Curious if Tupdog's ability (underlined) supersedes his Tremere antitribu slave requirement of not being able to perform actions if the Tremere antitribue is not ready?
Tupdog, 1, POT VIS, Gargoyle, 3, [LoB:C]
Sabbat. Tremere antitribu slave: Visceratika cards cost Tupdog 1 less blood to play. Tupdog may enter combat with any minion as a action. Tupdogs are not unique. At the end of your minion phase, burn Tupdog and move the top card from your crypt to your uncontrolled region. Flight.
> extrala wrote:
> The tupdog cannot take actions unless a Tremere antitribu is ready. This includes his built in action.
>
Hehe, "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." Sometimes, not always!
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
> Ashur wrote:
>
> > extrala wrote:
> > The tupdog cannot take actions unless a Tremere antitribu is ready. This includes his built in action.
> >
> Hehe, "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." Sometimes, not always!
>
Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status
> Blooded wrote:
>
> > Ashur wrote:
> >
> > > extrala wrote:
> > > The tupdog cannot take actions unless a Tremere antitribu is ready. This includes his built in action.
> > >
> > Hehe, "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." Sometimes, not always!
> >
> Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status
>
There is no reson it would, if it could rush without a !tremere around then it wouldn't be a slave.
The "slave" keyword is on the card, so "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." still applies.
Prince of Dallas
Toreador Grand Ball: Dallas
August 13, 2022
> Blooded wrote:
> Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status
>
Tupdog's card text provides an additional action that he can take, when he can take a action - much like a cardless bleed action, a cardless diablerie action, the action to mess with Powerbase: Chicago, or Bum's Rush. When Tupdog is able to take a action, he can pick from any of those actions - including the extra one from his card text.
Until he has a master vampire out, however, he can't take a action at all.
> Blooded wrote:
> Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status
>
Definition of Slave trait.
> Rulebook wrote:
> Slave: Some minions are identified as slaves to a specified clan. A slave cannot take a directed action if his controller doesn't control a ready member of the specified clan. Also, if a member of the specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking minion instead.
>
When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
@pckvtes
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Blooded wrote:
> > Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status
> >
> Tupdog's card text provides an additional action that he can take, when he can take a action - much like a cardless bleed action, a cardless diablerie action, the action to mess with Powerbase: Chicago, or Bum's Rush. When Tupdog is able to take a action, he can pick from any of those actions - including the extra one from his card text.
>
> Until he has a master vampire out, however, he can't take a action at all.
>
Correct. When a effect overrides a rule, it doesn't extend beyond the scope of that effect.
"Tupdog may enter combat with any minion as a action" isn't the same as "Tupdog may enter combat with any minion as a action and can take actions ignoring its slave status".
So basically,
1/ he can enter combat as a action
2/ he can't take actions while there isn't a ready !Tremere.
As always, the "can't" part take precedence over the "can" part.
Here's another example for this: Tupdog can enter combat with A + A has a Secure Haven (can't take actions against him) = Tupdog can't enter combat with A.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> Correct. When a effect overrides a rule, it doesn't extend beyond the scope of that effect.
>
This is also true for Walker Grimes: "Master cards that target Walker cost you an additional pool."
Since only the player who plays a card pays the cost of it (unless explicit card text such as a Ravnos Cache), the controller of Walker doesn't pay when other players play a master card on him. "cost you" is the key part. Walker's effect doesn't allow players to pay cards played by other players.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ashur wrote:
>
> > extrala wrote:
> > The tupdog cannot take actions unless a Tremere antitribu is ready. This includes his built in action.
> >
> Hehe, "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." Sometimes, not always!
>
I am surprised how people can say that given that it's twenty year that the rule say that card need to explicitely contradict rule for that, and here it's a textbook case of being implicit.
I mean, "this vampire can take this action without a master" would be explicit. Here, we just have a standard action, and you believe it implicitely say it alway can use it. That kind of thing was already in the jyhad rulebook, and with the precision that it need to be explicit.