Submission: Getaway Car

Name: Getaway Car Cardtype: action modifier Cost: none Capacity: none Discipline: none Clan: none Requires a minion with a vehicle. Minions without vehicles or celerity cannot block this action. Flavor text: Sure, it only goes like 50 mph. Can you run that fast? Art notes: Bunch of angry people with weapons trying to catch an icecream truck speeding away. World of Darkness reference: uh, none. How does this card address a compelling game need?: Just giving an extra reason to play with vehicles. Created by: Mikko Moisander

seems a little much to me... maybe this instead: "Minions without must burn one blood to attempt to block this action." But i do like where your head's at.

Yea, "cannot block" is rough, you can give Beatrice Trembley and the sun pharoah hawgs and have them hack/strike with conviction for large unblockable bleeds. To be unblockable, Id say it needs to tap a minion with a vehicle and be a non bleed. Also, wouldnt a getaway only help once youve done something? Like, you get caught trying to burn a powerbase, having an exit strategy doesnt help much, and leads to the premise where this card is either like Zephyr or As the Crow.(which woupd work, but maybe cost a pool or make the vehicle burn or something where the minion takes damage or is only untapped to block, etc) Cool art notes though...

> Whisker wrote: > Name: Getaway Car > Cardtype: action modifier > Cost: none > Capacity: none > Discipline: none > Clan: none > Requires a minion with a vehicle. > Minions without vehicles or celerity cannot block this action. > As well as the power problems other people note (which is not a trivial problem), thematically it seems wrong. A getaway car is about getting away afterwards, whether you succeeded in your bank heist or not, not actually getting the thing done in the first place. The security guard can still shoot you, the vampire with Auspex still knows what you're going to do and can be in the right place at the right time, and so on.

I like the idea of helping vehicles. How about: Burn a vehicle on this minion to give minions without celerity -1 intercept against this action. The idea being you drive around the slow people.

> kpram wrote: > How about: > Burn a vehicle on this minion to give minions without celerity -1 intercept against this action. > As most vehicles will be equipped with actual actions, this is very expensive. If you change it to "Tap a vehicle on this minion to...", it would be less aggravating. However, Suppressing Fire is functionally pretty similar and doesn't see much top tier play - according to a quick search on SL, it's in something like 2 TWDA entries ever, one weenie deck, one Palla Grande breed deck. I wouldn't expect this to do much to enliven decks.

How about this: Catch Me If You Can Action Modifier Only usable by a minion with a vehicle Only usable when a minion attempts to block. The attempt fails (do not tap that blocking minion). That minion cannot attempt to block this action again. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

Getaway Car Action Modifier Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. Usable after a successful action. If this action is not blocked, tap this vehicle and put it out of play until the end of your turn to untap the acting vampire. That should do it. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> brandonsantacruz wrote: > How about this: > > Catch Me If You Can > Action Modifier > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle > Only usable when a minion attempts to block. The attempt fails (do not tap that blocking minion). That minion cannot attempt to block this action again. > "Block attempt fails" is quite a powerful effect, even where you need to have a vehicle to use it - several vehicles are fairly decent, and a few of the more marginal cards might come into play. You could see an intercept grinder including a couple of Sport Bikes and 4 of these to force the occasional bleed through, maybe. A blood cost might be a little too harsh, but in its current form, I'd be tempted to put a "Do Not Replace until..." clause on it. Some point after the end of the minion phase, most likely - do not replace until the end of the current turn, maybe.

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Getaway Car > Action Modifier > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. Usable after a successful action. > If this action is not blocked, tap this vehicle and put it out of play until the end of your turn to untap the acting vampire. > > That should do it. > Pretty decent, though I would be mildly interested in seeing how it playtested if someone was trying to stack it with Helicopter (with or without Alastor). Probably not game-breaking given they might just be stacking a ton of Freak Drive, but could be interesting to watch. Curiously, a vampire playing Force of Will could drag themselves into a Getaway Car while entering torpor. Probably not a concern.

> kpram wrote: > I like the idea of helping vehicles. > > How about: > Burn a vehicle on this minion to give minions without celerity -1 intercept against this action. > > The idea being you drive around the slow people. > Seems awfully expensive for what amounts to +1 stealth. Perhaps: Defensive Driving Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. Minions without Celerity get -1 intercept.

> BenPeal wrote: > > > kpram wrote: > > I like the idea of helping vehicles. > > > > How about: > > Burn a vehicle on this minion to give minions without celerity -1 intercept against this action. > > > > The idea being you drive around the slow people. > > > Seems awfully expensive for what amounts to +1 stealth. Perhaps: > > Defensive Driving > > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. > > Minions without Celerity get -1 intercept. > See also: Name: Suppressing Fire [KMW:C, KoT:PT3] Cardtype: Action Modifier Only usable by a ready untapped minion with a gun other than the acting minion. The blocking minion gets -1 intercept. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > BenPeal wrote: > > > > > kpram wrote: > > > I like the idea of helping vehicles. > > > > > > How about: > > > Burn a vehicle on this minion to give minions without celerity -1 intercept against this action. > > > > > > The idea being you drive around the slow people. > > > > > > > > Seems awfully expensive for what amounts to +1 stealth. Perhaps: > > > > Defensive Driving > > > > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. > > > > Minions without Celerity get -1 intercept. > > > See also: > > Name: Suppressing Fire > [KMW:C, KoT:PT3] > Cardtype: Action Modifier > Only usable by a ready untapped minion with a gun other than the acting minion. > The blocking minion gets -1 intercept. > What is proposed is more potent than suppressing fire due to the fact that only one minion is concerned and that the -1 intercept is widely spread. Furthermore, as writen, "Defensive Driving" can be played anytime just for cycling purpose which is strong !

