Only the finalist has to write a deck list - this is true for all constructed tournaments. This should be done before the finals start - this is required to play the finals. The deck list will be published on vekn.net after the EC is done, Sunday evening at the earliest.
Isak Esbjörnsson Bjärmark
> Joscha wrote:
> Too bad, I loved extrala's overall list analysis last year .
>
Probably the best thing that resulted from the decklist requirement.
Finnish Politics!
Cool, I'll add a Fourth Cycle between round 1 and 2 if I see too many Imbued decks around...
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Too bad. It was really interesting to collect all of the decklists for the EC 2010 and 2012 (thanks to the organizers in Paris and Budapest), and have a look at them after the championships. That provided a very good overview of the metagame of the EC in retrospective. During the tournament it is very hard to get this kind of information. Since when you're playing you're stuck in your cluster of 25 players, and your individual perspective is therefore skewed. And even if you have time to look at individual tables, the impression you get can be utterly wrong. Not all the time, but there will be definitely some exceptions.
On the other hand, I can bring more decks to Sweden, since I don't have to haul 3 to 4 kg of paper back home.
And Jussi's comment that players can always publish their own decklists is sadly only wishful thinking. Most players are either just to lazy or don't have the time to this. Especially when see how hard it is to get the decklists of finalists only.
> extrala wrote:
> Too bad. It was really interesting to collect all of the decklists for the EC 2010 and 2012 (thanks to the organizers in Paris and Budapest), and have a look at them after the championships. That provided a very good overview of the metagame of the EC in retrospective. During the tournament it is very hard to get this kind of information. Since when you're playing you're stuck in your cluster of 25 players, and your individual perspective is therefore skewed. And even if you have time to look at individual tables, the impression you get can be utterly wrong. Not all the time, but there will be definitely some exceptions.
>
> On the other hand, I can bring more decks to Sweden, since I don't have to haul 3 to 4 kg of paper back home.
>
> And Jussi's comment that players can always publish their own decklists is sadly only wishful thinking. Most players are either just to lazy or don't have the time to this. Especially when see how hard it is to get the decklists of finalists only.
>
As a self admitedly lazy player, if i still had a pc with ardb running right now, i would for the sake of the community, submit decks ive lost with.
I think MAYBE individual princes could get this data in tight knit playgroups of 5-20 people, but its just rough but i agree, would be cool.
> Ankha wrote:
> Cool, I'll add a Fourth Cycle between round 1 and 2 if I see too many Imbued decks around...
>
you can add it it you're gonna play the final and you know an imbued deck has reached the finals
> Ankha wrote:
> Cool, I'll add a Fourth Cycle between round 1 and 2 if I see too many Imbued decks around...
>
Decklist or not, that is still cheating.
www.facebook.com/groups/vtes.belgium/
> Ankha wrote:
> Cool, I'll add a Fourth Cycle between round 1 and 2 if I see too many Imbued decks around...
>
> acbishop wrote:
> you can add it it you're gonna play the final and you know an imbued deck has reached the finals
>
I won't be at the EC, but I am going to assume these two comments were meant in an ironic way.
For two high profile players, one of them the V:EKN Vice Chairman, to even make these sorts of comments is borderline scandalous.
When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
@pckvtes
> Jeff wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > Cool, I'll add a Fourth Cycle between round 1 and 2 if I see too many Imbued decks around...
> >
> > acbishop wrote:
> > you can add it it you're gonna play the final and you know an imbued deck has reached the finals
> >
> I won't be at the EC, but I am going to assume these two comments were meant in an ironic way.
>
> For two high profile players, one of them the V:EKN Vice Chairman, to even make these sorts of comments is borderline scandalous.
>
thankfully neither of them will be judging.
Anybody caught cheating will notice that there is still room behind the sauna...
Besides, if you have wanted to cheat, it it has already been stupidly easy.
Finnish Politics!
Of course it was an ironic answer to an ironic comment from Ankha.
I'd prefer if he'd explained in a different way why he does not like the organizers decission instead of doing an ironic comment.
My apologies if the sense of my post was misunderstood.
> acbishop wrote:
> Of course it was an ironic answer to an ironic comment from Ankha.
>
> I'd prefer if he'd explained in a different way why he does not like the organizers decission instead of doing an ironic comment.
>
> My apologies if the sense of my post was misunderstood.
>
I forgot one must not use irony on this forum (but I did force myself to use a smiley... hey, nobody noticed it?)
The purpose of decklists is precisely to avoid the surreptitiously adding of a Delaying Tactics, Deflection. Many players won't do it of course, but it has already happened.
I really can't see what is the trouble with requiring a decklist.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> BenPeal wrote:
> There is _always_ room behind the sauna.
