My 10 cap vampire have an Enkil Cog and is tapped, the Cog is untapped.
It is in the end of my preys minion phase.
I tap the Cog, and state that my vampire bleeds.
What prevents me from doing this?
Enkil Cog
Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique.
Only usable when this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play after resolution). Put this card on this vampire. During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire may tap this card to attempt an action. This vampire has +1 bleed.
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6.2. Taking an Action
Any ready untapped minion you control can take an action. The procedure for resolving an action is described in the following sections. Note that action modifiers and reaction cards can be played at any time in this process as appropriate, subject to the restrictions on adding stealth and intercept listed below and the restrictions against the same minion playing the same action modifier or reaction card more than once (see Minion Cards, sec. 1.6.3), and following the same sequencing strictures of all effects (see Sequencing, sec. 1.6.1.6).
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1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards
Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence.
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/Jesper
Because most actions require an untapped vampire.
Movement of the slow body, recure the homeland, and force of will all DO NOT, so you can tap the cog on another players turn and play them.
Cog lets this happen.
Note that Madness network specifically says "untapped malkavians" so Roxanne/Jason cannot get heart of darkness/concordance and Forcr of will bleex every turn, as they do not meet the criteria of an"untapped malkavian"
Hope that clarifies. Hte thing to note is Cog lets you break a rule. It does not let you break the rule of what you need to do to qualify to be able to act, it simply givez you an opportunity to act, so being tapped will typically limit what you do with said opportunity.
Edit: Just noticed who this was.....
Jesper, you should use nergal+cog during grandpreys minion phase once soul gem is on, since they can AI you then
There is nothing to prevent me from tapping a untapped Enkilg Cog on a tapped minion. Enikil Cog states that I can then attempt an action.
We know from Cards like movement, Force of Will etc. that tapped minions can take actions if allowed by card text.
Enkil Cog, dosent say "this _untapped_ vampire may tap this card to attempt an action".
We also know that Card text overrule the rules. Im still claiming that without an ruleing/change, there is nothing preventing my tapped vampire with the Enkil Cog to act.
Even better is that if Madness Network says "untapped malkavians" I would claim that aslong as the Cog dosent have that text it would mean I wouldent need to be untapped, simply due to the Network stateing that I need to be and the Cog dosent.
As far as I remember Pascal ended up agreeing with me duing the weekend, I just want the ruling so that this cant happen.
/Jesper
As ReverendRevolder said, Enkil Cog only allows you to bypass the "minions can act during their controller's minion phase" restriction.
All other restrictions still apply, for instance the "untapped requirement".
Some other example: you can't attempt to play Parity Shift with a Sabbat vampire with Enkil Cog, just because Enkil Cog allows you to "attempt an action". You must meet all others requirements.
Anyway, if you wanted a ruling, here's one:
groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/qhk0Aa1vP_M/G3Og-YafnPEJ
> Lsj wrote:
> > May the vampire with Enkil Cog play an action by tapping the Enkil Cog
> > if he (the vampire) is already tapped ?
> If the action can be taken by a tapped vampire (e.g., Force of Will), yes.
> Otherwise, no.
>
> > I think that the vampire must be "legally" allowed to perform an
> > action (meaning : being untapped) if he wants to act during another
> > minion phase by tapping the Enkil Cog
> Correct. The vampire must meet the requirements of the action.
>
> If it requires Dominate, he must have Dominate.
> If it requires an untapped vampire, he must be untapped.
>
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Jesper wrote:
> We also know that Card text overrule the rules. Im still claiming that without an ruleing/change, there is nothing preventing my tapped vampire with the Enkil Cog to act.
>
No, in general, the application of the Golden Rule of Cards is roughly as follows (entirely my paraphrasing):
In so far as the card text contradicts the rules, the rules are contradicted. If the card text doesn't contradict a rule, that rule stays in play.
