Name: Sound Barrier
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Presence/Melpominee
Cost: 2 blood
Reduce a bleed against you by 4.
[mel] Only usable when a minion bleeds you for more than X, where X is his or her blood or life total. The action ends (unsuccessfully).
[MEL] As [mel] above, and the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable aggravated damage.
It could be changed to an action (put this card in play. Whenever.... and burn this card).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
In my opinion on level this is way too strong. 2 blood to prevent 4 pool damage in inferior for a discipline which is focused on other things (and does them well) is just too good. 2 blood for 2 pool would be still worth to play, yet not worth to include in the deck is where I'd see a proper power level for an outferior discipline...
Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.
Reducing the cost wouldn't fit the current Melpominee cards (check Virtuosa for instance).
Currently, Daughters don't have any bleed defense. They are forced to rely
1/ on bloat if playing votes
2/ on Ventrue sidekicks for deflection
3/ on Toreador sidekicks for Telepathic Misdirection (but they are scarce)
A bleed defense card in MEL shouldn't be as easy aa Deflection for instance. Player should be given the choice to either rely on Daughters (but at an expensive blood cost) or the previous options.
effect could be changed to:
Only usable when an ally is acting. The action ends (unsuccesfully).
Reduce a bleed against you by 2.
or something else.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Reductions for Presence are what we do not require. Instantaneous Transformation is a very good example of a card which, in stead of helping !Gangrels, helped the Unnamed. And the Unnamed required no help whatsoever. Allowing Presence bleed reduction would result in Sound Barrier being thrown into decks having nothing to do with Daughters. And this should be avoided.
The ally outferior might be worth giving it a go, though. An honest cost for the effect, and a useful one.
> Ankha wrote:
> Name: Sound Barrier
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Discipline: Presence/Melpominee
> Cost: 2 blood
> Reduce a bleed against you by 4.
> [mel] Only usable when a minion bleeds you for more than X, where X is his or her blood or life total. The action ends (unsuccessfully).
> [MEL] As [mel] above, and the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable aggravated damage.
>
> It could be changed to an action (put this card in play. Whenever.... and burn this card).
>
The outferior, as others have said, seems a little bit over the top.
Leaving that aside, the card fits with my standard gripe about many of the bleed defence cards in the game at the moment - they punish the occasional big bleeder, while letting the swarm weenie bleeder or consistent stealth bleeder get off much more lightly. Perhaps, instead, something like:
a) a card put in play which gives -1 bleed to vampires below X capacity, with a limited duration
b) a card put in play with some counters (based on the number of DoC you control?) where you can burn up to 2 per bleed action to reduce the bleed against you, with extra counters at superior
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > Name: Sound Barrier
> > Cardtype: Reaction
> > Discipline: Presence/Melpominee
> > Cost: 2 blood
> > Reduce a bleed against you by 4.
> > [mel] Only usable when a minion bleeds you for more than X, where X is his or her blood or life total. The action ends (unsuccessfully).
> > [MEL] As [mel] above, and the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable aggravated damage.
> >
> > It could be changed to an action (put this card in play. Whenever.... and burn this card).
> >
> The outferior, as others have said, seems a little bit over the top.
>
> Leaving that aside, the card fits with my standard gripe about many of the bleed defence cards in the game at the moment - they punish the occasional big bleeder, while letting the swarm weenie bleeder or consistent stealth bleeder get off much more lightly. Perhaps, instead, something like:
>
> a) a card put in play which gives -1 bleed to vampires below X capacity, with a limited duration
>
> b) a card put in play with some counters (based on the number of DoC you control?) where you can burn up to 2 per bleed action to reduce the bleed against you, with extra counters at superior
>
The card was designed as a defense vs big bleeders. Little bleeders are annoying but 1/ there are already cards that handle them if they're breed weenie (Aranthebes)
2/ if they're not that many, it means you have time to defend yourself.
It's like Archon Investigation and Aranthebes. They serve different purpose. This card is more in line with AI.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Sound Barrier (Aranthebes version)
Action
2 blood
[mel] Put this card on the acting Daughter of Cacophony. Younger minions and allies have -1 bleed while this vampire is ready. Burn this card if this vampire is sent to torpor.
