Ventrue Brainstorming

I really want to play Ventrue, but I am tired of getting blocked all of the time. I've tried the usual methods (Pentex, Seduction, Majesty, Anarch Troublemaker, Misdirection, Daring the Dawn), but I find that I get blocked with my zero to one stealth actions. I've used less traditional methods (Alacrity, Forced March, Natasha Volfcheck, Monestary of Shadows,), but they tend to junk up the deck. What methods work for you to make Ventrue successful more consistently. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

Similar thing happened in our meta — once the players learnt of the high output of pool damage they always ensured had enough wakes, low cap untapped minions to deal with them. You may need to retire them for a while or try the obfuscate angle: Arika DOM FOR OBF PRE aus cel — inner circle Marcus Vitel DOM FOR OBF OBT PRE — prince Lucinde, Alastor DOM FOR PRE obf pot tha — justicar Queen Anne DOM FOR PRE aus obf — prince + Jaroslav Pascek CEL POT PRE for obf — justicar Another approach is sticks, hidden strengths + a few disarms: Emerson Bridges DOM FOR PRE pot Lucinde, Alastor DOM FOR PRE obf pot tha Disarm, freak drive diablerie discourages blocking. Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

And don't forget the "Nobody expects" the Kiss of Ra. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Ive got a maryanne alastor deck, and my stealth is perfect paragon and outferior tangle atropos hand. Not great, but its a thing. My agg repair deck used lucinde and victorine and used repair the undead flesh(and pentinet resilience, skin o night, etc) with dawn op and weathr control. Basically, ventrue get blocked. DtD, kiss of ra, day op, seduction, and torping tricks are neat, but oiutside of that, stealth (the g2-3 build) and perfect paragon/bonding are all you got. Oh, and force of personality and outferior nuetral guard. You COULD do a ventrue with 44s or deagles build, and run suppressing fire, but its up to you. Thats be 12 ish cards with funs and concealeds then. 6-8 suppressing fire. But i suppose sniper rifles would be neat too, still a chunk of dexk though .

> brandonsantacruz wrote: > I really want to play Ventrue, but I am tired of getting blocked all of the time. > Ventrue simply get blocked. The key is to take more actions than they can possibly handle. You mentioned Majesty, but Freak Drive is also (obviously) your friend. If you want to play with larger vampires, you'll have to force actions through since you'll have fewer of them. Otherwise, break out Edward Vignes. Mind Numb makes it harder for your prey to handle follow-up actions. Plus, it's something to do after you play Majesty after your first action. When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

Play Pentex ! (Anarch Troublemaker, Misdirection, Blind spot)

I am currently enjoying a Ventrue deck using occasional stealth (such as Mirror Walk, Perfect Paragon and, obviously, Monastery of Shadows and Creepshow Casino.) The crypt consists of Lucinde, Alastor and Victorine Lafourcade (both have Thaumaturgy ), Katarina Kornfeld (who has an inherent +1 stealth if you control a ready prince), plus other princes: Johannes Castelein, Epikasta Rigatos, Mustafa, The Heir, and Victor Pelletier. Needless to say that the deck also packs a few Daring the Dawn (just in case) and The Uncoiling (mainly against the Unmasking). V:EKN Website Coordinator

There are quite a few configurations with Ventrue, which are quite powerful. In general, the most basic, lawfirm, is well described here . I have a fairly well-built Ventrue deck around Hardestadt and Gustav Breidenstein, who share 5 disciplines, have shitload of voting power and can take your arms away and diablerize at will. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

> kombainas wrote: > There are quite a few configurations with Ventrue, which are quite powerful. In general, the most basic, lawfirm, is well described here . > > I have a fairly well-built Ventrue deck around Hardestadt and Gustav Breidenstein, who share 5 disciplines, have shitload of voting power and can take your arms away and diablerize at will. > I think he needed more broad advice, but Hardestadt fuelex by heartsblood is always a block deterrant. Also, protean skill card amd horrific countenance

Agree with poster who said play with Obf.

This one's my favorite everyone's eager to fight when they see this crypt, until they get a couple grenades to the face

Well, I think most of the stuff has been mentionned but basically if you get block too much -> Find ways not to be blocked: - include one spread discipline, obfuscate for example - more pentexes and so on - make actions that don't threaten people (that's a key with multi actions decks) -> Don't be harmed when they block you - include combat/ combat ends - Multi actions - Play cards like kiss of ra or mirror walk Basically, you need to remember that you can't do everything in a game. Ventrue are really good at making huge pool damages but in exchange they have troubles passing blockers, so you would need to focus your game on either making more damages when an action goes through, so you just need like one turn to kill your prey when you want it, or focus on getting more defense so you can shift the aggression of the people towards somebody else, and take opportunities when you find it to kill your prey without getting blocked too much, because it has been using its resources on another player, for example IC Organized play coordinator Please contact me with any OP query using the mail in my profile

> Haze wrote: > This one's my favorite > > everyone's eager to fight when they see this crypt, until they get a couple grenades to the face > Man, I miss Perlman.

