PRO Loki's Gift is always (D)?

Is superior Loki's Gift directed, if I choose one of my own vampires as the target to lose blood? Particularly, can a Valkyrie play superior Loki's Gift targeting herself if Brunhilde isn't ready? > Loki's Gift > [Action] Action > > [Protean] Protean > > +1 stealth hunt action. > [pro] Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift. > [PRO] As above, and burn a blood from any vampire. This vampire may burn this card as above, or may burn it during a referendum to gain 2 votes. > Valkyrie relevent text: > > Valkyrie cannot perform actions unless Brunhilde is ready. >

The D symbol is a reminder. When you target a directed action at yourself (including a card you control), it is by definition now undirected. Both your predator and prey are eligible blockers, as for all undirected actions. Reminder: you can't enter combat with one of your own minions.

> Miasmat wrote: > Is superior Loki's Gift directed, if I choose one of my own vampires as the target to lose blood? > > Particularly, can a Valkyrie play superior Loki's Gift targeting herself if Brunhilde isn't ready? > > > Loki's Gift > > [Action] Action > > > > [Protean] Protean > > > > +1 stealth hunt action. > > [pro] Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift. > > [PRO] As above, and burn a blood from any vampire. This vampire may burn this card as above, or may burn it during a referendum to gain 2 votes. > > > Valkyrie relevent text: > > > > Valkyrie cannot perform actions unless Brunhilde is ready. > > Quoting the rulebook: > As a convenience, when a card describes an action that is typically directed at another Methuselah, the card's text will usually include a symbol as a reminder that the action is typically directed. > actions are not always directed. For instance, if you perform an action against yourself (or a minion you control), it is undirected: > If the action targets one or more other Methuselahs (or things controlled by other Methuselahs), then the action is called directed, and only the Methuselahs who are targeted (or control the targets) may use their ready untapped minions to attempt to block the action (going clockwise from the acting Methuselah, as usual). If the action is not directed at another Methuselah (or at something controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is called undirected and can be blocked by the acting Methuselah's prey or predator, with the prey getting the first opportunity to block. > So yes, a Valkyrie can play Loki's Gift at superior (provided she has superior Protean) by choosing another vampire you control. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

i think perhaps a good question, for those of us who are less familiar, is how would you use such a move to your advantage? UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > i think perhaps a good question, for those of us who are less familiar, is how would you use such a move to your advantage? > Largely, situations that you wouldn't necessarily hope to do, but which might come up in play. The only legal targets for the superior are your own vampires. e.g. you're down to a 1 on 1 fight vs an Imbued deck, or you're super early in the game and no-one else has a vampire out yet but you really want the plus votes. You have temporary control of a legal target (e.g. Mind Rape), and want to burn the blood from that vampire, even though you control it.

I was going with an empty vampire, takes the Loki's Gift action (cuz it's a hunt action), (meaninglessly) burns the blood, then gains the 1 blood from Loki's and has a way to get 2 votes/+1 stealth later.

> Miasmat wrote: > I was going with an empty vampire, takes the Loki's Gift action (cuz it's a hunt action), (meaninglessly) burns the blood, then gains the 1 blood from Loki's and has a way to get 2 votes/+1 stealth later. > I'm not sure you can order the burn a blood first, though I can't substantiate my hunch. Had I been asked in an off-the-cuff ruling in a live tournament situation, I'd have ruled that you did the things on the action in order - gain blood from the hunt, put the card on the vampire, burn the blood from the target. I'm pretty sure there's some obvious precedent that I'm missing, one way or the other, though - there should be something somewhere where it was arguable that due to the first half of an action resolving, the target of the second half becomes ineligible somehow (and it's been ruled that either that does happen, or it doesn't).

See Rötschreck vs Psyche! Name: Rötschreck Cardtype: Master Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy. Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card. Name: Psyche! Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Celerity [cel] Press. [CEL] Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion. If vampire A plays Psyche! to start a new combat after Rötschreck has been played on him or her, A gets the card, but isn't tapped and doesn't go to torpor. (you can't apply these effects before combat ends). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > See Rötschreck vs Psyche! > Yeah, that would probably do. I just couldn't find something along the same lines that was action-based and closer to the "action does more than one thing" style of Loki's Gift.

I read it as the SUP adds to the first sentence, since it doesn't much make sense to add it to the "A vampire can only have one Loki's Gift." So, I read the SUP as "Gain 1 blood and this card, and burn a blood from any vampire." so I figured that was good enough to make it simultaneous effects so I could order them how I like. The second and third sentence of the basic is just a description of what you can do with the card while it's on this vampire - the actual resolution of the action is all in the first sentence of the basic. But you're arguing that it's actually "Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift, and burn a blood from any vampire." which seems crazy-talk to me.

> Miasmat wrote: > I read it as the SUP adds to the first sentence, since it doesn't much make sense to add it to the "A vampire can only have one Loki's Gift." > > So, I read the SUP as "Gain 1 blood and this card, and burn a blood from any vampire." so I figured that was good enough to make it simultaneous effects so I could order them how I like. The second and third sentence of the basic is just a description of what you can do with the card while it's on this vampire - the actual resolution of the action is all in the first sentence of the basic. > > But you're arguing that it's actually "Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift, and burn a blood from any vampire." which seems crazy-talk to me. > not at all. You read it correctly, but you can't order the effects the way you want. So it's: gain 1, put the card on the vampire, burn 1 blood in that order. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director