If an untapped vampire successfully blocks an action and I play Claiming the Body, is the blocker tapped?
Claiming the Body
Action Modifier, 1 blood, Sanguinus
Requires a ready untapped Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked.
Cancel the combat and end the action. (Do not untap the blocking minion.)
As above, and untap the acting Blood Brother.
Jussi Hattara
Webmaster Extraordinaire
Finnish Politics!
6.2:
If a block attempt is successful, then the blocking minion taps and enters combat with the acting minion.
Even though there is a timing window that allows Claiming The Body, et.al., to be played, there is no rule (or card text) that allows a blocking minion not to be forced to follow the rule in 6.2 that says a tapping minion must block when such a card is played.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
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Yes, the blocker is tapped, there is no combat, and your acting blood brother untaps (if you played at superior).
Even if the blocker untaps before block, he still taps trying to block, and they enter combat.
Tapping is part of the normal resolution for the blocker's successful block.
When you as the acting player declare that the block is successful and together acting and blocking minion move into resolution, the blocker then continues with the costs of resolution. To do otherwise would mean the action is not in resolution and thus Claim the Body is not playable at that window, etc.
That's also reminder text on Claim the Body. Unless stated otherwise by Golden Rule of card text, regular procedures are followed. This is why Sowing Dissension allows the acting anarch to cancel combat and untap, but ends up leaving the non-titled vampire successful blocker tapped.
Sowing Dissension
Requires a ready anarch.
Each other Methuselah taps an untapped ready younger vampire he or she controls. If this action is blocked by a non-titled vampire, the acting anarch can burn 1 blood to cancel combat and untap.
Also, though AriusZet is correct in the thought, I would reword it thus for clarity. You don't tap for "trying to block" (barring the joys of resolving Faceless Night later); you tap for resolving a successful block:
"Even in the minion attempting to block manages to untap before action resolution, upon a successful block it must still resolve the normal requirements for blocking resolution. Therefore the successful blocking minion must tap and then enter combat."
> Azel wrote:
> Also, though AriusZet is correct in the thought, I would reword it thus for clarity. You don't tap for "trying to block" (barring the joys of resolving Faceless Night later); you tap for resolving a successful block:
>
> "Even in the minion attempting to block manages to untap before action resolution, upon a successful block it must still resolve the normal requirements for blocking resolution. Therefore the successful blocking minion must tap and then enter combat."
>
Yes,thank you; and you can only play Claiming the body when the block is succesful (therefor the blocker is tapped) and the combat is cancelled (Started, but ended before even determining range)
Pascal:
Can you confirm that when an action modifier cancels combat that the combat was "started"?
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
> KevinM wrote:
> Pascal:
> Can you confirm that when an action modifier cancels combat that the combat was "started"?
>
in my interpretation the combat is about to happen, but it's cancelled (during the beginning of the combat itself). so we have a succesful block, and a combat. In this case, the blocker can use psyche, to start an other combat. after the combat is cancelled by Claiming the body.
other scenario: If the blocker uses something like "mental maze"
(Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or a younger vampire play before combat, if any
End the action (with no combat). If this blocking minion is a Follower of Set, this card costs 1 less blood.
As above, and do not tap this blocking vampire. )
It happens AFTER the block is succesful, and BEFORE combat. in this case neither the opposing vampires can use psyche (since there is no combat) and the blood brother cannot use Claiming the Body, becouse there is no combat to cancel.
in other words they must be in combat to cancel combat.
> KevinM wrote:
> Pascal:
>
> Can you confirm that when an action modifier cancels combat that the combat was "started"?
>
A cancelled combat has never started.
Similarily, a cancelled action has never started.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> AriusZet wrote:
>
> > KevinM wrote:
> > Pascal:
> > Can you confirm that when an action modifier cancels combat that the combat was "started"?
> >
> in my interpretation the combat is about to happen, but it's cancelled (during the beginning of the combat itself). so we have a succesful block, and a combat.
>
Combat "is about to happen", should happen, but in fact it's cancelled, so there's no combat.
If the combat starts, it means it hasn't been cancelled.
Cancelling a combat is different from ending a combat before range is determined (such as with Alpha Glint).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > AriusZet wrote:
> > If the combat starts, it means it hasn't been cancelled.
> > Cancelling a combat is different from ending a combat before range is determined (such as with Alpha Glint).
> >
> just to have me understand correctly: A "cancelled" combat like this can be re-started by psyche (tele tracking..) ?
>
> or it's the same (f.e.) as with mental maze?
>
Psyche! is usable at the end of the round, and if the combat is cancelled, there are no rounds to begin with. Same applies to other combat cards, as, err, they can be used only IN combat.
Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.
> KevinM wrote:
> Can you confirm that when an action modifier cancels combat that the combat was "started"?
>
Action modifiers and reactions are played before combat starts (or more generally, outside combat). If combat has started, you can't play it. [6.4]
The only known exception is Legacy of Power, because it ends combat (not cancels it). LSJ forgot to correct it in the Tenth Anniversary Tin, which will upset both people who've ever considered playing it.
> Ankha wrote:
> A cancelled combat has never started.