> brandonsantacruz wrote: > I really want to play Ventrue, but I am tired of getting blocked all of the time. I've tried the usual methods (Pentex, Seduction, Majesty, Anarch Troublemaker, Misdirection, Daring the Dawn), but I find that I get blocked with my zero to one stealth actions. > What are you trying to do? More bleed? More political actions? If you're only going for one, you're probably not capitalizing on your Fortitude, and you may be giving players unnecessary time to cycle their hand and draw back into more wakes, Second Traditions etc. For masters you haven't mentioned: - Blind Spot isn't terrible, and if your prey has a designated bouncer (that weenie with some spliced on Dominate, say), it can also protect you against bounce. - Creepshow Casino isn't altogether terrible, and cheaper than Monastery of Shadows, though it lacks the hand size and is only usable on undirected actions Bleeding - consider Bonding and Dominate Kine, which can take you up to 2 stealth. Perfect Paragon can you give negative intercept, and is a versatile card in small numbers for its use as vote push. Approximation of Loyalty is surprisingly popular in the TWDA in small numbrs, one or two per deck. The inferior is decent when facing, say, a lowbie and midbie grinder deck. At superior, cancel a Wake, cancel a bounce, cancel Second Tradition. Daring the Dawn and Day Operation aren't unusable. If you bleed during your predator's minion phase with Enkil Cog, you could rescue yourself in your own turn or perhaps pop a pre-played Renewed Vigor - assuming your predator can't act after you, make sure you know the sequencing rules well for this. But even without such shenanigans, bleed in your own turn, Freak, bleed in your predator's turn with Enkil Cog, untap in your own turn, call a KRC, Freak, bleed in your own turn... is a decent way of cutting through defence. People haven't so far mentioned Mind Rape. If you can push one through, you can do a lot to screw up key resources of your prey - take all their blood with a Heidelberg, do something to send them to torpor, have them diablerize someone yuo've previously Kiss of Ra-ed then burn them with your titles, steal their equipment using a normal equip action. You might consider unblockable action modifiers here, because you don't need to worry about being bounced, as you might with an unblockable bleed. Similarly, you might pair a few Kiss of Ras with one or two Graverobbings. How are your actions being blocked? There might be metagame specific tech you could employ. If you see a lot of equipment, consider an Anarch Troublemaker. Are you playing a lot of politics and worried about what happens when you oust your current prey, moving your grand-prey wall next to you? Cripple your prey but then use him as a blocker while you soften up the !Ventrue grinder or the Howler wall cross-table. It probably has some Eagle's Sight or Falcon's Eye, but not generally enough, unless you get unlucky. Banishment. Key vampire, force an action through somehow (pick your time, gather up your resources) and give your prey a turn off from their Volker-Second Tradition-fest. Hand cycling. Against a good wall, an action heavy deck can get its hand clogged a little. Consider The Barrens. Consider Dreams of the Sphinx. Consider Visit from the Capuchin. Consider Fragment of the Book of Nod. Use your discard phase. And don't forget that you can play some cards uselessly - even if you know you're going to be blocked, you can still play Threats in the hope of cycling into your stealth location a little quicker. Negotiate. If you're playing votes, you usually have a lot of negotiation capital - Parity Shift, Con Boon, throwing a spare point from a KRC the right way, adding someone else to your Rumours of Gehenna etc. You might be able to get your cross-table buddy to scratch your back if you scratch his.

You can always take the stickmen approach and just play walking sticks, loads of prevent, and maybe some target vitals and/or pulled fangs to make people think twice about blocking you. Obviously if going this route you want to focus on guys with superior fortitude.

> Klaital wrote: > Obviously if going this route you want to focus on guys with superior fortitude. > If willing to have fun with this sort of route, you could try a hybrid weenie-ish Fortitude + key fatties deck, and go for Trap + Undead Persistence. A crypt like Victor Pelletier, Mustapha, Victor Donaldson, Lodin, Graham Gottesman (group 4-5 Ventrue titles), plus a bunch of weenie Fortitude could be mildly hilarious. Sadly, you don't get that much Ventrue weenie Fortitude (Portia, 4 cap), but you can add of vampires like T.J., Ulrike Rothbart, Randel the Coward, Rico Loco etc. Could certainly be a fun way of playing the game.