>
But is there always a sauna?
As a judge, you have the first hour to wander around and try to "guess" what decks are played. It's not easy (because you have 100+ decks to guess on first glance), but it's doable.
It can give you a good idea of what is played, but sadly, you'll be missing all the "combo" decks, the toolbox stuff, and, as a general rule, all the unusual and unexpected.
Maybe the judge(s) will have time to walk the tables and gather as much information as possible. It's not that much, but it's still something.
Or the players could chit chat for hours after the games and try to remember what this guy was playing.
Still, it won't be as good as decklists
> Ankha wrote:
> I forgot one must not use irony on this forum (but I did force myself to use a smiley... hey, nobody noticed it?)
>
There is nothing wrong with a bit of irony. But anyone who reads such a post before the first coffee in the morning will not grasp the irony. That is why I recommend using *euro smiley*, for the sake of communication between native and non-native english speakers.
*euro smiley*
On-topic: I suggest that only the cheaters hand in their decklists, so that those of us who are not douchebags don't have to do the writing.
www.facebook.com/groups/vtes.belgium/
It's a somewhat tricky issue.
I've run the Ropecon tournaments (60-90 players) with this same system for about a decade now: decklists required only from finalists. I've never heard a single word about anyone suspecting cheating, and all the finalists have always been solid players with solid decks. I'd be very, very surprised if any cheating had been going on with them. Now, it's always possible that someone has cheated over the years. On the other hand, a determined cheater can also do it with decklists, so I don't see it as a huge issue and enjoy the reduced hassle and lowed barrier of entry for new players this system provides. In this game, the table environments vary so tremendously that cheating is difficult to begin with; you may end up just making your deck worse .
So, it's worked for me, and I intend to continue doing it this way. I like being able to publish the decks of all the finalists, not just the winner, because I feel that seeing all 5 finalists gives a better picture of the general metagame.
That said, the points raised about it making large-scale analysis (by Extrala) impossible are of course valid. And also, it does make cheating a tiny bit more difficult (even though I personally don't see that as being an important concern).
"so that those of us who are not douchebags don't have to do the writing."
"he reduced hassle and lowed barrier of entry for new players this system provides"
I can't see the difficulty in writing a decklist nor see it as a "barrier". Sleeving is a bigger barrier for many players. But well... no Extrala stats this year because people are lazy.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Player registry's standing are screwed because Princes are too lazy (to submit Archons) etc etc.
I'm sure that the organizers will pass to Extrala the decklists of any energizer bunnies that hand their decklists to the organizers.
Finnish Politics!
> Lönkka wrote:
> I'm sure that the organizers will pass to Extrala the decklists of any energizer bunnies that hand their decklists to the organizers.
>
Suggestion: put a box at the registration desk where players can voluntarily drop their decklist if they happen to have them along? Can't hurt, at least. I know I'm taking decklists along in any case.
> Ankha wrote:
> I can't see the difficulty in writing a decklist nor see it as a "barrier". Sleeving is a bigger barrier for many players. But well... no Extrala stats this year because people are lazy.
>
I have never written a decklist. I take a print from my list on secretlibrary. If I make any last minute changes, it's easy to change. This also cover for my bad handwriting.
For analysis of tournaments, I would prefer a digital tool. Typing in decklists is a bit 1998.
www.facebook.com/groups/vtes.belgium/
> D-dennis wrote:
>
> I have never written a decklist. I take a print from my list on secretlibrary. If I make any last minute changes, it's easy to change. This also cover for my bad handwriting.
> For analysis of tournaments, I would prefer a digital tool. Typing in decklists is a bit 1998.
>
I have never come to a tournament with an informatic decklist... mostly because I was hesitating between several decks before the tournament and I have no printer at home
IC Organized play coordinator
Please contact me with any OP query using the mail in my profile
> Pascal wrote:
> But is there always a sauna?
>
Why, dear Sir, in civilized places of course there is!
Besides, technically every other place (than a sauna) actually could be termed being the behind of a sauna...
Finnish Politics!
> D-dennis wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > I can't see the difficulty in writing a decklist nor see it as a "barrier". Sleeving is a bigger barrier for many players. But well... no Extrala stats this year because people are lazy.
> >
> I have never written a decklist. I take a print from my list on secretlibrary. If I make any last minute changes, it's easy to change. This also cover for my bad handwriting.
> For analysis of tournaments, I would prefer a digital tool. Typing in decklists is a bit 1998.
>
True enough.
So, another suggestion: also provide an email address where we can send decklists (after tournament), in some specific format. Again, voluntary. Would reduce the need to manually type in stuff from printed deck lists.