What does the community think about melee weapon enhancers? Something like an Immortal Grapple for melee weapons would be fun...maybe celerity discipline, could be called some sort of duel. Perhaps it would be too powerful for Jaroslav Pascek + alastor + blade of enoch
> Yochanan wrote:
> What does the community think about melee weapon enhancers? Something like an Immortal Grapple for melee weapons would be fun...maybe celerity discipline, could be called some sort of duel. Perhaps it would be too powerful for Jaroslav Pascek + alastor + blade of enoch
>
Some recent-ish discussion about trying to liven up melee weapons while keeping them a bit different from other combat options was had over here: vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/55632-submission-melee-weapon-enhancers
Just changing concealed weapon to only allow cost 0 and 1 weapons would fix a lot of melee weapons problems. Another problem is immoral grapple, so far two weapons deals with it. Other than that, well, it's often not worth it to take an action to increase damage dealt in combat ... or not.
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
> Lech wrote:
> Just changing concealed weapon to only allow cost 0 and 1 weapons would fix a lot of melee weapons problems. Another problem is immoral grapple, so far two weapons deals with it. Other than that, well, it's often not worth it to take an action to increase damage dealt in combat ... or not.
>
The major problem is that for the same price, guns are far better than melee weapons.
.44 Magnum: 2R + a maneuver
Bang Nakh: strength+2 damage (only effective at close range)
If you do the math with no card played .44 magnum deals 2 damage and you take 0 Bang Nakh deals 3 damage and you take 1
Gun already is better (because you can fight like this foreveer without never losing a blood). Most of the time, it's even better than that because close range strike are far more common than long range one.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> The major problem is that for the same price, guns are far better than melee weapons.
>
that's probably a reason why modern soldiers are not fighting with swords
> alek wrote:
>
> > The major problem is that for the same price, guns are far better than melee weapons.
> >
> that's probably a reason why modern soldiers are not fighting with swords
>
Yeah, except vampires in the lore fear more sword than a pistol.
Major problem lies in .44 Magnum. If it would have to tap to get manouver, it would be far weaker and combo less with cards like psyche!, multiple combats over turn thanks to wakes and the likes.
Another problem is that getting that 2 pool weapon via concealed weapon is far more rewarding than for example 1 cost melee weapons - that you don't really want to for the price. Ok, some people may run baseball bat in some AUS decks, but dealing 2 damage and reciving 1 isn't that hot - you are better with desert eagle for the price unless you have some melee weapon boosts like +str or ... i don't know bbt(but you don't want to waste them on bb anyway, just wws - which are example of weapon that is played)?
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
> Lech wrote:
>
> > alek wrote:
> >
> > > The major problem is that for the same price, guns are far better than melee weapons.
> > >
> > that's probably a reason why modern soldiers are not fighting with swords
> >
> Yeah, except vampires in the lore fear more sword than a pistol.
>
> Major problem lies in .44 Magnum. If it would have to tap to get manouver, it would be far weaker and combo less with cards like psyche!, multiple combats over turn thanks to wakes and the likes.
>
> Another problem is that getting that 2 pool weapon via concealed weapon is far more rewarding than for example 1 cost melee weapons - that you don't really want to for the price. Ok, some people may run baseball bat in some AUS decks, but dealing 2 damage and reciving 1 isn't that hot - you are better with desert eagle for the price unless you have some melee weapon boosts like +str or ... i don't know bbt(but you don't want to waste them on bb anyway, just wws - which are example of weapon that is played)?
>
If we added in rulings for bashing and lethal damage, we would end up with even more clunky and annoying rules. Updating melee weapons, by erratta or by new cards, wont change that melee is less good than ranged weapon combat. The list is long (im not rereading the whole thread right now) but there is little to do without trying too hard and breaking stuff that makes melee appealing.
Even in vtm, lethal damage from blades and bashing from bullets didnt make everyone carry swords. Strike ish cards are an interesting idea, other stuff is too much.
I own four assamites decks on melee weapons. I assure you: most of them are somewhat weak, losing fights because of .44 maneuverings or immortals/drawings.
There are no advantages for melee weapons whatever in this game. I reached the conclusion the best melee weapons are those that have no cost - jouloms axe, argent baton and weighted walkin stick. And rowan ring of course. Why would someone pay 3 pool on a kali's fang? Much better go for a 4 pool flamethrower for obvious reasons.
I felt so frustrated that I even submitted a melee weapon card combat.
> www.vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/50060-submission-silent-approach-and-dance-of-death
>
> Name: Silent Approach
> Cardtype: Combat
> Cost: No cost.
> Capacity: Not applicable.
> Discipline: Quietus
> Clan: none
> Maneuver, only usable to go to close range.
> As above, and/or this vampire can equip with a melee weapon from your hand (pay costs and fullfill requirements as normal).
>
Assamites and other in game disciplines like should be awesome with melee weapons. In fact the better they can do is garrote + baal or some other cheap trick.
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
Melee weapons are only good in joke and gimmick decks.
I built unique melee with assamites strike at the true flesh/ fortitude for prevent. Not great.
Laibon !saulbri with agf kerries was neat, but my African Death Stick deck isnt as good as other !salubri builds ive done.
I once did "Holy Cock" where I fot true faith and crusader sword on Cock Robin. Worked as well as any cock robin deck with a bolted on joke, I suppose.
WWS is the only practical melee weapon, due to its no cost, no concealed required, and even as temporary as it is, fluidity and saving a card slot make up for it. Yes, stickmen could conceal out 44s instead, but its 5-6 cardslots, getting them drawn, and pool to save some blood when fortitude and presses do more anyway, even if the stick will always break after a few swings.
Brass knuckles 2.0, a switchblade, and an unbrella sword could be made to mimick WWS, but current options just arent good enough.
> ReverendRevolver wrote:
> Melee weapons are only good in joke and gimmick decks.
>
> I built unique melee with assamites strike at the true flesh/ fortitude for prevent. Not great.
>
> Laibon !saulbri with agf kerries was neat, but my African Death Stick deck isnt as good as other !salubri builds ive done.
>
> I once did "Holy Cock" where I fot true faith and crusader sword on Cock Robin. Worked as well as any cock robin deck with a bolted on joke, I suppose.
>
> WWS is the only practical melee weapon, due to its no cost, no concealed required, and even as temporary as it is, fluidity and saving a card slot make up for it. Yes, stickmen could conceal out 44s instead, but its 5-6 cardslots, getting them drawn, and pool to save some blood when fortitude and presses do more anyway, even if the stick will always break after a few swings.
> Brass knuckles 2.0, a switchblade, and an unbrella sword could be made to mimick WWS, but current options just arent good enough.
>
You sir, deserve a medal.
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish