Can we get a Rules Team Ruling on Sarrasine (ADV) ?
Can you burn Sarrasine's corruption counters to take control of a minion, or do you need to play a card that has that text?
[Adv] Sarrasine (see non-Advanced)
[aus]
[nec]
[OBF]
[SER]
[Follower of Set] Follower of Set
Capacity: 8
Group: 2
Advanced, Camarilla Prince of Sydney.
[MERGED] If Sarrasine is ready during your untap phase, you can put 1 corruption counter on a minion controlled by your prey.
Corruption
[Action] Action
[Follower of Set] Follower of Set
+1 stealth action.
Put a corruption counter on a minion controlled by your prey. If the number of your corruption counters on the minion equals or exceeds the blood capacity of that vampire or the cost of that ally, you may burn all of your corruption counters on that minion to gain control of him or her.'
EDIT: I am assuming the card designer intent is that you can use Sarrasine's corruption counters without playing a card. However, the card text and rules of the game don't support that. I am sure playgroups are confused and or arguing about it on occasion. Errata?
> Lead wrote:
> Can you burn Sarrasine's corruption counters to take control of a minion, or do you need to play a card that has that text?
>
Merged Sarrasine does not grant the ability to take control of a minion with corruption counters. You will need to play a card that has that text.
Similarly, Revelation of Wrath and Weigh the Heart:
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1458
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1493
> BenPeal wrote:
>
> > Lead wrote:
> > Can you burn Sarrasine's corruption counters to take control of a minion, or do you need to play a card that has that text?
> >
> Merged Sarrasine does not grant the ability to take control of a minion with corruption counters. You will need to play a card that has that text.
>
> Similarly, Revelation of Wrath and Weigh the Heart:
>
> www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1458
>
> www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1493
>
We have the chance to have the designer's intent!
As Ben said, Corruption counters don't have any effect per se. You need cards that interact with them.
groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/h7BXc7Z-MTE/discussion
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> We have the chance to have the designer's intent!
>
The designer's intent was to not use more than four lines of text in the card's text box.
I've still never known the correct ruling. Does the text to steal only need to be played once ever? Or does it have to be the thing that causes the minion steal.
That is, if add a bunch of Corruption counters from Merged Sarrasine, then play 1 Corruption that steals the minion right then. But if I played 1 Corruption, then a bunch of Sarrasine counters, does that steal?
> Miasmat wrote:
> I've still never known the correct ruling. Does the text to steal only need to be played once ever? Or does it have to be the thing that causes the minion steal.
>
> That is, if add a bunch of Corruption counters from Merged Sarrasine, then play 1 Corruption that steals the minion right then. But if I played 1 Corruption, then a bunch of Sarrasine counters, does that steal?
>
4 cap target - 3 counters with Sarrasine special then Corruption to add fourth counter, successfully stolen. Your counters equals the cap.
4 cap target - one counter with Corruption then 3 counters with Sarrasine, nothing happens until you play Corruption (or similar effect with steal minion part in it), in this case your corruption counters exceeds the cap.
Corruption
Action
Follower of Set
+1 stealth action.
Put a corruption counter on a minion controlled by your prey. If the number of your corruption counters on the minion equals or exceeds the blood capacity of that vampire or the cost of that ally, you may burn all of your corruption counters on that minion to gain control of him or her.'
Marko, Prince of Helsinki
> Miasmat wrote:
> I've still never known the correct ruling. Does the text to steal only need to be played once ever? Or does it have to be the thing that causes the minion steal.
>
The final counter needs to have the "burn to take control blah blah blah" text. So you want the final counter to come from something like Corruption or Cave of Apples, not Sarrasine or Nefertiti. Earlier counters can come from any source.
How counters work is a little confusing, because a number of other sources of counters don't work in the same way as Corruption counters. For example:
- Vampiric Disease never goes in play and grants counters that have an effect and can be burned, even without the card being in play
- Sabbat Threat similarly
- Tegyrius's allegiance counters continue have an effect, even if Tegyrius leaves play
It's never been clear to me - textually - why Vampiric Disease counters, put in play by a transient card, work one way with an effect and burn clause persisting beyond resolution, but Corruption counters, also put in play by a transient card, work the other way, with the effect and burn clause being usable only during resolution.
However, whether from fiat or designer intent or something else, the line of rulings on Corruption counters has always been clear - you must have the activating text on the card or effect you're using to put the last Corruption counter in play.