I tried Ishtarri version with embraces (Bamba), who uses sticks and refuse to die. This concept might be a little better with Ishtarri due to great reactions available for Laibon, which can be played even by Bambas, installed untap and installed maneuver/press. Perhaps, if you want to play hitback combat with Ventrue, just don't, or use an out of clan discipline. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > Klaital wrote: > > Obviously if going this route you want to focus on guys with superior fortitude. > > > If willing to have fun with this sort of route, you could try a hybrid weenie-ish Fortitude + key fatties deck, and go for Trap + Undead Persistence. > > A crypt like Victor Pelletier, Mustapha, Victor Donaldson, Lodin, Graham Gottesman (group 4-5 Ventrue titles), plus a bunch of weenie Fortitude could be mildly hilarious. Sadly, you don't get that much Ventrue weenie Fortitude (Portia, 4 cap), but you can add of vampires like T.J., Ulrike Rothbart, Randel the Coward, Rico Loco etc. Could certainly be a fun way of playing the game. > Very doable. I have a weenie and mids grinder wit stick trap, brainwash, and bleeds with some blocking Never played it in a tournament, as id have to shower afterword....... But i showed it to Bell once, he shook his head and handed it baxk with a sigh. Anyway, Andys 1cap, Aimee Laroux is a 2 with for and pre, then theres plenty of 3s and 4s in the grouping. Ive done weenie for pre flash grenades with pentinent resillience, and weenie diversion, so Ishtari and Daughters are good support here, ive checked. Bernerd the Scourge could be neat too (built in blood hunt call on weenies, has gangrel in clans and pre) But, theres also the angle with disarms and potence and graverobbing in g2-3 with a ventrue and a giovannie small mid(3/4) with for pot dom, and lucinde, lazvernious, etc for fatties. What blocks you the most? Weenies and allies should fear tension in the ranks.

Acting? What is this of which you speak? Perhaps focusing on cards with bendy arrows would serve you better. After all, there's no real reason to soil the Armani with too much mid-game effort.

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > Acting? What is this of which you speak? > > Perhaps focusing on cards with bendy arrows would serve you better. > > After all, there's no real reason to soil the Armani with too much mid-game effort. > But what if I block your block, Darby?

Good ideas here, thanks. I like the idea of reactive stealth, especially actual stealth (as opposed to pseudo stealth like daring the dawn). Proactive stealth (i.e. this dude can't block or react as announced/ as a master) is ok, but requires a limited number of opponents. I think that a combination of tapping/pentexing plus stealth is good. Majesty and freak drive are also integral parts of how Ventrue decks work. I'll think about it. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

Recently I'm toying with an idea of an Arika deck where every turn she Embraces and does something else. Arika gives extra stealth to her "daughters" and protects our pool. There's also other usual friends like Ranjan and associates. Not your typical Ventrue deck, for sure. I play Ventrue allot, as some of you might know. The two best decks, imo, are Vemtrue Grinder and Law Firm with 5 and 6 caps, Tomb of Ramaeses III, Parity Shifts and other cheese. You go over walls (or anything with constant 1 intercept) with carefully timed First Traditions and lots of actions per turn. When you have 4 or 5 vampires, freak drives, majesties, seductions and tap masters, if you play right, you actually do fairly well without extra stealth. I think the biggest enemy of law firms is not intercept. It's Delaying Tactics and DI(1 and 2).

> Brum wrote: > Recently I'm toying with an idea of an Arika deck where every turn she Embraces and does something else. > Arika gives extra stealth to her "daughters" and protects our pool. > There's also other usual friends like Ranjan and associates. > Not your typical Ventrue deck, for sure. > Arika is, of course, awesome, but you might want to consider the alternatives like Queen Anne and Lucinde, maybe Marcus, as you get to play Third Tradition that way which means you can throw down Obfuscate onto the Ventrue weenies. Probably add in Catherine du Bois. You could mix and match some Embrace in there too, which is handy if you do decide to include a few Arika as well, and for multi-acting potential - oh look, Queen Anne has just popped out two progeny and untapped to bleed you. You need to be careful about your blood management, but having the option can be nice.

Yeah, I thought about using Princes. Besides Marcus (not a real Ventrue) only Arika can cloak others. Arika has plus bleed, votes and the deck doesn't have the slots for masters that would allow for a second big cap. The idea is Legacy of Pander, but with Arika and weenie Ventrue. Try to make up for slower start with embraces, better stealth. Haven't tested it, but the plan is to reach mid game with same amount of minions as the panders, but less desperate. Panders are do or die.

