Assuming Mata Hari is still independent, can I play an Orun on her? Assuming I can, can she have more Orun on her than her capacity?
>
> Name: Mata Hari
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Ravnos
> Group: 4
> Capacity: 7
> Discipline: aus for qui CHI OBF
> Independent. Red List: Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.
>
> Name: Orun
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: trifle.
> Put this card on a Laibon. For non-Orun cards played by Methuselahs other than this Laibon's controller, this Laibon is considered to have 2 additional capacity. A Laibon gets an additional vote for every three Orun he or she has. If this Laibon successfully bleeds for more than 2 or successfully performs a action against a non-mortal minion, he or she burns one Orun. Burn this card if this Laibon has more Orun and Aye than his or her capacity.
>
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Lönkka wrote:
>
> > Haze wrote:
> > Orun does not require a Laibon
> >
> Erm, the card text starts with "Put this card on a Laibon."...
>
If it was "...that you control" then it might indirectly require a Laibon but probably not in a way that Mata Hari would care about. As it is, you can play Orun on someone else's Laibon even if you don't control one.
Due to the ruling about Transcendant Laibon (which I ask by mail by will re-ask publicly, but the idea is: you can use the Burn Option when you don't have a Laibon with 3 Ayes/Oruns).
So, "Put this card on a Laibon" seems to be a requirement to me.
The burning part seems to be an effect of the card in play, so unless Mata turns Laibon, it won't trigger.
I'll ask Scott for confirmations.
This card does not require a laibon to play, it must target a laibon. So the only parallel I can think of is:
Can you play Into the Fire or Out of the Pan on Mata Hari? If yes, then you can play Orun on Mata Hari.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> So the only parallel I can think of is:
>
> Can you play Into the Fire or Out of the Pan on Mata Hari? If yes, then you can play Orun on Mata Hari.
>
Different wording, so they may have different rulings.
Check this:
Transcendent Laibon
Cardtype: Master
Clan:
Burn Option
Unique master.
Put this card on a Laibon with at least three Aye and three Orun. During your untap phase, this Laibon gains 1 blood. Allies and younger vampires must burn 1 blood or life to attempt to block this Laibon or to target this Laibon with a action. Burn this card if this minion is not ready or has fewer than three Aye or three Orun.
Ask yourself what the conditions are to use the Burn Option.
Why would you want to play any of these cards on Mata Hari? Since the cards say "...this Laibon..." and MAta Hari isn't a Laibon except for the moment when you play the card on her, they suck.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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Neither Brutal Influence nor Exile specify "Liabon", they just require a minion with Orun to tap, so, if Orun can be played on her, Mata Hari could potentially play those cards without triggering the various "burn Orun" effects.
Of course, Mata Hari doesn't the disciplines required to play either card, so there are some problems with the plan.
--
National Coordinator
South Africa
> floppyzedolfin wrote:
> Ask yourself what the conditions are to use the Burn Option.
>
The rulebook gives permission to use Burn Option in one condition:
Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase.
> floppyzedolfin wrote:
> Mata Hari with 3 Oruns can play Unholy Radiance. Or Exile. Or Tons of Duskworks (if they're Ayes)
>
Dangit, Floppy. I was hoping the OP would give up some of his secrets. hehee
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
> Suoli wrote:
>
> > floppyzedolfin wrote:
> > Ask yourself what the conditions are to use the Burn Option.
> >
> The rulebook gives permission to use Burn Option in one condition:
> Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase.
>
Therefore, Orun has requirements (cards without requirements don't have a burn option). That was my point.
> floppyzedolfin wrote:
>
> > Suoli wrote:
> >
> > The rulebook gives permission to use Burn Option in one condition:
> > Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase.
> >
> Therefore, Orun has requirements (cards without requirements don't have a burn option). That was my point.
>
Orun doesn't have Burn Option. Either way, it seems that requiring a target from a sect counts as a sect requirement for Mata Hari.
whoops I guess I should've linked to the newsgroup post I looked up as evidence
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/def3d0b8d8e48ec5/727d8f0aa83fd824
Guru and Sociopath have a restriction of only playing on a sabbat vampire, but do not actually require a ready sabbat vampire to play.
"put this on a laibon" is a restriction for playing it, not a requirement. you do not need a ready laibon to play it, e.g. you can play it on your grandprey's laibon, you can play it on your one laibon in torpor.
cards like Art of Pain have both a [A] requirement (!toreador) and a restriction (!toreador). if and only if Mata Hari's ability is used for [A], then it can be used for
likewise, Mundane does not require a Laibon, and neither does Nosferatu Putrescence require a Nosferatu, so you can not play those on your Mata Hari no matter how much you may want to.
If you ever find yourself trying to build a deck that puts Orun on Mata Hari, you might as well play 12 copies of Pugfar and 60 Nosferatu Hosting instead. Your deck will have the same effect.
> Suoli wrote:
>
> > floppyzedolfin wrote:
> >
> > > Suoli wrote:
> > >
> > > The rulebook gives permission to use Burn Option in one condition:
> > > Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase.
> > >
> > Therefore, Orun has requirements (cards without requirements don't have a burn option). That was my point.
> >
> Orun doesn't have Burn Option. Either way, it seems that requiring a target from a sect counts as a sect requirement for Mata Hari.
>
Transcendent Laibon ("Put this card on a Laibon with 3 or more Orun...") has. And uses Orun's cardtext. I skipped this part in my deduction, above.
> floppyzedolfin wrote:
>
> > Suoli wrote:
> > Orun doesn't have Burn Option. Either way, it seems that requiring a target from a sect counts as a sect requirement for Mata Hari.
> >
> Transcendent Laibon ("Put this card on a Laibon with 3 or more Orun...") has. And uses Orun's cardtext. I skipped this part in my deduction, above.
>
Okay, I guess that makes sense.
LSJ's final answer is that Orun cannot be played on Mata Hari if she isn't a Laibon.
Now, due to the same word used in the Burn Option rule and in Mata's cardtext ("requirement"), some change about the Burn Option rule could be done.