pool reset

political action chosen methuselah now has 30 pool UDHR18/19/27

what? NC Russia

didn't think it needed much explanation. csometimes players accumulate 100+ ppol, being ale to do 70 pool damage in one action would benefit many and likely get the tble vote. raising yur own pool from 2-3 to 30 will probably not get as much table support howver with vote lock it is possible. perhaps this card idea needs a cost. not mcu room for tweakingi feel. UDHR18/19/27

yeah, sure

> mirddes wrote: > didn't think it needed much explanation. > > csometimes players accumulate 100+ ppol, being ale to do 70 pool damage in one action would benefit many and likely get the tble vote. > > raising yur own pool from 2-3 to 30 will probably not get as much table support howver with vote lock it is possible. > > perhaps this card idea needs a cost. not mcu room for tweakingi feel. > Any deck using Zillah's Valley will be able to get out 18 pool of vampires in no time and have the vote lock. So it will allow you to gain 18 pool in one political action... Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

it will only ever be able to reduce the pool of my deck, never raise it. once per game seems a fair clause UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > it will only ever be able to reduce the pool of my deck, never raise it. > It's probably a bad card for you then Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

gotta give someone a chance of beating my deck UDHR18/19/27

Pool Reset Worth one vote. Choose a methuselah. If the referendum passes, the chosen methuselah now has 30 pool and gives USD$5.00 to each other methuselah.

Reset Political Action Worth one vote. Each player's pool total becomes 30 minus the total capacity of all vampires that player controls. If a player controls more than one Imbued, that player is ousted. While a ludicrous card, it's kind of amusing that you could try to donate vampires to other players through Time Auction and whatnot in order to oust them. The other way to abuse this is, of course, to bring out a horde of allies, but I decided against a clause of "Remove from game all allies in play." even though that also deals with Imbued decks. Traveller Card Game

Game Reset Successful referendum means all Methuselahs shuffle their cards in play, in hand and removed from the games in their library and crypt, then each Methuselah's pool total is set to 30. Time out is again 2 hours. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > Game Reset > > Successful referendum means all Methuselahs shuffle their cards in play, in hand and removed from the games in their library and crypt, then each Methuselah's pool total is set to 30. Time out is again 2 hours. > Judge, judge!!!! B-) 4.9. Infinite Loops When a loop is detected (meaning game state has been completely restored to a previous state and could be repeated without limit except for the round's time limit), the activity cannot be begun again (until and unless game state changes). "It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality" --- Hardy Range Playgroup Tradition Compliance Manager

Why stick it to 30 pool? Kind of magic Worth one vote. this referendum can be called by any minion.... Each player's pool total will be multiplied by the number of votes cast for this referendum. Only one "Kind of magic" can ever be played. This card will be banned after.

> mirddes wrote: > didn't think it needed much explanation. > For future reference, assume you live in parallel V:TES world. > mirddes wrote: > csometimes players accumulate 100+ ppol, being ale to do 70 pool damage in one action would benefit many and likely get the tble vote. > The best decks at accumulating that pool are very often political decks - breed-boon excels in this area. If, as you appear to believe, you need the table to vote with you, breed-boon has plenty of capacity to shut it down by casting a dozen votes against with a Power Structure. > mirddes wrote: > raising yur own pool from 2-3 to 30 will probably not get as much table support howver with vote lock it is possible. > People pass votes. People pass votes all the time. Cryptic Rider exists, and people do play it for surprise fun. Aside from Delaying Tactics and DI-like cards (which can themselves be interfered with), it is not - in the general case - hard to pass votes. Parity Shift decks do it all the time, with one of the very strongest votes in the game. Transient vote lock is very easy for a variety of Presence-heavy decks to achieve, because Awe exists. > mirddes wrote: > perhaps this card idea needs a cost. not mcu room for tweakingi feel. > There is no cost that would make this card appropriate, under any circumstances.

how do you counter 200 pool? UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > how do you counter 200 pool? > Brinksmanship. Honestly, I thought this was a submission for the un-set...

