When I use Ericyes Fragments, Ashur Tablets, etc, do I have the obligation to show others methuselahs the cards Im taking and whats happening to them?
Some people I know are saying that you can at most LOOK at the ash heap before and after the action and TRY TO GUESS what happened. So it would be possible to use Ericyes and do not show the card taken to it. Other methuselahs could only be guessing.
but I disagree. Whats the correct answer then? And why?
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
When you use those effects, you must announce which card(s) you are moving. Similar to announcing an action:
> Rulebook wrote:
> All details of the action are declared when the action is announced, including the target(s), the cost, the effects, etc. Any card required for the action is played (face up) at this time. Tap the acting minion (only ready untapped minions can take actions).
>
> EXCEPTION: Any decisions to be made for a referendum are not declared until the action succeeds (see The Political Action, sec. 6.3.1).
>
groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/erciyes$20fragment$20announce/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/7fMPCYIPrag/mjZoY0oGz0QJ
Money quote:
>
> LSJ wrote:
> That's one reason for the way things are as they are, in fact. Since the ash
> heap is known, there's no reason to turn the card play into a 15-minute
> "memorize this set and then look away while I make a change and then identify
> the changes" exerecize for each of the other players.
>
> The other reason, as stated, is that effects are announced.
>
Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
> Charles_Bronson wrote:
> Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".
>
Even the basic Magic rulebook says "Cards in your graveyard are always face up and anyone can look at them at any time."
If we have VTES players that are going to power game, I suppose we should redo the rulebook so that they aren't able to do so.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
> Charles_Bronson wrote:
> Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".
>
Fully declaring cards is already in the rulebook.
1.6.1.1: "The player completely declares the effect of the card when it is played."
In general, other effects follow the same rules as playing cards (except where that obviously can't work, like you don't put Wynn in limbo when using his built-in action) - they're both just sources of an effect. It wouldn't hurt to make that clearer, but dozens of rulings have been issued confirming this over the years.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Charles_Bronson wrote:
> > Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".
> >
> Fully declaring cards is already in the rulebook.
>
> 1.6.1.1: "The player completely declares the effect of the card when it is played."
>
> In general, other effects follow the same rules as playing cards (except where that obviously can't work, like you don't put Wynn in limbo when using his built-in action) - they're both just sources of an effect. It wouldn't hurt to make that clearer, but dozens of rulings have been issued confirming this over the years.
>
Excellent, that was I looking for. Thank you.
But in fact there are still margin for error - and this should be updated. Erciyes fragments can be used in the table - not just played from your hand.
There are people who would argue what is not in the rulebook, in the FAQ/CLARIFICATIONS/ERRATA, and not written in the card should'nt be enforced.
I still have to found a Erciyes Fragment LSJ or pascal specific ruling. We do lack an official answer in this specific topic.
check:
www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/48007-wider-view-or-qare-out-of-game-cards-public-knowledgeq#48073
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
> Charles_Bronson wrote:
> There are people who would argue what is not in the rulebook, in the FAQ/CLARIFICATIONS/ERRATA, and not written in the card should'nt be enforced.
>
Those people are clearly morons. A new question comes up? Oops, the answer isn't written anywhere yet because the question has never come up before, so the answer is unenforcable.
Please, don't encourage morons to be morons.
> Charles_Bronson wrote:
> I still have to found a Erciyes Fragment LSJ or pascal specific ruling. We do lack an official answer in this specific topic.
>
It wouldn't be enforcable, since it's not in the list of places you have enumerated.
But also, choosing cards in your ash heap has already been explained, as provided already. So you have your answer.
If an answer to the orignal question was still needed, it would be "Yes, the name of card you move from the ash heap to Erciyes Fragments is public information when the card is moved."
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> 1.6.1.1: "The player completely declares the effect of the card when it is played."
>
And, although a bit off topic but important and often ignored, you have to announce a card fully BEFORE replacing it. And yes that is a big difference more often than not.
Baron of Frankfurt
Thanks very much for the answer.
And yeah, I get REALLY annoyed by people who play govern, replace and then choose the action.
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
Make the player put the drawn card back onto their library, then reshuffle, then fully declare the action, then replace.
Don't get mad, get even.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017