[Submission] Crossbow

From an idea on JOL. Name: Crossbow Cardtype: Equipment Cost: 3 pool Weapon. Strike: 2R, with an optional maneuver. Alternatively, strike ranged: play a Wooden Stake from your hand and use its strike as if it were ranged at +1 damage (the Wooden Stake is burned if this strike is dodged). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > (the Wooden Stake is burned if this strike is dodged). > That should rather be: burn the stake after strike resolution if it is not on the opposing minion. There is no reason for the stake strike to be strength-based either, it should be a fixed 2R. Apart from that, I am afraid you aimed too big: too expensive, and ranged aggravated + permanent maneuver is too strong. I would rather have: -a pool cost of 2. -no maneuver. -use only once per combat.

Note that the optional "strike with wooden stake" does not provide maneuver, by design I suppose. I find it a bit strange that a crossbow is as dangerous as a .44 magnum. I am not sure the additional setup is worth it compared to a flamethrower. Do you have an idea of what game need it would fill ? I see it mainly as a send to torpor weapon for obfuscate deck, which seem very narrow and already fulfilled, but maybe you had another idea in mind.

> Ohlmann wrote: > Note that the optional "strike with wooden stake" does not provide maneuver, by design I suppose. > > I find it a bit strange that a crossbow is as dangerous as a .44 magnum. > Actually, modern crossbows are far scarier, and easily pierce kevlar vests that magnum cannot.

> Pendargon wrote: > Actually, modern crossbows are far scarier, and easily pierce kevlar vests that magnum cannot. > Yes, as far as I know, they may pierce kevlar (depending on what type of vest I suppose, since .44 magnum also pierce a lot of kevlar vest), but that don't mean they are scarier, because of firerate concern, and the fact that an arrow wound in a modern hospital is significantly less deadly than a bullet wound. It may change with arrow crafted for military (or anti-vampire !) use, but then you may have range, penetration and/or precision problem arising. And as far as the RPG go, in V20, crossbow do a bit less damage per hit than .44 magnum, still don't do lethal damage, and take 5 actions to reload. In other word, it suck big time except for stacking. That being said, I think it's bad to let real world consideration in the way of flavor, and having low-powered weapon (in the mind of reader) like a crossbow doing the same as an high-powered one feel pretty strange. Of course, it's a bit off-topic, since .44 magnum does absurd damage compared to what lore and the RPG say (partly because of the aforementioned rule of cool, partly to be able to add firearm that serve a purpose). It's reasonable, while strange, to let the regular strike at 2R, but I am not sure who exactly will play this instead of a cheaper .44 magnum or a more reliable flamethrower.

There is already a Spike-Thrower . The real reason we want a crossbow is because of Daryl Dixon . I think it would be more appropriate for: Crossbow 2 1R damage. If this weapon deals more than one damage in a strike, the opposing vampire is tapped and cannot act or react until the end of the current turn. It would require the use of lucky blow or target:vitals to "stake" a vampire. And the effect of staking in this case is different than Stake-thrower or Wooden Stake. Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.

> The real reason we want a crossbow is because of Daryl Dixon. > Booooo. Who's next? Armor of Lady GaGa ? Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

I think only usable at long range sounds more appropriate

Then it will be one more wallpaper, like the spike thrower.

On the topic of real world medicine and weapons, the hydrostatic shock of a 357 makes it as or morelikely to stop a human with one shot the the trunk, compared with a 44. Same goes for any living being with the same body composition of mostly water. A crossbow should be once each combat, since a sawed off is easier to load. Also, 1r, cost 2 only usable at range is more accurate. So we have spikethrowrr. Im all about stakes sucking less, and i like bows, but this doesnt seem needed.

I agree...I like the idea of a ranged stake/rowan ring like application...with appropriate cost of course...is crossbow appropriate? Wasn'T there a movie or book or something with someone who put holy water vials on the tips of crossbows...that sounds fun?

> delangen wrote: > I agree...I like the idea of a ranged stake/rowan ring like application...with appropriate cost of course...is crossbow appropriate? Wasn'T there a movie or book or something with someone who put holy water vials on the tips of crossbows...that sounds fun? > Holy water doesnt do much to vamps but get them wet. In vampire the mazquerade redemption, a bottle of holy water was a grenade type weapon that did like 50 faith damage, which made the one vamp you fight as a human intat game frenzy, so was good. Other than that, holy water matters nil in the world of darkness. Now, true faith does matter, is rare, and can do things like keep vampires away (anatole keeps all kindred but one nosferatu out of a church for like a month, then wipes that guys memory with dominate) and there was a knightly order that was faith based and had rites to do things like take lethal damage instead of agg from sunlight, but the WoD was pretty solid on only real faith and powerful belief mattering, and those were stupid rare. So, im all about fun and playable ranged weapons, but im not sure on the delivery of this one. Maybe sending to torpor if it does more than 1r damage, and otherwise tapping the vampire. But i dont think its out of line to require aim cards to make the vamp hit dirt. In vampire the masquerade, it takes alot of skill or luck to stake with a crossbow, and alot of oomph to stake a vamp . Sticking to the source, a spikethrower usable once each combat that cannot be equipped with concealed weapon, that torps if it hits for more than one, or even makes gou roll a die or flip a coin to gain that effect, is balanced. To argue for its inclusion, we are missing some weapons listed in every vtm cors book. We have small and large revolvers and handguns ( saturday night special, 44 mag, baretta 9mm and desert eagle) and we have leather jacket, flak jacket, kevlar vest, brass knuckles, baseball bat, sword, high powered frifle(mark IV) and now 4 machine guns ( assault rifle and AK for large, smg and foldable for small). But we are missing full riot gear/tailored armor, padded clothing, an axe, and crossbow. I understand from a balance point nog doing a semi auto shotgun, and kind of the riotgear, but a non crappy lt handgun (a glock... i even designed one awhile ago...) and some other stuff is reasonable to see made.

