Wondering about a potential Quick Jab deck...
If a vampire that does aggravated hand damage, such as Hektor, uses quick jab, will this strike do aggravated damage?
Quick jab reads- Strike: hand strike (at strength damage) with first strike. If more than 1 damage is inflicted with this strike, ignore the excess.
Hektor reads- Damage from Hektor's hand strikes is aggravated.
This would be a great way to dunk vamps before they could play strike:combat ends cards or strike:dodges, you think?
Yes, Hektor does agg with Quick Jab. And no, per rulebook, dodges are faster and combat ends even more.
Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.
> kombainas wrote:
> Yes, Hektor does agg with Quick Jab. And no, per rulebook, dodges are faster and combat ends even more.
>
S:CE isn't faster than Dodge. It's just that Dodge doesn't prevent the S:CE effect.
If the S:CE effect does something else as well, the Dodge will protect you from that - for example, damage from Catatonic Fear, or the untap effect of inferior Meld with the Land (which is an 'offensive' effect).
LSJ defined it that technically Dodge doesn't resolve ( [LSJ 20041202] ), it just protects you if it's chosen. But if you prefer to think of it as resolving, the order goes:
1) S+CE + Dodge
2) First strike
3) Normal strike, and other effects at that speed (e.g. Wolf Companion)
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > kombainas wrote:
> > Yes, Hektor does agg with Quick Jab. And no, per rulebook, dodges are faster and combat ends even more.
> >
> S:CE isn't faster than Dodge. It's just that Dodge doesn't prevent the S:CE effect.
>
> If the S:CE effect does something else as well, the Dodge will protect you from that - for example, damage from Catatonic Fear, or the untap effect of inferior Meld with the Land (which is an 'offensive' effect).
>
> LSJ defined it that technically Dodge doesn't resolve ( [LSJ 20041202] ), it just protects you if it's chosen. But if you prefer to think of it as resolving, the order goes:
>
> 1) S+CE + Dodge
> 2) First strike
> 3) Normal strike, and other effects at that speed (e.g. Wolf Companion)
>
4) additionals
It should be noted, that first strike being so useless has been complained about and disxussed for some time, and if Jyhad had things like "dodge with first strike" or "ScE at first strike" it would be easier to justify it otherwise, but we are pretty far in now for even logical rules chamges.
But, Rotschreck still gets around SCE.
> ReverendRevolver wrote:
> 4) additionals
>
Additionals are a whole different strike resolution phase, that resolve themselves in their own order, following the normal rules. Additionals don't all resolve at once - and if I have more than one additional strike, each one gets its own phase.
While S:CE-ing during an additional strike resolution would be rare, stranger things happen. And a Cel/Pro user might draw into Form of Mist, for example.
> ReverendRevolver wrote:
> It should be noted, that first strike being so useless has been complained about and disxussed for some time,
>
It's not useless, it's just rarely worth making a special effort to get it. But when it comes for 'free', it's not bad - Muddled Vampire Hunter can be pretty awesome fun, and you sometimes see people give him an Ivory Bow, because any strike he makes is at first strike, not just his innate strike.
And, as here, Quick Jab with short-chain aggropoke is reasonably decent. If you're playing someone with innate agg hand damage, a couple of Quick Jabs in the deck may not be entirely wasted. The TWDA has this to offer, with Lambach and assorted Tzimisce aggro damage: www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=7378