[submission]

Name: Sublime Sugestion Cardtype: Reaction Cost: - Capacity: - Discipline: Clan: - Only usable on a referendum. Only one Sublime Sugestion may be played in an action. Tap this vampire to force a Vampire to abstains for vote. This can change thats vampire's votes. As above, and that vampire takes an unpreventable damage at the end of the action. Flavor text: working on this... I have the flavor, but can't find the proper page. It's a discurse Francisco Domingo de Polonia speaks to another sabbat, while pressing his hand. It's on a clan novel of the Eye of Hazimel books. Art notes: A man, smiling and appearing to hold, gently, the hand of another one, who's suffering with the grapple. World of Darkness reference: Again, the clan novel I'm trying to remember the page. Also, every use of potence as a non combat discipline. How does this card address a compelling game need?: We all know Potence is considered de major combat discipline. But, far than that, it is the surpass of the limits a simple human can't reach. Despite the obvious combat type of the Brujah clan, other clans, more political than the rablle. Lasombra are the best political, and have potence, as the Giovanni. Using the brute force as the intimidation key to force weaker vampires to act and work just as you want is the archetype of the bully, and I really don't know why we never had a card like this before. Also, the combat foccused decks could use this card as a good defense against vote dedicated decks. A Nosferatu combat deck, wich can't use even Yawp Court could use this card to defend them against the odious Toreador and their racist "I vote, you don't". Created by: Vitor Ferreira Vitor Hugo Sabbat. Vitor gets +1 vote against any referendum of a political action.

I fear it falls in the "potence can resolve any problem" category. Just because you're strong doesn't mean people will do what you want. POT+PRE is much more appropriate, and Iron Glare already does that. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Yes, and no. Iron glare gain votes, this cancel votes. Plus, Iron Glare is an action modifier, and this is a reaction. The card wasn't created to help vote decks, but to balance them with bruise or secondary potence decks. And, as a side note, if you played live actions for a while you can affirm that potence really Solves everything Hahaha. Vitor Hugo Sabbat. Vitor gets +1 vote against any referendum of a political action.

Alasteir, For Brujah, there is already Scalpel Tongue () For Giovanni, there is... well like they really do vote decks. For Nosferatu, there is... Animal Magnetism for starters but also good old fashioned Animalism Combat and Rush. For Guruhi, they already run Presence, they should be able to pass a vote. Or Animalism Combat to solve their problem cross-table. For Trujah, there is Quicksilver Contemplation For Lasombra, there is G2 Lasombra for Voting... otherwise what ARE you doing??? Oh and a few dominate cards. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Referendum reactions that are not Delaying Tactics suck: they are dead cards if nobody plays votes and even when you can play them, they are useless half of the time. When my progeny asked for a VTES card to chew on, I gave him a Dread Gaze.

> Non-existant user wrote: > Referendum reactions that are not Delaying Tactics suck: they are dead cards if nobody plays votes and even when you can play them, they are useless half of the time. > Very much this. At the very least, it would need to have some sort of non-political option to be worthwhile. Say: [pot] Enter combat with a ready minion. / [POT] Some sort of anti-politics thing. And even then, as Ankha says, it's not really great to use Potence's physical capabilities as a way to justify everything. If you bleed me that hard, I will hurt you, so Potence gets a good bleed reducer. If you do anything, I will hurt you, so Potence gets a card canceller. If you don't give me all your stuff, I will hurt you, so Potence gets to steal all your equipment. And so on.

> If you bleed me that hard, I will hurt you, so Potence gets a good bleed reducer. If you do anything, I will hurt you, so Potence gets a card canceller. If you don't give me all your stuff, I will hurt you, so Potence gets to steal all your equipment. And so on. > Sounds like dominate, and you can skip the hurting part altogether Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

How about a Potence reaction card that can only be used against a D action that: Inf: forces a younger vamp to burn a blood. Sup: forces any vamp to burn a blood. Something like this might have fun synergy with Touch of Pain and Crocodile Tears, etc.

"Mark of Pain" (see what i did there? Giggle) Reacion Potence. Only usable during a bleed or political action that causes you to lose 2 or more pool when an ally or younger vampire is acting. pot: The acting minion takes 2X unpreventable damage at the end of the action, where X is the amount of pool the action caused you to burn. Only one Mark of Pain can be played each action. POT: as above, but useable by a tapped vampire. So, yea, its damage, and the action happens, but its better/stacks with touch of pain, and how many govern+conditioning bleeds can a vampire afford for 2blood+12 damage? Even votercap on a 3-1 KRC you take the brunt of deals with 6 damage on the vamp. Also, imbued and the strike bleed takes 4 damage. Funny. Too good? Maybe, but Potence needs: "Free dentistry: rearranging your grill for no monetary compensation" Action As this action is announced, the acting minion may burn one blood to gain+1 strength for the remander of the turn. pot: enter combat with a ready minion controlled by your predator or prey, or any tapped vampire. POT: bleed at +1 bleed. This acting vampire gets -1 stealth this action. More than a reaction that does anything short of gaining pool or tapping to enter combat after a bleex.