Suppressing Fire is like Cloak the Gathering... one per minion per action. Great with Zip Guns in a low-stealth clan. But it is only on the 'current blocker' not all blockers. Defensive Driving would work on all blockers. Burn a vehicle is a very very high price for that. Yellow is Green Enough Action Modifier Only usable when this minion is blocked. Burn a vehicle on this minion to continue the action unblocked; the minion that blocked this action may not attempt again. Other minions have -1 intercept when blocking this action. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> kpram wrote: > How about: > Burn a vehicle on this minion to give minions without celerity -1 intercept against this action. > This is nice, but too weak. -2 intercept maybe? "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

> BenPeal wrote: > Defensive Driving > > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. > > Minions without Celerity get -1 intercept. > The problem with the whole "Minions with/without Celerity" thing is it's obviously more than a bit random. When it offers unblockability (as in the original suggestion), it's potentially a worthwhile deal - yes, it sometimes doesn't work, but when it does work it's really good. Here, I fear we're into the territory where it's a little too weak - you might include a couple if you're already playing vehicles, but will this incentivize many people to play a vehicle who weren't doing so already? Not so sure. Also, in the "equipment/retainer that gives stealth" corner, you end up in the somewhat circular situation where if you don't have the stealth to get the equipment out in the first place, it's potentially a significant deck design and deck flow challenge. Say, you play in a group where Second Sight or weenie Auspex is fairly prevalent.

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > BenPeal wrote: > > Defensive Driving > > > > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. > > > > Minions without Celerity get -1 intercept. > > > The problem with the whole "Minions with/without Celerity" thing is it's obviously more than a bit random. When it offers unblockability (as in the original suggestion), it's potentially a worthwhile deal - yes, it sometimes doesn't work, but when it does work it's really good. Here, I fear we're into the territory where it's a little too weak - you might include a couple if you're already playing vehicles, but will this incentivize many people to play a vehicle who weren't doing so already? Not so sure. > Oh agreed. Part of it is "How much do you expect out of a disciplineless card?" I prefer stealth and stealth-like effects over unblockability, as I prefer more card interaction. As designed above, the card is "You get +1 stealth unless one or more of the vampires happen to have one of the most common disciplines in the game, in which case you're jacked but at least you can cycle this card for free." I went with that to keep kpram's original design idea intact. The card could more simply and more effectively be designed as: Defensive Driving Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. +1 stealth. > Also, in the "equipment/retainer that gives stealth" corner, you end up in the somewhat circular situation where if you don't have the stealth to get the equipment out in the first place, it's potentially a significant deck design and deck flow challenge. Say, you play in a group where Second Sight or weenie Auspex is fairly prevalent. > Magic of the Smith for the vehicle itself or for a Pier 13 works pretty well.

> BenPeal wrote: > > Oh agreed. Part of it is "How much do you expect out of a disciplineless card?" I prefer stealth and stealth-like effects over unblockability, as I prefer more card interaction. As designed above, the card is "You get +1 stealth unless one or more of the vampires happen to have one of the most common disciplines in the game, in which case you're jacked but at least you can cycle this card for free." I went with that to keep kpram's original design idea intact. The card could more simply and more effectively be designed as: > > Defensive Driving > > Only usable by a minion with a vehicle. > > +1 stealth. > That seems very strong for disciplineless. "-1 intercept to minions without vehicles." is only a little weaker, and keeps with the empowering vehicles idea that spawned the thread. > Also, in the "equipment/retainer that gives stealth" corner, you end up in the somewhat circular situation where if you don't have the stealth to get the equipment out in the first place, it's potentially a significant deck design and deck flow challenge. Say, you play in a group where Second Sight or weenie Auspex is fairly prevalent. > Magic of the Smith for the vehicle itself or for a Pier 13 works pretty well.[/quote] Yeah, but you have to equip a Pier 13. Bootstrapping equipment against intercept is a whole other ball of wax.

> BenPeal wrote: > Magic of the Smith for the vehicle itself or for a Pier 13 works pretty well. > Except that you're then probably playing Tremere and so get Thaumaturgy and Dominate, neither of which is terrible at delivery mechanisms - Seduction, Bonding, Mirror Walk, Sleeping Mind etc. Even Auspex can join in with Crocodile's Tongue which - at superior - is pretty solid. Even if playing weenie Thaumaturgy Cryptic Mission, you at least have access to Mirror Walk. I'd generally expect to see such decks playing those in preference to this, because it's just less hassle. Here, I'd expect a card like this to be picked up more by clans/decks that lack a solid delivery mechanism, or whose delivery mechanism is quite awkward in some way e.g. - annoying blood costs when you want to play weenies - side effects like going to torpor from Day Op - the delivery mechanism of your clan is mostly combat-oriented, and you'd prefer to avoid combat - very, very limited for some reason And for those sorts of situations, getting the equipment out onto one or more minions could be a pain in the ass, if your average tournament metagame includes things like Toreador 2nd Tradition, !Ven grinder, an Inbued deck, weenie Auspex, and a few well-timed DIs.