So Enkil Cog lets you announce an action. This contradicts the normal rules on when you can take actions. It doesn't contradict the rules on tappedness. It doesn't contradict the rules on cost. It doesn't contradict the rules on meeting requirements. It doesn't contradict the rules on repeating action - say, a vampire with Enkil Cog who is a Malkavian acting also under Madness Network to bleed twice in one turn (not allowed).
> Jesper wrote:
> Even better is that if Madness Network says "untapped malkavians" I would claim that aslong as the Cog dosent have that text it would mean I wouldent need to be untapped, simply due to the Network stateing that I need to be and the Cog dosent.
>
Madness Network only allows untapped Malkavians to act. Without the word "untapped", tapped Malkavians could also act - but would only be able to take actions that allow for tapped vampires to take them, such as Force of Will or Movement of the Slow Body.
A tapped vampire with Enkil Cog can take those actions too, since they don't require an untapped vampire.
Historically, acting out of turn has been paired with discipline-based or action based methods of either untapping (cock robin special, freak drive, contagion, clothos, fiendish toungue, leather jacket, homonoclous, etc) or combos letting you untap to block, and then stay untapped (cats, obediance, the never played shattered mirror) or block, then untap (majesty, or less crappy earth meld)
But, its always been an important part; you need to be untapped to keep acting. The two notable ways Ive SEEN untapping happen via master cards have been metro undergeound (ive used it) and cavalier (seen it with tryphosa and madness network ti good effect) monster would work, but never seen it, and there are other things, of course, like the g5 ravnos, and torvus.
But.
Its all part of the setup.
I still maintain that if I tap an Enkil Cog, even though the vampire is tapped, the Cog says that the minion attempts an action.
Card text overwrite the part in the rule book that prevents a tapped minion from acting.
Enkil Cog clearly says that this vampire attempts an action.
We are all agreements on the intend of the card. But as of now all I see is people who claim that im wrong, becouse they want to be right. Not becouse they read what the rules and card says.
A a fun experiment, lets pretend that the following 3 retainers was in the game:
Retainer X Human 1 life
During any Methuselah's minion phase, the minion with this retainer can tap Retainer X to bleed as a action.
Retainer Y Human 1 life
During any Methuselah's minion phase, a tapped minion with this retainer can tap Retainer Y to bleed as a action.
Retainer Z Human 1 life
During any Methuselah's minion phase, an untapped minion with this retainer can tap Retainer Z to bleed as a action.
The Y an Z variants are pretty easy to follow, but the X variant here I cant see what prevents a tapped minion from tapping that retainer and then, due to card text, taking a Bleed action.
/Jesper
You asked for a ruling, and were provided with one. You can pretend it doesn't exist, but what's the point then?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> As ReverendRevolder said, Enkil Cog only allows you to bypass the "minions can act during their controller's minion phase" restriction.
> All other restrictions still apply, for instance the "untapped requirement".
>
> Some other example: you can't attempt to play Parity Shift with a Sabbat vampire with Enkil Cog, just because Enkil Cog allows you to "attempt an action". You must meet all others requirements.
>
> Anyway, if you wanted a ruling, here's one:
>
> groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/qhk0Aa1vP_M/G3Og-YafnPEJ
>
> > Lsj wrote:
> > > May the vampire with Enkil Cog play an action by tapping the Enkil Cog
> > > if he (the vampire) is already tapped ?
> > If the action can be taken by a tapped vampire (e.g., Force of Will), yes.
> > Otherwise, no.
> >
> > > I think that the vampire must be "legally" allowed to perform an
> > > action (meaning : being untapped) if he wants to act during another
> > > minion phase by tapping the Enkil Cog
> > Correct. The vampire must meet the requirements of the action.
> >
> > If it requires Dominate, he must have Dominate.
> > If it requires an untapped vampire, he must be untapped.
> >
Correct.
> Jesper wrote:
> I still maintain that if I tap an Enkil Cog, even though the vampire is tapped, the Cog says that the minion attempts an action.
>
So do you maintain that if you choose a Dominate action with a non-Dominate user you get to attempt it anyway? Do you maintain that even if you've already bled that turn, you can bleed again?