Fun fun with master cards

Hey ! Apparently multiple master decks are so popular I thought I should suggest this : Name : Some name that fits the lore Type : Master Card Text : Put this card in play. You cannot play master cards. You may use a master phase action to add a counter to this card. Burn this card if the number of counters equals or exceeds the number of methuselahs in the game. Whenever a Methuselah plays a master card, he takes control of this card. So, with this card in play, the last Methuselah to play a master card cannot play further masters until enough MPAs are spent to get rid of the card. This may annoy decks that intend to play several master cards per turn even though they have the most ressources to get rid of it. If no multiple master decks are present, the effects may be random in the early game but may become interesting in a duel where you can deny your opponent to play masters as long as you choose not to play yours. I have no opinion on wether it addresses a pressing need in the game but I thought it was a fun design. I can't really determine if it is completely useless and too random or completely overpowered. Thoughts ?

Im not sure on tbis card, but i do like a card that limits masters. I thought aboit makimg a mazter oit of turn that said"this card cannot be targeted by sudden reversal or wash. Give this card to a methuslah who has played 2 or more non trifle masters this turn. While this card is in play, they cannot play more than one trifle and one refular master each turn. They may use a mastercphase action turn burn 6 pool and put an eroding counter on this card. Burn this card when it has 5 or more eroding counters on it. The methuslah with is card may burn 2 ready vampires they control of capacity 8 or highrt during thier discard phase to add 2 eroding counters to this card." So, yours is kinda similar. I just wanted less balance, more punishment.

If you want to limit master play, propose some interesting minion cards and not another master card with complicated mechanics attached. Vtes should be about minion interaction, not playing cards and cards that cancel cards. It's not mtg style: play spell, play counterspell, play counter spell that counter your counter, etc.

> FrançoisV wrote: > Name : Some name that fits the lore > Type : Master > Card Text : Put this card in play. > You cannot play master cards. > You may use a master phase action to add a counter to this card. Burn this card if the number of counters equals or exceeds the number of methuselahs in the game. > Whenever a Methuselah plays a master card, he takes control of this card. > It feels like it causes more annoyance for the casual user of Trifles than it does for dedicated MMPA. The guy who has a clutch of Life in the City and Wash in his deck is potentially much more frustrated than the MMPA user who has Anson and Parthenon at her disposal to fairly quickly blitz it from the table. I don't really think that a deck playing (LitC + Blood Doll) or (Wash + Ventrue HQ) or (Coven + Dreams) needs its card flow damaged. It also suffers from being fairly exclusively focused on the master issue problem, making it a very tough chioce. If I'm really worried about MMPA, how many am I putting in an 80 card deck to pull it early enough to upset it? 2? 3? 4? I'm using up quite a lot of resources to screw you up - so I'm possibly not winning, but making you lose. (And the benefit is gained by the guy on the table who doesn't include the cards but benefits from someone else screwing up the MMPA deck.) Possible options there include multi-functional cards (so you get some benefit from it) or maybe a crypt card (like Anarch Convert or Decoy ), because the cost of a crypt card slot is radically different for many decks than a library card.

Why not: Event: Fear of Antidiluvians Type: Inconnu Every master card played after the first during each methuselah master phase cost an additional pool. This way you can serious hunt some MPA decks, while others could pay the pool if they want (or can). I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

