it mostly to be better to play IG+Disarm, with maybe one or two of these for spice. In general, why go to a second round if you don't need to?