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > Honestly, I thought this was a submission for the un-set... > Still accepting submissions for Bang Nakh advanced.

what about 15 pool instead of 30? more damaging than 30 for a bloat deck. perhaps make it an event UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > how do you counter 200 pool? > Fundamentally the wrong question. The trick is not to counter 200 pool. The trick is to not let a deck get that much pool, or to render it irrelevant. How you do that would depend on how the deck is generating that much pool. Tactics would include, but not be limited to: - killing their minions so they cannot take actions that generate pool (or blood). Killing doesn't have to mean combat. It could mean Baltimore Purge, for example. - as an adjunct to that, if people are converting blood into pool (e.g. Villein), removing the blood helps even if you don't kill them - postponing whatever it is they're doing with tactics such as intercept or Delaying Tactics or Wash/Sudden Reversal or Pentex Subversion. Taking out (or messing with) early steps in a chain of cards can cause the deck fun problems with hand jam etc. These are fairly general purpose, found in lots of decks. More specific options are available. If you're good at managing table hate, a variety of Gehenna Events can mess with decks ability to cycle cards, use disciplines or have access to titles (e.g. breed boon using Creation Rites and Third Tradition may be upset by Fall of the Sabbat/Camarilla). You can render it irrelevant by, for example, getting 3 VP by ousting the other players on the table while the deck is amassing pool, thus getting you the GW. If you have a deck that has limitless access to stealth and defence of all kinds and pool generation with no vulnerability to hand-jam whatsoever, you may want to bring the mechanics to light so that it can be examined more closely.

> mirddes wrote: > what about 15 pool instead of 30? > more damaging than 30 for a bloat deck. > perhaps make it an event > So, turn one, I do 15 pool damage to my prey by playing an event. How about no? Also, hell no. Also, Jesus Christ no.

wash/sudden reversal could be a mior problem unless their deck is awash with wash. pentex subversion is honestly only a minor niggle, its a villein and golconda away from not mattering. always aim for 5VP. SCE removes many options for reducing blood on vampires, dodges help. combo cards are really handy. take a look at my deck im pretty sure it will shed light on the mechanics. the trick is to get the 3VP whilamassing and surviving. longgevity is important as well as versitility UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > wash/sudden reversal could be a mior problem unless their deck is awash with wash. > You don't have to completely nullify a deck. Enough minor niggles - blocked actions here, burned cards there, Washed Golconda there etc. - and a deck can be knocked off course. > mirddes wrote: > pentex subversion is honestly only a minor niggle, its a villein and golconda away from not mattering. > Regularly having both in your hand suggests you're playing very big vampires. This can be extremely vulnerable to aggressive decks, such as weenie Dem, weenie Dom, weenie vote etc., that can be doing significant pool damage in turn 2 and turn 3, when you've barely got a vampire out. If you're looking to do this regularly, you also need to factor in thoughts about bringing out new vampires from your crypt (4 transfers? Effective Management?), and a blend of Zillah's Valley, it's doable but not the smoothest game in town. A variety of MMPA decks have found much more effective options that keep up forward momentum. > mirddes wrote: > always aim for 5VP. > Why? On a table where it turns out I can get 3VP and get a Game Win rather than faffing around with some other deck, that's probably my best strategy. Sure, I want many VPs too. But getting the Game Win is far more useful. If my predator is busy putting no forward pressure on me because he keeps playing Villein/Golconda, I'll take advantage of that. > mirddes wrote: > SCE removes many options for reducing blood on vampires, dodges help. > Erm, not really. Combat decks have a variety of tricks to get around S:CE. Good combat decks use them because S:CE is quite popular. Immortal Grapple is obviously the daddy. Guns with Psyche! are good for this, due to the limited need to waste resources (e.g. you have a permanent maneuver). Sanguine Entrapment is new, but has a lot of potential. A strong combat deck can dunk vampires fairly easily - the difficulty is usually combining that with a good ousting strategy. Tricks involving Outside the Hourglass are possible but somewhat niche - OtH+Disarm is pretty horrific, if anyone likes playing with True Brujah. Doc Pack sees occasional play (too expensive for my tastes). But basically if your players are playing combat strategies without being able to deal with S:CE, and you're making hay with S:CE, they are probably misjudging the environment and playing badly. Since you're playing huge vampires and - apparently - blowing them up with Villein and Golconda a lot, your average combat deck is often playing much smaller vampires. The minion advantage can help a lot when weeding out S:CE cards, for those times when you don't have an IG or Sanguine Entrapment for whatever reason. Weenie Potence can be very small indeed. Also, as noted, a variety of options for killing minions don't care about combat. Baltimore Purge is excellent, and can be followed up by a variety of options, like Vulnerability, diablerie, Gregory Winter etc. It's not the easiest of decks to play - it's capable of generating a lot of table hate, and you have to be careful with card flow - but it's certainly powerful. Or Graverobbing, if that's your preference. That probably ratchets up the table hate by a notch. Baltimore Purge is far from the only option, of course. A well-timed Sudden Reversal on a Villein/Golconda combo, leaving a vampire empty, followed by a Banishment can be fun, and Banishment sees fairly regular play in political decks. 'Borrowing' vampires and hurting them has a track record in competitive play. Mind Rape is excellent, as is Spirit Marionette. Borrowing vampires, nicking their blood, screwing them up if possible has a long history. Serpentis has options here, with Form of Corruption being particularly insidious around decks that may drop low on blood. Notably, FoC goes in play, not on a given vampire - so it doesn't care if you blow one up. The commonality of Fortitude on many competitive vampires (because of its use for Freak Drive etc.) can make a vampire theft followed by Heidelberg followed by an action of some sort with Daring the Dawn on it quite painful, and it's not that many moving parts in the grand scheme of things - Mind Rape is good, Heidelberg is potentially good, the Daring the Dawn is just a cherry on top. > mirddes wrote: > take a look at my deck im pretty sure it will shed light on the mechanics. > No deck has been provided to look at...