> Charles_Bronson wrote: > Why not: > > Event: Fear of Antidiluvians > Type: Inconnu > Every master card played after the first during each methuselah master phase cost an additional pool. > > This way you can serious hunt some MPA decks, while others could pay the pool if they want (or can). > Because it cripples cards such as Life in the City. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > Charles_Bronson wrote: > > Why not: > > > > Event: Fear of Antidiluvians > > Type: Inconnu > > Every master card played after the first during each methuselah master phase cost an additional pool. > > > > This way you can serious hunt some MPA decks, while others could pay the pool if they want (or can). > > > Because it cripples cards such as Life in the City. > And is it so big an issue? Event tend to generally have an impact on the game. Scourge of the enochian criple embrace-like and every small vamp. Unmasking cripple KRC. And so on... On the other hand, I dislike cards speacking of "first MPA". IMO it tends to add confusion to the game "aren't we suppose to play only one anyway?" In this regard, I would prefer a card with a more heavy cost (require gehena(s) and/or do not replace until...) and a more generic effect "master cards cost an additional pool." But actually I like better the first proposal but I will change the "you can't play master card" with "you can't use MPA"

> Timo wrote: > And is it so big an issue? > yes, because the one most affected use a non-overpowered card which is both simple and useful. And a lot of other niche use trifle master, like Hand Contract for example.

> Timo wrote: > And is it so big an issue? > Yes. Taking the legs out from under perfectly decent, not-overpowered cards is pretty significant collateral damage. Deciding that Dominate bleed was too powerful and screwing around with every source of increased bleed in the game would be pretty bad, too. The deck that was hoping to play Life in the City for some blood gain on some turns, and also play normal master cards too, isn't causing a problem for the game. But the card sticks around in the game for potentially a long time (2, 3, 4, 5 cycles round the table), assuming that that deck spends MPAs to get rid of it - and is having trouble playing any master cards at all. (Maybe it can get help from another player, maybe not.) The MMPA deck with, say, Anson + Parthenon can throw three MPAs at it on turn one (which might be enough), and can get the fourth and fifth counters next turn if necessary. So the MMPA deck basically takes on master phase off. If careful/a little lucky, you can also play, say, Villein as a Trifle, get the card (because someone else already has it), then throw your three MPAs at it. > Timo wrote: > On the other hand, I dislike cards speacking of "first MPA". IMO it tends to add confusion to the game "aren't we suppose to play only one anyway?" > Make the text more newbie friendly then: "If you have or gain any additional master phase actions, blah blah blah."

What if you'd take control of the card only if when you play non-trifle master cards ? Though I wouldn't have mind the card hindering the use of good trifles like Villein, Vessel even though it would hose Lifes and my beloved Aye deck. I also would combo strongly with Wash, wouldn't it ? Or allow any Methuselah to use MPA to add counters on the card ? Which would give the option to ask for cross table help (if one of your allies has a spare MPA and you think the card will affect your master cards flow). Or set the amount of counters to burn the card to 3 ?

Lets get back to playing vtes on this whole issue. Severing invisable strings Action +1 stealth d action. Chose a location or minion in play that allows a methuselah more than one master phase action. Put this card or that minion or location. No additional master phases can be gained due to the effects of any minion or location with this card on it. At the end of this action, the acting minion untaps (sucessful or not). Free action, to balance the fact that its an action at all. Also narrow as hell compared to seeds of corruption, mind of a child, or other minion screws.

I think such a card is too much "silver-bulletish" for my tastes. I'd prefer a design that would have a general effect that would incidentally harm multiple MPA, hence my original suggestion.

The problem of your solution is that MMPA decks are the best equiped to get rid of it. While aving to do actions with vampire/minion to generate "burn counter" will add minion interactiond which is I belive the intent in harming MMPA decks.

> Timo wrote: > The problem of your solution is that MMPA decks are the best equiped to get rid of it. > > While aving to do actions with vampire/minion to generate "burn counter" will add minion interactiond which is I belive the intent in harming MMPA decks. > Well that was quite intended actually. Even if I find MMPA decks annoying, they are decks on their own rights, and designing cards that would completely prevent them to play without being able to do anything about it seems... cruel. MMPA are the best equipped to get rid of it but would have to use all their MPAs for a turn or two to do so, which already very harmful especially if most of your game is master cards. Non MMPA decks won't care about the card much until the game reaches a 2-3 players situation, where it is easier to get rid of it. Or so I hope.