This one is about "or" phrases ... Examples:
>
> Society of Leopold
>
> Unique master.
> Put this card on a vampire. During his or her controller's untap phase, the vampire with this card either burns 1 blood or is burned (the controller's choice). The vampire with this card can move it to any other vampire as a +1 stealth action.
>
> Blade Clot
>
> Requires an anarch.
> Only usable when this anarch diablerizes a vampire with capacity 7 or more. Put this card in play with 3 clot counters. When an anarch you control inflicts hand or melee weapon damage, you may move a clot counter from this card to the opposing minion. A minion with a clot counter goes to torpor or is burned during his or her untap phase. If an older vampire rescues the vampire, burn the clot counter.
>
Question: Is the controlling methuselah allowed to choose the first part of the "or" phrase (e.g. burn 1 blood, go to torpor) even if the given vampire cannot "fulfil" it (since e.g. he has no blood, is already in torpor)?
Thanks in advance!
National Coordinator Germany nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de
One of the choises becomes ineligible, thus you are forced to choose another. On another way of thinking, your interpretation would be against the ephemeral "idea" of the card.
Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.
> Hakuron wrote:
> Question: Is the controlling methuselah allowed to choose the first part of the "or" phrase (e.g. burn 1 blood, go to torpor) even if the given vampire cannot "fulfil" it (since e.g. he has no blood, is already in torpor)?
>
Failing to burn a blood doesn't satisfy the requirement to "burn a blood". Think of it more like a cost if you prefer.
[LSJ 19981026]
>
> LSJ wrote:
> [Society of Leopold]
> Since, by failing to burn a blood, the condition remains unsatisfied,
> you'll still have to burn the vampire.
>
You can go to torpor if you're already there. (Unless you're an ally.)
[LSJ 20080612]
> LSJ wrote:
> > Can you "go to torpor" even though you are there already?
> Yes.
> ...
> > Its the last bit I am curious about. Does it mean that a minion must
> > go to torpor or if he is there already, he is burned?
> > Or is it merely to indicate that it will burn allies?
> The latter (or a vampire's controller can choose to burn him, if desired).
>
> kombainas wrote:
> One of the choises becomes ineligible
>
Incorrect. You can go to torpor when already there.
> kombainas wrote:
> On another way of thinking, your interpretation would be against the ephemeral "idea" of the card.
>
Please don't tell people how cards function based on your personal ephemeral "idea" of the card.
Yea the wording is kind of confusing... go to room or you'll be spanked.... but I'm all ready in my room... ok so you get spanked anyways... for being a smart mouth ... doesn't sound right
> delangen wrote:
> Yea the wording is kind of confusing... go to room or you'll be spanked.... but I'm all ready in my room... ok so you get spanked anyways... for being a smart mouth ... doesn't sound right
>
That analogy is true for Blade Clot (i.e. you will not be spanked if you are already in your room).
However, it does not hold true for Society of Leopold. That is closer to something like "pay up now or lose your finger...you don't have the money? ok, we'll take the finger"
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
興っ
www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
Thanks for your feedback, folks! B-)
Still, I do not understand, WHY there is a difference in "handling" between "Society of Leopold" and "Blade Clot".
National Coordinator Germany nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de
Because you must have a blood to be able to burn it, while you can send to torpor something which is in torpor. In essence, both work the same way, but you can alway send the vampire in torpor, while you may be unable to burn blood on him.
MtG have the same thing where you can tap a tapped permanent, while you cannot sacrifice a card who is have been sacrificied before.
> Hakuron wrote:
> Thanks for your feedback, folks! B-)
>
> Still, I do not understand, WHY there is a difference in "handling" between "Society of Leopold" and "Blade Clot".
>
Burn a blood. Do you have one fewer blood? No? Then you didn't burn a blood. Do the other thing.
Go to torpor. Are you in torpor? Yes? That's okay then.
Thanks again!
I do understand the "technical" difference in ruling between the two cards, but, still, I am not "happy" with the wording of "Blade Clot" ...
>
> Blade Clot
>
> Requires an anarch.
> Only usable when this anarch diablerizes a vampire with capacity 7 or more. Put this card in play with 3 clot counters. When an anarch you control inflicts hand or melee weapon damage, you may move a clot counter from this card to the opposing minion. A minion with a clot counter goes to torpor or is burned during his or her untap phase. If an older vampire rescues the vampire, burn the clot counter.
>
Why should there be an "or is burned during his or her untap phase" if it is not going to happen?
(Plus, why is there no "controller's choice"?)
EDIT: Ah, now: "Blade Clot" burns allies and (only) torporises vampires! Took some time to get that ...
National Coordinator Germany nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de
I didn't get it the first time either.
The other technicality is that you can burn the clotted vampire if you want ; it can be useful if you can influence another copy quickly, or if you have a soul gem of etrius, or some other shenanigans.
Am I really "allowed" to voluntarily burn a clotted vampire?
Unlike "Society of Leopold", "Blade Clot" misses the addition "controller's choice" ...
National Coordinator Germany nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de
> Hakuron wrote:
> Am I really "allowed" to voluntarily burn a clotted vampire?
>
Yes, you have a choice.
>
> Unlike "Society of Leopold", "Blade Clot" misses the addition "controller's choice" ...
>
Even if it's not always the case, the parenthesis indicate here that it's just a reminder text.
"During X, do Y or Z" is the pattern of a choice happening once during X.
If you can't do Y, you're bound to do Z.
If you can't do Z, you're bound to do Y.
If you can do neither, you're "stuck".
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Correct answers from jamesatzehphyr and Ankha.
In both cases (Society of Leopold, Blade Clot), cardtext reads "do X or do Y". You're free to do whichever you want, but you must do one of them. Burning blood from a vampire with no blood wouldn't meet the "this vampire burns 1 blood" text.