Crypt (21 cards; Capacity min=6 max=11 avg=8.43) ================================================ 7x Malgorzata 9 pre AUS DOM THA VIC !Tremere:4 5x Mistress Fanchon 11 AUS CEL DOM OBF THA VIC Tremere:4 4x Nickolai, The Survivor 6 aus dom pot pre tha vic !Tremere:4 5x Rutor 7 pro vic AUS DOM THA Tremere:5 Library (90 cards) ================== Master (24) 6x Ashur Tablets 1x Channel 10 1x Club Zombie 4x Golconda: Inner Peace 1x Information Highway 1x KRCG News Radio 1x London Evening Star, Tabloid Newspaper 1x Monastery of Shadows 1x Parthenon, The 1x Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The 1x Vicissitude 4x Villein 1x WMRH Talk Radio Action (12) 2x Dominate Kine 5x Govern the Unaligned 1x Magic of the Smith 1x Pulse of the Canaille 3x Rutor's Hand Equipment (6) 1x Flamethrower 2x Helicopter 1x IR Goggles 1x Ivory Bow 1x Ruins of Ceoris Action Modifier (19) 3x Bonding 7x Changeling 3x Conditioning 6x Mirror Walk Reaction (14) 5x Deflection 5x Eyes of Argus 4x Telepathic Misdirection Combat (9) 9x Meld with the Land Combo (6) 6x Plasmic Form UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > Crypt (21 cards; Capacity min=6 max=11 avg=8.43) > ================================================ > 7x Malgorzata 9 pre AUS DOM THA VIC !Tremere:4 > 5x Mistress Fanchon 11 AUS CEL DOM OBF THA VIC Tremere:4 > 4x Nickolai, The Survivor 6 aus dom pot pre tha vic !Tremere:4 > 5x Rutor 7 pro vic AUS DOM THA Tremere:5 > > Library (90 cards) > ================== > Master (24) > 6x Ashur Tablets > 1x Channel 10 > 1x Club Zombie > 4x Golconda: Inner Peace > 1x Information Highway > 1x KRCG News Radio > 1x London Evening Star, Tabloid Newspaper > 1x Monastery of Shadows > 1x Parthenon, The > 1x Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The > 1x Vicissitude > 4x Villein > 1x WMRH Talk Radio > > Action (12) > 2x Dominate Kine > 5x Govern the Unaligned > 1x Magic of the Smith > 1x Pulse of the Canaille > 3x Rutor's Hand > > Equipment (6) > 1x Flamethrower > 2x Helicopter > 1x IR Goggles > 1x Ivory Bow > 1x Ruins of Ceoris > > Action Modifier (19) > 3x Bonding > 7x Changeling > 3x Conditioning > 6x Mirror Walk > > Reaction (14) > 5x Deflection > 5x Eyes of Argus > 4x Telepathic Misdirection > > Combat (9) > 9x Meld with the Land > > Combo (6) > 6x Plasmic Form > Any weenie dem, dom or pre deck as your first predator will kill this deck really fast. You probably get to do one or two actions before you're out of game. If you lucky and you have Villein+Golgonda on your starting hand, you get maybe two more turns before you're dead, but in that time you can't even get new vampire out. I think that if this deck can get 100+ pool and 5VPs, then the problem is that your opponents are just bad players and for that we don't need new card that sets someones pool to 30 or 15. IMO. Marko, Prince of Helsinki

I like how people here still try to type sense into mirrdes. A karma pool for trying.

