Prince of Karlsruhe BDay Bash
Karlsruhe, Germany, 23rd Feb. 2014
3R+F
15 Players
Martin Schumacher
www.vekn.net/event-calendar/event/7480
Deck Name: The better Goratrix
Created by: Michal Kazmierczak as seen on Lackey,with a few changes
Crypt (Capacity min=3 max=11 avg=7; 12 cards)
================================================
5x Saulot, The Wanderer 11 dai AUS FOR OBE THA VAL Salubri:4
2x Neighbor John 5 dom for AUS !Ventrue:4
1x Lana Butcher 3 dom for Ventrue:3
1x Maldavis 4 for pre AUS Caitiff:3
1x Nkechi 4 aus for val !Salubri:4
1x Rosemarie 3 mel FOR Daughter of Cacophony:4
1x Solomon Batanea 5 nec AUS FOR Harbinger of Skulls:4
Library (90 cards)
=====================
Master (18 cards)
3x Pentex(TM) Subversion
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
2x Powerbase: Montreal
2x Rack, The
2x Wider View
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Fear of Mekhet
1x Giant's Blood
1x Metro Underground
1x Sight Beyond Sight
1x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
1x Wash
Action (5 cards)
4x Magic of the Smith
1x Biothaumaturgic Experiment
Equipment (6 cards)
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Ivory Bow
1x Kevlar Vest
1x Light Intensifying Goggles
1x Sport Bike
Action Modifier (3 cards)
2x Repulsion
1x Enkil Cog
Reaction (34 cards)
8x Eagle's Sight
8x Eyes of Argus
8x Forced Awakening
4x On the Qui Vive
3x My Enemy's Enemy
3x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (24 cards)
10x Anesthetic Touch
6x Hidden Strength
4x Target Vitals
4x Unflinching Persistence
> ReverendRevolver wrote:
> This, in my incredibly biased opinion, looks the the most fun deck ive seen win a tournament in ages.
>
I agree. And there was a second Salubri deck in the finals!
> M.Schumacher wrote:
> Migalart (sorry, don´t know your real name), as seen on Lackey,
> with a few changes)
>
His real name is Michal Kazmierczak, member of Inner Circle
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
My 2nd place deck:
Deck Name: Tupdogfiller 1.0
Author: Erol Hammer
Description: Original idea by Tuomas Vuokko
Crypt (Capacity min=1 max=9 avg=5.41; 22 cards)
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2x Antonio d'Erlette 5 dom for pot THA !Tremere:4
2x Ladislas Toth, The Torch 7 for AUS DOM THA !Tremere:3
4x Malgorzata 9 pre AUS DOM THA VIC !Tremere:4
3x Orlando Oriundus 9 obf AUS DOM THA !Tremere:4
3x Paul Cordwood 8 obf pre AUS DOM THA !Tremere:4
8x Tupdog 1 POT VIS Gargoyle:3
Library (80 cards)
=====================
Master (17 cards)
4x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Giant's Blood
2x Information Highway
1x Jake Washington (Hunter)
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
6x Villein
2x Wider View
Action (12 cards)
8x Govern the Unaligned
2x Rutor's Hand
2x Zillah's Tears
Political Action (8 cards)
1x Ancient Influence
2x Domain Challenge
4x Kine Resources Contested
1x Political Stranglehold
Ally (4 cards)
4x Nephandus (Mage)
Action Modifier (14 cards)
2x Conditioning
2x Foreshadowing Destruction
10x Mirror Walk
Reaction (15 cards)
5x Deflection
3x Eyes of Argus
4x On the Qui Vive
3x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (8 cards)
2x Raking Talons
6x Target Vitals
Combo (2 cards)
2x Murmur of the False Will
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4b. (Feb 25, 2014 13:36:42)
- Prince of Karlsruhe, Germany
> Kiddo wrote:
> For example, the last TWD (this one), the one with Saulot as main blocker - is very intriguing to me, but even more interesting is the other posted deck, which ended in the finals with most VPs, but for the life of me I cannot fathom how this deck earns VPs, as it looks like an incoherent mess to me. I really wanted to ask, since the author seems to frequent this forum, but I'm not sure if that kind of discussion is quite acceptable on twd subforum...
>
I'm bringing this quote here, as it seems way off topic to address it in the other thread.
Actually, I'm not sure why there is so much reluctance to question how decks work. Sure, saying "Deck XYZ looks like a piece of crap to me. [Compliment that arguably insults the player's opponents] You must be a really good player." is not tactful.
Tactful would be more like "Did you ever find that you had votes in hand when you wanted something else?", "Did anyone ever Entrancement away your Nephandi?", or whatever.