> Brum wrote: > The idea is Legacy of Pander, but with Arika and weenie Ventrue. > Tiago, If you're looking at Ventrue Directorate Assembly, I approve. Grossly underplayed, especially since it provides a LOT of potential for scaling by stacking multiple copies. My experience with the card suggests that using Arika might be problematic (she tends to scale vertically, and VDA wants to scale horizontally.) She's awfully big to get started quickly and weaving Third Tradition into the mix gets complicated. I have another option to consider if you want to contact me about it. D.

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > > > Brum wrote: > > The idea is Legacy of Pander, but with Arika and weenie Ventrue. > > > Tiago, > > If you're looking at Ventrue Directorate Assembly, I approve. Grossly underplayed, especially since it provides a LOT of potential for scaling by stacking multiple copies. > > My experience with the card suggests that using Arika might be problematic (she tends to scale vertically, and VDA wants to scale horizontally.) She's awfully big to get started quickly and weaving Third Tradition into the mix gets complicated. I have another option to consider if you want to contact me about it. > > D. > Last time i had VDA in play, my predator played New Carthage Anyway, i ran Graham and Muktar with mustafa, victors(all two of em) and maybe 1 lodin. Was decent, the idea was lawfirm and then id parity shift to pay for flamethrowers, which cost enough to set up another parity shift.....worked ok. Not the best deck ever, but second trad plus flamethrower tends to detur anyone not positive they can kick your ass or generate eniugh stealth to pass 2+ yoir media locations.....

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > > > TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > > > > > Brum wrote: > > > The idea is Legacy of Pander, but with Arika and weenie Ventrue. > > > > > > > > Tiago, > > > > If you're looking at Ventrue Directorate Assembly, I approve. Grossly underplayed, especially since it provides a LOT of potential for scaling by stacking multiple copies. > > > > My experience with the card suggests that using Arika might be problematic (she tends to scale vertically, and VDA wants to scale horizontally.) She's awfully big to get started quickly and weaving Third Tradition into the mix gets complicated. I have another option to consider if you want to contact me about it. > > > > D. > > > Last time i had VDA in play, my predator played New Carthage > > Anyway, i ran Graham and Muktar with mustafa, victors(all two of em) and maybe 1 lodin. Was decent, the idea was lawfirm and then id parity shift to pay for flamethrowers, which cost enough to set up another parity shift.....worked ok. Not the best deck ever, but second trad plus flamethrower tends to detur anyone not positive they can kick your ass or generate eniugh stealth to pass 2+ yoir media locations..... > Being the Ventrue nut that you guys know I am, and the fact that ever since I was in last year's NAC, I've been in African countries with no VtES, I've had time to think about all of those factors. For 2nd trad, flamethrower, parity shift, I think group 1 and 2 malkies are better. About the scaling of Arika, I agree obviously, but I still think that Embrace is better than 3rd trad because Arika can do it and the weenies can do it. It'll be Arika and the 2 to 5 caps. Also, being less dependable on Parity Shifts is good these days. Those reasons and the fact that I own the real Arika...

So THAT'S where the original went! And I wasn't advocating just 3rd trad over embrace, I was advocating weaving then together to get scale from the VDA quickly and to leverage the 3 Praxis that give cap increase (so embrace can both embrace and trad). But it sounds like you've got your plan in place. Look forward to another Arika TWDA soon.

Oh, I had a weenie Ventrue deck with VDA and the caitiff that had . Even had a Revelation of the Sire. Igo the Hungry was Ventrue Justicar once. Fun times. These days everybody has , Unmasking, Carlton or some other thing that grinds this to a halt. And not having inherent votes to start with, only makes it even weaker in the post KoT era.

> Brum wrote: > Oh, I had a weenie Ventrue deck with VDA and the caitiff that had . > Even had a Revelation of the Sire. > Igo the Hungry was Ventrue Justicar once. > Fun times. > > These days everybody has , Unmasking, Carlton or some other thing that grinds this to a halt. > And not having inherent votes to start with, only makes it even weaker in the post KoT era. > Funny revelations of the sire got mentioned...... I was just thinking about using it in daughters and trujah last night. Daughters because of things like conductor, but trujah because for some reason i thought it was like a sanguine instruction in addition to clan granter. I have no idea why i thought this either. Oh, and darby, if you can loan me 14 Baltimore Purge, i can try adding another Arika deck to the TWD....