[MEL] As above and no bleed against you will resolve for more than X pool where X is the acting minion's capacity.
Sound Barrier (Ruins of Charizel Version)
Action
A Methuselah may control one copy of Sound Barrier.
[mel] Put this card in play or put 1 counter onto a copy of Sound Barrier in play. You may burn counters from this card instead of pool during another Methuselah's bleed or political actions.
[MEL] As above or put 2 counters on a copy in play and untap.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> Sound Barrier (Aranthebes version)
> Action
> 2 blood
> [mel] Put this card on the acting Daughter of Cacophony. Younger minions and allies have -1 bleed while this vampire is ready. Burn this card if this vampire is sent to torpor.
> [MEL] As above and no bleed against you will resolve for more than X pool where X is the acting minion's capacity.
>
Slightly overpowered since it's cumulative, permanent and can't be contested. Kills too many decks without effort (think about Scout Youngwood playing 2 in a game, lots of predator will have -2 bleed on all their minions...)
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> Sound Barrier (Ruins of Charizel Version)
> Action
> A Methuselah may control one copy of Sound Barrier.
> [mel] Put this card in play or put 1 counter onto a copy of Sound Barrier in play. You may burn counters from this card instead of pool during another Methuselah's bleed or political actions.
> [MEL] As above or put 2 counters on a copy in play and untap.
>
The first one cost you an action for no gain, subsequent ones cost 1 card for no big benefit.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> The card was designed as a defense vs big bleeders.
>
Given that the Daughters have potentially solid options with voting and Choir, they could be deploying Protected Resources. And obviously, Archon Investigation.
See, for example, thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011hgocr which goes the Shattering Crescendo route to victory. thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011russianecq has a copy of Protected Resources.
> Ankha wrote:
> Little bleeders are annoying but 1/ there are already cards that handle them if they're breed weenie (Aranthebes)
>
Less so for the Daughters - that built-in action is quite awkward when the Daughters are often terrible at blocking.
Outferior could be fortitude reduce 2 for a blood (already exists) or 3 for 2 blood (who cares)
Id rather see it make a bleed of >3 into a bleed of 3, and make the acting minion take x unprevwntable damage, where x is the origional bleed amount, and at superior make it only burn one pool from you.
But they dont need bleed defense. Daughters arent bad off. Theyd be overpowered if all g6 was 5, in fact.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > The card was designed as a defense vs big bleeders.
> >
> Given that the Daughters have potentially solid options with voting and Choir, they could be deploying Protected Resources.
>
Votes have pool gain options, sure, as I noted before already.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> And obviously, Archon Investigation.
>
> See, for example, thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011hgocr which goes the Shattering Crescendo route to victory. thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011russianecq has a copy of Protected Resources.
>
Sure, but then no new bleed defense card should be designed then...
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > Little bleeders are annoying but 1/ there are already cards that handle them if they're breed weenie (Aranthebes)
> >
> Less so for the Daughters - that built-in action is quite awkward when the Daughters are often terrible at blocking.
>
Aranthebes is a great card even if you can't defend it. Somestimes, your predator don't have the 5+ vampire to take the action. Even if he takes it, you can still try to block and give him -1 stealth which is not a problem for Daughters (gaining intercept could be problematic, but it's not the case). And finally, it's 1 less bleed action from your predator against you.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> Sound Barrier (Aranthebes version)
> Action
> 2 blood
> [mel] Put this card on the acting Daughter of Cacophony. Younger minions and allies have -1 bleed while this vampire is ready. Burn this card if this vampire is sent to torpor.
> [MEL] As above and no bleed against you will resolve for more than X pool where X is the acting minion's capacity.
>
Easily editable to make it less awesome... just add in "A Methuselah may have only one Sound Barrier".
> Sound Barrier (Ruins of Charizel Version)
> Action
> A Methuselah may control one copy of Sound Barrier.
> [mel] Put this card in play or put 1 counter onto a copy of Sound Barrier in play. You may burn counters from this card instead of pool during another Methuselah's bleed or political actions.
> [MEL] As above or put 2 counters on a copy in play and untap.
>
Daughters come with Fortitude... it can't be awesome...
Could also be "Put in play with 1 counter" and "As above but for 2 counters instead."
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418