> Similarily, a cancelled action has never started.
>
Cancelling an action card prevents the action from starting.
But, for example, Tangle Atropos' Hand cancels an action that is already in progress:
Only usable when a minion is attempting to block.
Cancel the action and untap the acting minion. (The blocking minion is not tapped.)
It doesn't mean the action was never started. It's closer to "prematurely terminated".
[LSJ 20070709]
> LSJ wrote:
> Jeff Kuta wrote:
> > On Jul 8, 11:57 pm, Ector <> wrote:
> >> 1). I was thinking that canceling an action means that the action was
> >> "never performed",
> No. It means something more like canceling a check -- the check was still
> written. Canceling an action menas the action is prematurely terminated.
>
However, since it terminates before resolution, the 'NRA' taint isn't applied. Similarly, if you Mask an action off a minion, the first minion isn't hit by the NRA taint - that happens at resolution (successful or otherwise), not announcement/attempt.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > A cancelled combat has never started.
> > Similarily, a cancelled action has never started.
> >
> Cancelling an action card prevents the action from starting.
>
Sure. I was thinking about action cards cancelled "as it is played".
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> jhattara wrote:
> If an untapped vampire successfully blocks an action and I play Claiming the Body, is the blocker tapped?
>
> Claiming the Body
> Action Modifier, 1 blood, Sanguinus
> Requires a ready untapped Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked.
> Cancel the combat and end the action. (Do not untap the blocking minion.)
> As above, and untap the acting Blood Brother.
>
Yes, the blocker is tapped if he taps when successfully blocking.
(Some minions don't tap when successfully blocking, such as a 5-cap vampire with Atonement blocking a 3-cap)
And am I correct that cards like Cats' Guidance can't be played after Claiming the Body as there is no action left to react to?
Jussi Hattara
Webmaster Extraordinaire
Finnish Politics!
> jhattara wrote:
> And am I correct that cards like Cats' Guidance can't be played after Claiming the Body as there is no action left to react to?
>
Correct. Once the action is ended, action modifiers or reaction cards can no longer be played. This includes Freak Drive (when playing base Claiming the Body) or Cats' Guidance.
Name: Cats' Guidance
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Animalism
[ani] Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire.
[ANI] +1 intercept.
Name: Freak Drive
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Fortitude
[for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving the action). This vampire untaps.
[FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after combat, if any).
> Pascal wrote:
> Correct. Once the action is ended, action modifiers or reaction cards can no longer be played. This includes Freak Drive (when playing base Claiming the Body) or Cats' Guidance.
>
Can I cross the streams and bring up my post in another thread where LSJ appeared to retreat from that statement when the card triggers off the action ending?
Thus here, I think it's supportable that Freak Drive superior is playable (triggering text, action was blocked), but Cats' Guidance isn't.
Claming the Body + Freak Drive is similar to Mirror Walk + Freak Drive:
www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/46066-does-catatonic-fear--target-vitals-work?limit=10&start=30#47679
> elchevtes wrote:
> Who play and pay the Claiming the Body?
>
Name: Claiming the Body
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Sanguinus
Requires a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked.
[san] Cancel the combat and end the action. (Do not unlock the blocking minion.)
[SAN] As above, and unlock the acting Blood Brother.
The requirement is "Requires a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked." This means it has to be played by that other, ready unlocked Blood Brother.
In just the same way, a card that says "Requires a Prince" has to be played by the Prince. It doesn't mean you can play it with any vampire, if you just happen to have a Prince somewhere amongst your controlled vampires.
> Rulebook, wrote:
> Only a minion who meets the requirements given on a minion card can play it, while only a Methuselah who controls a ready minion who meets the requirements of a master card can play it.
>
Claiming the Body is a minion card, so has to be played by the minion who meets the requirements.
This seemingly contradicts the following rule:
> Rulebook, wrote:
> Only the acting minion can play action modifiers, while only other Methuselahs' ready unlocked minions can play reaction cards.
>
while the card itself does not follow the usual wording cards have, that are being played by a different minion like Cloak the Gathering. Those explicitly state "Only usable by a minion other than the acting minion." Therefore I can see where the confusion comes from. Still, I think you're right james.
Prince of Bonn, Germany
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > elchevtes wrote:
> > Who play and pay the Claiming the Body?
> >
> Name: Claiming the Body
> Cardtype: Action Modifier
> Cost: 1 blood
> Discipline: Sanguinus
> Requires a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked.
> [san] Cancel the combat and end the action. (Do not unlock the blocking minion.)
> [SAN] As above, and unlock the acting Blood Brother.
>
> The requirement is "Requires a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked." This means it has to be played by that other, ready unlocked Blood Brother.
>
> In just the same way, a card that says "Requires a Prince" has to be played by the Prince. It doesn't mean you can play it with any vampire, if you just happen to have a Prince somewhere amongst your controlled vampires.
>
> > Rulebook, wrote:
> > Only a minion who meets the requirements given on a minion card can play it, while only a Methuselah who controls a ready minion who meets the requirements of a master card can play it.
> >
> Claiming the Body is a minion card, so has to be played by the minion who meets the requirements.
>
Correct.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director