> Ankha wrote: > From an idea on JOL. > > Name: Crossbow > Cardtype: Equipment > Cost: 3 pool > Weapon. > Strike: 2R, with an optional maneuver. Alternatively, strike ranged: play a Wooden Stake from your hand and use its strike as if it were ranged at +1 damage (the Wooden Stake is burned if this strike is dodged). > This just feels really expensive for a card that requires other cards to drive its main use. And in the aggravated damage area, I could bring out an Ivory Bow and an Improvised Flamethrower for this much. Also, 3 pool rules out Concealed Weapon (although that obviously also rules out those agg damage weapons). I tried making something cheaper that maybe required the Wooden Stake as ammo, but that seemed ick. Maybe 1R+maneuver, 2 pool, special similar to before for a flat 2 damage, with "Only usable once per round", to reflect the need to reload? I'm not sure I'd be wild about a weapon that could go damage, damage, agg damage - guns require DBR for that, at least. So: Name: Crossbow Cardtype: Equipment Cost: 2 pool Weapon. Strike: 1R, with an optional maneuver. Alternatively, strike ranged: play a Wooden Stake from your hand and use its strike as if it were for 2R damage (the Wooden Stake is burned if this strike is dodged). Crossbow is only usable once per round. I'm not sure it'd make a super-compelling focus for a deck's combat package, but it feels more like I might play it. At 3 pool+a card, I could be doing something like Kpist plus an Ammo or Target card. Even at 2 pool, does .44 Magnum + Target [Something] seem like a more attractive option? If it's only usable once per round, can we say 2R for the normal strike, and 'wallpaper' .44 Magnum for people who don't want additional strikes at all? Edit to add: Oh, there's a thought. As a weapon with two strikes, is the optional maneuver usable with just the one, or both? Not sure.

Depends on the wording. Tinglestripe has an optional manuever for tbe 1r but not the 2r. Other cards would be similar.

Crossbow Equipment 1 pool Weapon. This weapon can be used by a vampire with Anachronism. Strike: 2R damage and put this weapon out of play for the remainder of combat. If this weapon successfully deals more than 1 damage on a vampire, the opposing minion cannot untap until after your next untap phase. Out of play = 5 round reload 2R damage = ability to cause damage even through armour and dangerous to vampires Anti-untap clause = minor version of Wooden Stake ability. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Crossbow > Equipment > 1 pool > Weapon. > This weapon can be used by a vampire with Anachronism. > Strike: 2R damage and put this weapon out of play for the remainder of combat. If this weapon successfully deals more than 1 damage on a vampire, the opposing minion cannot untap until after your next untap phase. > > Out of play = 5 round reload > 2R damage = ability to cause damage even through armour and dangerous to vampires > Anti-untap clause = minor version of Wooden Stake ability. > Oooh, how about: Crossbow 2 This weapon can be used by a vampire with Anachronism. Tap this weapon to strike for 2 ranged damage with first strike with an optional maneuver. If this weapon successfully deals more than 1 damage on a vampire, the opposing minion cannot untap until after it's next untap phase. This minion may untap this card as a strike. This leads to: Hand-Crossbow 1 This weapon may be used by a vampire with Anachonism. Tap this weapon to deal 1 ranged damage as a strike. A minion may tap a second Hand-Crossbow in his or her possession for an additional strike: 1R damage. A minion equipping with this weapon during combat may equip with a second one (pay cost as normal.) I thought a tap mechanic might be a neat idea for the "reload" option. EDIT: Ram-Bow ( silly hollywood movie reference ) 1 This weapon can be used by a vampire with Anachronism. Weapon. Only usable at long range. Strike: 2R damage, not preventable by equipment. You may play ammo cards as if this were a gun. (Don't ask me how Dragons Breath Rounds will burn a bow, or how you would get an additional strike with "caseless arrows.") Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.

Crossbow 2 This weapon can be used by a vampire with Anachronism. Strike 2R or strike 1R with an optional maneuver. If you strike with this weapon, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face down (out of play) until your next untap phase. During your untap phase you can place a wooden stake from your hand or ash heap on this equipment to be used as ammo. In that case this weapon deals one additional damage.

> wesile wrote: > This weapon can be used by a vampire with Anachronism. > Quite frankly, I think it's a waste of space. Gameplay-wise, it will work once each blue moon. History-wise, both are "recent" weapon in that bow are about as old as mankind while crossbow and hand cannon came way later. Lore-wise, they are vampire sensible to anachronism created after firearms already, while other simply never could have seen such a device before waking up in modern era, like Ur-Shulgi.

What I don't exactly like, that the submissions are just likely oped. The last one is hands down Desert Eagle, which is not the best card there, but I'd rather have an eratta to make Desert Eagle more attractive, than making up a new card for that same purpose. I'd prefer something like wesile suggestion, as it is worse than .44 without the stakes, yet better with them. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

Hehe: Arrow-gun from the movie "Hard Target" Airrow Stealth 2 Weapon (not a gun!) 2R damage. Only usable at long range. If the bearer blocks an action, he or she may, before range is determined, set the range for the first round of the resulting combat to long; if he or she does so, skip the determine range step that round, and the bearer's initial strike that round must be with this weapon. If any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on an opposing vampire, that vampire does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. (okay, it's a Sniper-Rifle + Spike-thrower, nothing to see here, move along!) Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.

How do you justify setting the range? Sniper Rifle can at least hit from miles away, however even then bullet is heavily affected by gravity, wind and supermassive black holes. I believe the weapon proposed would be more balanced if it lost setting range ability with removing range limit to compensate for. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.