> mirddes wrote: > Crypt (21 cards; Capacity min=6 max=11 avg=8.43) > ================================================ > 7x Malgorzata 9 pre AUS DOM THA VIC !Tremere:4 > 5x Mistress Fanchon 11 AUS CEL DOM OBF THA VIC Tremere:4 > 4x Nickolai, The Survivor 6 aus dom pot pre tha vic !Tremere:4 > 5x Rutor 7 pro vic AUS DOM THA Tremere:5 > > Library (90 cards) > ================== > Master (24) > 6x Ashur Tablets > 1x Channel 10 > 1x Club Zombie > 4x Golconda: Inner Peace > 1x Information Highway > 1x KRCG News Radio > 1x London Evening Star, Tabloid Newspaper > 1x Monastery of Shadows > 1x Parthenon, The > 1x Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The > 1x Vicissitude > 4x Villein > 1x WMRH Talk Radio > > Action (12) > 2x Dominate Kine > 5x Govern the Unaligned > 1x Magic of the Smith > 1x Pulse of the Canaille > 3x Rutor's Hand > > Equipment (6) > 1x Flamethrower > 2x Helicopter > 1x IR Goggles > 1x Ivory Bow > 1x Ruins of Ceoris > > Action Modifier (19) > 3x Bonding > 7x Changeling > 3x Conditioning > 6x Mirror Walk > > Reaction (14) > 5x Deflection > 5x Eyes of Argus > 4x Telepathic Misdirection > > Combat (9) > 9x Meld with the Land > > Combo (6) > 6x Plasmic Form > No, you need to post the deck that's: - impervious to aggressive weenie Dom, weenie Dem, weenie vote. Note that if you spend your first couple of turns getting out Nickolai or Rutor, you can't play Golconda on either of them, while you're putting pool onto another vampire. Weenie Presence KRC or weenie Legacy of Pander KRC vote, for example, can potentially do brutal amounts of pool damage by the end of turn three, before you've had time to do pretty much anything at all. No, a single Information Highway doesn't really help here, as it only turns up in the top 10 cards in roughly 11% of games. Malgorzata needs to be transferred out the hard way before she can use her action to add pool, and if you're planning on playing Golconda a lot, losing a card slot in your uncontrolled region may be mildly unpleasant. Note that if you're expecting to have Villein before you play Golconda, that can be very tricky in a deck like this when faced with extremely hostile predators, because in the first few turns you can't cycle cards easily. Having both in the first ten to twelve cards is obviously possible, but not reliable. - impervious to aggressive combat, when a plethora of combat decks can get round S:CE and Dodge fairly easily. Dodge is fairly irrelevant to anyone playing additional strikes, such as Celeritous guns. Note that two of your vampires will untap your opponent at inferior Meld with the Land, until you either: a) draw and play a single Vicissitude master, when in half your games the card will be in the bottom half of the deck b) take an action with Nickolai, which can be blocked - able to repeatedly schmooze past popular archetypes such as weenie Auspex, grinder decks, and other block heavy/control decks. A number of these generate a lot of permacept, through cards such as Bowl of Convergence, which can make you waste a lot of stealth. Plasmic Form costs you, whether you're successful or not. Mirror Walk is a very good card, but its no replace downside can be painful as you don't get to draw into new stealth. - not putting expensive cards on vampires which are then blown up with Villein/Golconda, if anyone plays Pentex Subversion. Note that expensive here doesn't (just) mean pool cost, it also means actions, and your sources of multi-acting are permanents which can be blown away by this. Put Helicopter and Flamethrower on a single vampire and you've used up two actions, and quite a few people will be happy to see you blow it up. Relying on cards such as Helicopter can also be tricky if your metagame features Anarch Troublemaker. Its versatility (tap vampires OR blow up equipment) makes it a potentially popular include in some environments. - able to withstand the table hate that it generates by being so magnificent. If a deck looks like the threat in a tournament, in round two onwards, you're likely to face wary players. If you make the final and are still looking like you're about to obliterate the table, players will play differently. (This doesn't have to require a deck that is objectively uber-powerful in all situations - just one that happens to be very good in that particular environment.) If a player looks like they're going to roll the table, it is very often in the rest of the table's interests to stop it - I'd rather try to get some VP from the remaining 4 players than 0 VP by letting that deck live. Your prey may agree with back-ousting you, and cross-table players may agree to beat you up to. I recall an impressive final some years ago where Turbo Arika had done well in preliminary rounds, which results in a deal - on the final table - between Arika's predator and Arika's grand prey. (I think Arika's grand-prey was the combat deck.) Deal offered. Arika refuses. Arika transferred out. Arika's grand prey rushes cross-table and torps her, before she has chance to do anything at all. Worked well at stopping Turbo-Arika roll the table. Is the deck worthless? No, very likely not. Does it brush off all attempts at thwarting it? No, it doesn't do that either. Good decks using good cards well can make its life a lot less smooth. (Average decks played aggressively can screw you up too.) If the other players on the table are foolish enough to let it get that much pool, that's their own silly fault. There are so many things they can do to interfere.