Hello there,
My question could be relatively simple or complicated as well, but in our metagame we have been discussing it with different results so far.
So, I'm playing a deck based on:
Name: Diabolic Lure
[HttB:C]
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Daimoinon/Auspex
[aus] Reduce a bleed against you by 1.
[dai] Requires an infernal vampire. Only usable whenthis vampire successfully blocks. Put 4 pact counters on the acting minion. If the number of pact counters equals or exceeds his or her capacity or cost, burn them to make him or her infernal.
[DAI] As [dai] above, and the acting minion's controller burns 1 pool.
and the simple question is, can I play this using Daimoinon after combat?
Most of the cases when I block and play it, the player who gets it seems to forget that it does not end the action and I have to remind them that combat follows.
I assume there's no possibility to play reaction cards during combat steps, but it wouldn't change anything in the given combat if the opposing vampire became infernal, let's say, after range has been determined.
But it happens that I draw it replacing combat cards, and I, of course, see no objection to play it after combat, as I see the combat is part of the action-blocking, as a result, so why couldn't I play it.
On the other hand, what happens with other cards that work almost the same way?
With Mental Maze, Peacemaker, or my other favorite, Undying Thirst it is written on the card: (play before combat, if any), and there's Cat's Guidance (play after combat, if any), which is obvious at which moment you have to play the reaction card.
But what happens with Diabolic Lure, or:
Name: Internal Recursion
[BL:U2, LoB:R]
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Temporis/Presence
Only usable by a vampire who successfully blocks.
This blocking vampire can end combat as a strike during the resulting combat. If he or she does so and the acting minion is an ally or a younger vampire, this blocking vampire untaps.
[tem] This blocking minion sets the range for the first round of the resulting combat. Skip the determine range step for that round.
[TEM] The acting minion doesn't untap during his or her next untap phase.
This, in my view, using Presence could be played during combat,or at superior Temporis after combat as well?
On top of these is there a difference in mechanics ifthe card's text says whenthis vampire blocks, or if this vampire blocks?
Thank you for your answers.
The question has came from your friendly neighborhood Pander Priscus,
djiik
Give a Priscus to the Panders!
> djiik wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> My question could be relatively simple or complicated as well, but in our metagame we have been discussing it with different results so far.
>
> So, I'm playing a deck based on:
>
> Name: Diabolic Lure
> [HttB:C]
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Discipline: Daimoinon/Auspex
> [aus] Reduce a bleed against you by 1.
> [dai] Requires an infernal vampire. Only usable whenthis vampire successfully blocks. Put 4 pact counters on the acting minion. If the number of pact counters equals or exceeds his or her capacity or cost, burn them to make him or her infernal.
> [DAI] As [dai] above, and the acting minion's controller burns 1 pool.
>
> and the simple question is, can I play this using Daimoinon after combat?
> Most of the cases when I block and play it, the player who gets it seems to forget that it does not end the action and I have to remind them that combat follows.
>
You cannot play it after combat. "When successfully blocks" refers to the pre-combat state.
See, for example, Voice of Madness:
>
> Name: Voice of Madness
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Cost: 1 blood
> Discipline: Dementation
> Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger vampire.
> [dem] Tap this reacting vampire. Combat does not occur.
> [DEM] As above, and the acting minion burns 1 blood or life.
>
> djiik wrote:
> I assume there's no possibility to play reaction cards during combat steps, but it wouldn't change anything in the given combat if the opposing vampire became infernal, let's say, after range has been determined.
>
With an extremely single exception (Legacy of Power), the only minion cards that are playable in combat are Combat cards. (Rulebook 6.4).
> djiik wrote:
> But it happens that I draw it replacing combat cards, and I, of course, see no objection to play it after combat, as I see the combat is part of the action-blocking, as a result, so why couldn't I play it.
>
Moot, but it could change a thing or two when Ysador blocks the action.
> djiik wrote:
> On the other hand, what happens with other cards that work almost the same way?
>
> With Mental Maze, Peacemaker, or my other favorite, Undying Thirst it is written on the card: (play before combat, if any), and there's Cat's Guidance (play after combat, if any), which is obvious at which moment you have to play the reaction card.
>
I agree some templating on these cards will help. I am working on it.
> djiik wrote:
> But what happens with Diabolic Lure, or:
> Name: Internal Recursion
> [BL:U2, LoB:R]
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Cost: 1 blood
> Discipline: Temporis/Presence
> Only usable by a vampire who successfully blocks.
> This blocking vampire can end combat as a strike during the resulting combat. If he or she does so and the acting minion is an ally or a younger vampire, this blocking vampire untaps.
> [tem] This blocking minion sets the range for the first round of the resulting combat. Skip the determine range step for that round.
> [TEM] The acting minion doesn't untap during his or her next untap phase.
>
> This, in my view, using Presence could be played during combat,or at superior Temporis after combat as well?
>
No. The Presence level grants you an ability to strike: end combat, just like Shroud of Absence grants you a similar ability.
>
> Name: Shroud of Absence
> [BL:R1, HttB:PKia]
> Cardtype: Action Modifier
> Discipline: Dominate & Obtenebration
> [dom][obt] +1 stealth.
> [DOM][OBT] As [dom][obt] above, and if this action is blocked, this vampire may end combat as a strike during the first round of the resulting combat.
>
At both Temporis levels, the card can only be played before combat.
> djiik wrote:
> On top of these is there a difference in mechanics ifthe card's text says whenthis vampire blocks, or if this vampire blocks?
>
> Thank you for your answers.
>
> The question has came from your friendly neighborhood Pander Priscus,
>
> djiik
>
Not really. "Only usable when this vampire blocks" is equivalent to "Only usable if this vampire blocks".