If Tyler burns a blood to get +1 vote, does it last until the end of the turn?
All effects that I have in mind that say "Once each X, Y can do Z to get POW" last the whole duration of X.
Eg. Lydia, Grand Praetor: "Once each action, she can burn 1 blood for +1 stealth."
Explicit restriction: Zayyat, The Sandstorm: "Once each turn, he can burn 2 blood to get +2 stealth for the current action."
See also Aisha vs Andreas, The Bard of Crete (Andreas is correctly worded, not Aisha).
"Once each turn, Aisha may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept."
"Once each turn, Andreas may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept for the current action."
Name: Tyler
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Brujah
Group: 3
Capacity: 9
Discipline: dom for obt CEL POT PRE
Camarilla primogen: When Tyler diablerizes a vampire, she untaps and gains a blood from the blood bank. Once per turn, she may burn a blood to get +1 bleed or an additional vote.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
I would say that it last until the end of the turn even if IANPB
It would have been written until the end of the next action otherwise, no ?
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> Vlad wrote:
> I would say that it last until the end of the turn even if IANPB
> It would have been written until the end of the next action otherwise, no ?
>
On that assumption, it could also be permanent, no?
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> the1andonlime wrote:
>
> > Vlad wrote:
> > I would say that it last until the end of the turn even if IANPB
> > It would have been written until the end of the next action otherwise, no ?
> >
> On that assumption, it could also be permanent, no?
>
No, because "Once each turn" implies by default that the effect lasts for the duration of the turn.
Lydia, Grand Praetor doesn't get a permanent +1 stealth each time she uses her special, for instance.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
I'd say just for the duration of that one action the ability is used in.
Neither Conditioning nor Bewitching Oration state the duration either and yet we understand it only lasts until the end of the action.
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> Ankha wrote:
> If Tyler burns a blood to get +1 vote, does it last until the end of the turn?
>
Till the end of the action.
> Ankha wrote:
> All effects that I have in mind that say "Once each X, Y can do Z to get POW" last the whole duration of X.
>
> Eg. Lydia, Grand Praetor: "Once each action, she can burn 1 blood for +1 stealth."
>
> Explicit restriction: Zayyat, The Sandstorm: "Once each turn, he can burn 2 blood to get +2 stealth for the current action."
>
> See also Aisha vs Andreas, The Bard of Crete (Andreas is correctly worded, not Aisha).
>
> "Once each turn, Aisha may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept."
> "Once each turn, Andreas may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept for the current action."
>
> Name: Tyler
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Brujah
> Group: 3
> Capacity: 9
> Discipline: dom for obt CEL POT PRE
> Camarilla primogen: When Tyler diablerizes a vampire, she untaps and gains a blood from the blood bank. Once per turn, she may burn a blood to get +1 bleed or an additional vote.
>
Aisha also lasts till the end of the action.
On what is this clarification based?
Is "for the current action" redundant?
How do we know for how long an effect lasts? There's no such thing as "yet we understand something" as in my understanding, Tyler's effect could last the whole turn.
> jhattara wrote:
> I'd say just for the duration of that one action the ability is used in.
>
> Neither Conditioning nor Bewitching Oration state the duration either and yet we understand it only lasts until the end of the action.
>
These are "action modifiers". They modify the current action and therefore cannot extend beyond the action's duration (unless stated otherwise).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> On what is this clarification based?
>
Pretty sure: it has to work some way or another and card text isn't being overly helpful so let's pick one. Treat it as errata if you prefer.
(For the record, it's the one I'd have picked if the question came up in a tournament, while acknowledging the obvious hole.)
> Ankha wrote:
> How do we know for how long an effect lasts?
>
1) Card text.
2) Defaults - some are established by rules or rulings, such as how long an action modifier lasts or how long an optional maneuver hangs around for ([TOM 19960521]).
3) Asking questions, when there's a problem.
The nature of the abilities being “modification” or ”reaction” of an action suggest that it should oblige to the same rules as action modifiers/reactions… meaning it is confined to last only as long as the modified/reacted upon action.
Vincent's question is legitimate. Intuitively, Tyler's bonuses are only active during one action, but as written, the card does not necessarily function that way.
If some similar "once per turn" vampire abilities specify "during the current action" but Tyler's do not, that implies that Tyler's abilities are not limited to the current action.
I think that Vincent is angling for all such abilities to be updated so that they are written in the same way. If the description of two abilities say different things, it is not logical to think that they function the same way.
> AaronC wrote:
> If some similar "once per turn" vampire abilities specify "during the current action" but Tyler's do not, that implies that Tyler's abilities are not limited to the current action.
>
Or that card text is inconsistent and imperfect from time to time.