As for Erol's deck, which is what I think the question is about. I see vampires with good specials. I see Tupdogs which are broken. I see Govern, KRC, stealth that doubles as combat defense, quality allies, Villein, and bounce. I'm not really seeing why it wouldn't function outside of some environment full of stealth rush. It's just a ton of goodstuff packed into a deck. Sure, that could lead to synergy or flow issues, but that's what x4 Dreams is for.
While it plays too many l33t cards for me, I quite like the many angles the deck has.
Traveller Card Game
Valid.
When Erol first posted this, i almost said "yoir combat package made me lol"
But, metas differ, and i wouldnt mean that insultingly, but seriously, agg, and more agg is amusing.
If someone doesnt understand why 4 horrific countenance is a good idea, maybe they dont get blocked as much as someone with that in a twd. Asking "how" should happen more often. Even terms should get explained.
When i write out a deck that uses indomitabilithy and hidden strength, and alot of them, i call it a PnP deck. If you run +strength, and lots of prevent and press as your combat, its logical. Most players seee pnp, and assume princes and parity shift. I dont. If you run princes even as 2nd trad combat, you should also run parity shift. Its like playing dom and calline the deck dom and deflection and govern. Why say it, you know its good so you will run it? So, you may run a fee prevent n press thimgs, like this twd with saulot or stickmen builds, or alot, suck as the twd from awhile ago with Hardestadt, joseph ogrady, etc. If you run revel and loads of gangrel with animalism and fortitude, and prevent n press, same idea....
Off that tangent, the nephundas dog deck looks ok, but im no fan of either nephundi or tupdogs. The evil mages are ok, just not as good as warghouls, or as fun a deck for the IRL $cost. Tupdogs arent as good as converts for the $value, and also are the opitome of why gargoyles see little love. Tupdogs are broken, so anything printed to help non slaves needs to not help tupdogs, limiting most options, ever if we werent oop. Also, the ideas been done to death.
But this deck is alot different. Zillahs oit top heavy crypt, govern some to midcaps, and do fun stuff. You dont die thanks to villeins and governs early, then tupdogs flippimg.
So, questions: did you often contest dreams?
Any problems getting votes off? Obviously, the winning deck didnt care much, but rest of tourney?
Other comabt a problem, chiefly fortitude?
Why no graverobbing? Safe to assume you plan on putting vamps in the dirt.
Did you ever have issues with updog flow? Or did wider view cope with it(anyone not familiar with seeing these run well/fail, or never playing one ever, the high tupdog crypt volume helps you keep a pair active to do bad thimgs with. Late game, losing one to chameleon or other malarchy, such as amaranth, can be pesky if you are in control but low on pool)
Since I'm the one who brought up the mechanic of this deck in the first place, I'll be more clear on my issues on this deck...
It has quite a bit of Tupdog angle, with 8 of them, but the entire point of them seems to be - they strike for 1-3, can't deal with manouver nor with S:CE. There is also a bit of an political angle, which I get, but there are so many vampires in the crypt without any votes...
There is quite a lot of stealth, but only 4 (6) bleed modifiers, which wouldn't suggest this deck can rely on bleeding to oust, even with Orlando's +1 bleed.
I mean, what I don't actually get is how would the combination of this vote+bleed work with an, in my opinion, ineffective combat facet and still earn 2 GW. But hey, might be the meta...
> Kiddo wrote:
> Since I'm the one who brought up the mechanic of this deck in the first place, I'll be more clear on my issues on this deck...
>
> It has quite a bit of Tupdog angle, with 8 of them, but the entire point of them seems to be - they strike for 1-3, can't deal with manouver nor with S:CE. There is also a bit of an political angle, which I get, but there are so many vampires in the crypt without any votes...
>
When I saw that deck, my first thought was: "Brilliant! The Tupdogs are there to boost the crypt size for Paul Cordwood's awesome ability!"
I'd wager those two Raking Talons are there as a bonus surprise, or to make people fear Tupdog rushes, not to lay waste to the whole table.
The resultst weren't reported to the database.
www.vekn.net/event-calendar/event/7480
Can the organizer or prince (happy birthday!) can fix this?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Kiddo wrote:
> It has quite a bit of Tupdog angle, with 8 of them, but the entire point of them seems to be - they strike for 1-3, can't deal with manouver nor with S:CE.
>
It's not a combat deck. It just has some combat.
> There is also a bit of an political angle, which I get, but there are so many vampires in the crypt without any votes...
>
It's not a vote deck. It just has some voting.
There are only two vampires above capacity one with no votes.
> There is quite a lot of stealth, but only 4 (6) bleed modifiers, which wouldn't suggest this deck can rely on bleeding to oust, even with Orlando's +1 bleed.