Well, I guess that if taking instantly so much damage for a succesful bleed had ever been considered balanced, Touch of Pain would have been printed as stackable with itself in the first place (i.e. without the "only one..." clause)

Hahaha you're all fantastic, but, seriously, I don't see this puritanism of "potence should ONLY do damage" as a limitation for the Cardgame. We need to think a little out of the box. Despite this, I'm OK with no going on with this idea. Be prepared for THE others I have Vitor Hugo Sabbat. Vitor gets +1 vote against any referendum of a political action.

> alasteir wrote: > Hahaha you're all fantastic, but, seriously, I don't see this puritanism of "potence should ONLY do damage" as a limitation for the Cardgame. > i get what you're saying, but at the same time it's about maintaining both strengths and weaknesses. there's enough things in the game that strain credulity and suspension of disbelief as it is. in the roleplaying game, an imaginative player can accomplish a lot with some great ideas and mediocre dice rolls, making their limited resources get the most bang for their buck. but V:tes is a card game, and potence is basically the "i lift things up and put them down" discipline here. it can be rationalized that it doesn't matter how much potence a character has, they might not have the wherewithall to utilize their strength effectively in a political situation. i mean, when you sit down and think about it, what's the difference between protean and vicissitude? at their core, they're both shapeshifting abilities. for better or worse, Vtes has a lot of legacy things to handle with respect to its background; what's good for the roleplaying game isn't always good for the card game.

> alasteir wrote: > Hahaha you're all fantastic, but, seriously, I don't see this puritanism of "potence should ONLY do damage" as a limitation for the Cardgame. We need to think a little out of the box. > Potence doesn't only do damage. It destroys equipment (Shattering Blow/Fractured Armament). It burns locations (Rampage). It taps minions (Brick Laying). It cycles cards (Hourglass of the Mind). It has a bleed modifier (Power of One, anarch). It cancels actions (Tangle Atropos' Hand - actually not terrible if you like 'responsible stealth bleed' and you don't have Spying Mission available to you, but do have Potence). But what limitations are there? You are terrified I will punch you, so you get -3 negative intercept. I smash my way through this wall creating a new shortcut, so I get +2 stealth. I threaten some guy with a face punching, so I get +2 intercept. I flex my muscles at your retainers, who all come flocking to me because otherwise I'll knock their teeth out. (Note: does not apply to wraith retainers.) Half the point of designing collectible card games is giving players interesting boxes for them to think outside, to challenge new deck building. It really shouldn't be merely saying "Oh, well, Potence couldn't do this before, so I'll think outside the box and hey presto, Potence has a Deflection clone."

James touches on the root here. Theres giving a discipline something great it didnt have before, typically 2 useful effects between basic and superior. Those kinds of cards are like deep song, eyes of argus, govern(not new, obviously), terror frenzy, etc. Both levels of the card are good. Next step down is a card where one effect is something the discipline needed badly that can win games and the other ability is something not as great, but useful anyway. Loss is the prime example here, the bleed being the great the burn being utility, but id also consider pack alpha on the same level, the pulling out a retainer in combat being great (not "needed" but great, especially for ani without multiact, and it was pre-deep song...) and the strength bonus being the ok toolboxy part. The third step, imo, of new cards and abilities for a discipline the the "as above" types of things. Something the discipline either lacked or didnt do well. Same level of good is combo cards that do 2 things the discipline either had on seperate cards, or one ability new and another one they have a billion of. So, under my skin for thanatosis gave thn non-hags wrinkle stealth, and frees up slots a little. Note, samedi have obf too, but not all groupings are as good with it(i run psychic veil with dead hookers) so under skin is good. Potence actions that get permastrength (we need a pdf one thats between HM and PS) are similar. Then the second part of this grouping is swallowed by the night, deny, resist earths grasp, rapid change, etc, where two abilities that are useful but on seperate cards are on one card. The stuff that ISNT one of these 3 good idea types are things where a discipline would arbitrarily get an illogical ability. Protean sucks. Thats no reason to give it proflection "reaction, 1 blood. pro: only usable when being bled after blocks are declined. Tap this miniom and chose a methuselah other than the acting minions controller. That methuselah is now being bled. PRO: as above, but dont tap this minion. Oh and your hand damafe is agg this turn. Because this is a protean card" Anytime a known lack of good defense clan or discipline needs a second trad and or deflection, it needs something in theme that lets them block bleeds/actions,,not a clone of those cards. The. Disciplines lose theme, etc.....