>
It's not a bleed deck. It just has some bleed.
Well, that's not true. I play a lot of bleed decks that can't bleed for as much as this deck does. (... But, on the flip side, my decks can hunt for one ...?)
> I mean, what I don't actually get is how would the combination of this vote+bleed work with an, in my opinion, ineffective combat facet and still earn 2 GW. But hey, might be the meta...
>
How is this not just a toolboxy stealth bleed deck with a host of strong cards? Or, if you don't think it's core of stealth bleed is as prominent as I do, just a toolbox, goodstuff deck?
If you can't pass votes, well, maybe Tupdog torps someone and Nephandus eats. If Tupdog can't land Raking Talons, maybe all it does is chump block a rush while you Govern at stealth and get out of combat for free when blocked. As with any other unfocused deck, it has to adapt its versatility to the given table and not just try to power its way through around a narrow strategy.
Narrow strategy decks aren't the only decks that win. So, I'm still unclear on what is so surprising. Does nobody play toolbox decks in your meta?
Traveller Card Game
> ICL wrote:
> Does nobody play toolbox decks in your meta?
>
Sure they do. But I haven't seen in a while that a toolboxy deck with large vampires scores 2 GWs in a tournament, that's it.
The problem I have with a deck such as yours is that, for me, everything should work in theory, but it never does in practice. Yeah, I've gone to tournaments with political decks with large vampires (Tremeres/!Tremeres) and I had lots of stealth, and a moderate amount of bleed and it worked quite nice, but never could I successfully combine politics, stealth, bleed and offensive combat - my draws were always so skewered that I could never ever draw into a card that I need.
I mean, last tournament I went, I took very offensive political DoC deck, and I threw in both Dreams and Visits from the Capucin - even with all that and Yseult's special (meaning I had 10-13 cards in hand), i couldn't combine a 3-card 'combo' - a political card (any), a vote push (any) and a Voter Captivation.
That may be just my luck, but from my experience, I cannot see how a rather fragile toolbox deck such as yours can consistently win GWs.
I guess, that it's all about the art of holding cards and discarding.
For example, it's no good if you torporize a vampire when there are 4-5 players in a table. Now, if you have 2-3 players left, torporizing a vampire makes a bigger impact.
I'm not saying, that you should not use aggravated damage when there are 4-5 people in play. If you manage to torporize the single untapped minion of your prey who can play deflections, you have a good chance to oust him by bleeding (even if he had a wake in hand).
On the other hand, you can influence out a tupdog, discard Raking Talons and during next round have that tupdog vote KRC - who wants to block tupdog when a player has discarded an "extra" Raking Talons?
Just a thought...
----
Banging trashcans, breaking windows
We'll wake you up tonight
We like the good time, we scream and shout
And that's what fun's about
> Kiddo wrote:
>
> > ICL wrote:
> > Does nobody play toolbox decks in your meta?
> >
> Sure they do. But I haven't seen in a while that a toolboxy deck with large vampires scores 2 GWs in a tournament, that's it.
>
Erol is just a very good player. That is what counts. Look with what decks Jay Kristoff is winning nearly always (which is a good job, Jay ).
Baron of Frankfurt
> Joscha wrote:
>
> > Kiddo wrote:
> >
> > > ICL wrote:
> > > Does nobody play toolbox decks in your meta?
> > >
> > Sure they do. But I haven't seen in a while that a toolboxy deck with large vampires scores 2 GWs in a tournament, that's it.
> >
> Erol is just a very good player. That is what counts. Look with what decks Jay Kristoff is winning nearly always (which is a good job, Jay ).
>
Jay will have 87 minions, all of which will have baseball bats and camera phones, and he wil STILL somehow get at least 2 people at the table convinced that, not only is HE not the tablethreat, somebody else is, and if they get dealt with, this other (conveniently not named Jay) player will have the game in the bag if no dealt with.
Not manipulative, just people somehow see him as non threatening without effort that other players spend on just playing a deck. Weirdest freaking thing.
Jays won with decks other players leave at home.
The deck was dissected by Orian Gissler at his blog. It has a lot of synergies and it suited my playstyle, so I tried it out. The good thing is, no two games are the same with this deck. That makes it a lot of fun to play.
You can bleed with one of your !tremere and get blocked, throw in some tupdog, untap and call a vote. So you dont lose an important turn to do something to further your chance to win.
And you can play a lot more variations, because the deck is build on modules that you can exchange easily with another. Combat-, Equipment-, Vote Modules spring to mind.
And by the way, would i have won my own birthday tournament, I dont think so, that would be kinda sucky
- Prince of Karlsruhe, Germany