I was playing the Spiridonas turbo soul gem deck... he was pentex subverted and had the society of leopold on him, he was also equipped with the soul gem and had the fortitude master, making him 11cap....(also a side note I kept an extra spiirdonas in the uncontrolled region with 5 blood just in case)
My prey called a successfull banishment on him returning him to uncontrolled with 3 blood. So just to clarify the sequence of events: When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
Furthermore next untap I can burn him with the society of leopold drawing a new Spiridonas free of the pentex and society allthough with no fortitude but he still have the soul gem, right?
Thank you kindly
> delangen wrote:
> I was playing the Spiridonas turbo soul gem deck... he was pentex subverted and had the society of leopold on him, he was also equipped with the soul gem and had the fortitude master, making him 11cap....(also a side note I kept an extra spiirdonas in the uncontrolled region with 5 blood just in case)
>
> My prey called a successfull banishment on him returning him to uncontrolled with 3 blood. So just to clarify the sequence of events: When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
>
Yes.
EDIT Maybe I didn't get that "new" word.
If you bring out a copy with no Pentex on him, then no Pentex is moved.
If you bring out a copy with a Pentex, a Society of Leopold, a Soul Gem, etc. on him, these cards are moved (merely faced up, but they just stay on him).
EDIT: Also, remember, Banishment can only be called on a younger vampire. Spiridonas with a Fortitude discipline being an 11-cap, it would require a 12+ cap calling the Banishment to be able to choose Spiridonas as the target (since Final Nights).
>
> Name: Banishment
> Cardtype: Political Action
> Choose a younger ready vampire. Successful referendum means that the chosen vampire is moved to the uncontrolled region (breaking any temporary control effects). The vampire is uncontrolled. Any cards and counters on that vampire stay with him or her (but they are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled).
>
> delangen wrote:
> Furthermore next untap I can burn him with the society of leopold drawing a new Spiridonas free of the pentex and society allthough with no fortitude but he still have the soul gem, right?
>
> Thank you kindly
>
> Name: Society of Leopold
> Cardtype: Master
> Unique master.
> Put this card on a vampire. During his or her controller's untap phase, the vampire with this card either burns 1 blood or is burned (the controller's choice). The vampire with this card can move it to any other vampire as a +1 stealth action.
>
Sure, you can choose to let Spiridonas + Fortitude + Soul Gem (+Pentex, +whatever he might also have) burn to the Society of Leopold during your untap phase.
If the next crypt card is a Spiridonas, then he is moved to the ready region, with blood from the blood bank to match his capacity, and he gets the Soul Gem of Etrius.
> Name: Soul Gem of Etrius
> Cardtype: Equipment
> Unique equipment.
> If this vampire is burned, draw the top card from your crypt. If it is younger, put the Soul Gem on him or her and move him or her to your ready region with blood from the blood bank equal to his or her capacity; otherwise, move that card to your uncontrolled region (and burn the Soul Gem). If bearer is diablerized, the diablerizing vampire cannot take the Soul Gem.
>
> Pascal wrote:
>
> > delangen wrote:
> > When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
> >
> Yes.
>
And how about Mind Rape, for another note? Does it transfer as well?
Cool, I didn't know that.
So, if there's Anson with Fame in play, and his controller wanted to get a new one without Fame, he couldn't do that through Banishment.
Scenario:
Anson in play with Fame.
There is another Anson in the uncontroller region.
Alexandra Banishments Anson. He goes to uncontrolled region with Fame out of play.
The Anson without out of play Fame is influenced into play.
Fame goes to the new Anson?
So Anson's going to be famous anyways. I just want to double check, 'cause personally I had to read the initial question a couple of times before I was sure I got the scenario right.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
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> SLave wrote:
>
> > Pascal wrote:
> >
> > > delangen wrote:
> > > When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
> > >
> > Yes.
> >
> And how about Mind Rape, for another note? Does it transfer as well?
>
EDIT: "Transfer" meaning "remain on the attached card and move from the uncontrolled to the ready region.
Sure: "Any cards and counters on that vampire stay with him or her (but they are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled)." (quoted from Banishment's text).
Maybe it should be made clearer in the rules that, when a minion is influenced out (vampire or imbued), any cards / counters on him or her in the uncontrolled region are also moved (and put face up, in case of cards). That text on Banishment seemed clear enough to me, but if it isn't, the Rules will have to be adapted.
> delangen wrote:
> I was playing the Spiridonas turbo soul gem deck... he was pentex subverted and had the society of leopold on him, he was also equipped with the soul gem and had the fortitude master, making him 11cap....(also a side note I kept an extra spiirdonas in the uncontrolled region with 5 blood just in case)
>
> My prey called a successfull banishment on him returning him to uncontrolled with 3 blood. So just to clarify the sequence of events: When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
>
> Furthermore next untap I can burn him with the society of leopold drawing a new Spiridonas free of the pentex and society allthough with no fortitude but he still have the soul gem, right?
>
> Thank you kindly
>
All cards stay on the exact copy of the minion that is banhished. So you would have 1 copy of Spiridonnas with 3 blood and Pentex et.al., and you would have 1 copy of Spiridonnas with 5 blood and no other cards as well.
If you influence the version where 5 blood are already on it, no cards are moved, Spiridonnas will enter play with no cards on him.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
> Kraus wrote:
> Cool, I didn't know that.
>
> So, if there's Anson with Fame in play, and his controller wanted to get a new one without Fame, he couldn't do that through Banishment.
>
> Scenario:
> Anson in play with Fame.
> There is another Anson in the uncontroller region.
> Alexandra Banishments Anson. He goes to uncontrolled region with Fame out of play.
> The Anson without out of play Fame is influenced into play.
> Fame goes to the new Anson?
>
No. it doesn't matter if the vampire is another copy of the one with Fame. What matters is if it is the vampire with Fame.
> Pascal wrote:
>
> > delangen wrote:
> > I was playing the Spiridonas turbo soul gem deck... he was pentex subverted and had the society of leopold on him, he was also equipped with the soul gem and had the fortitude master, making him 11cap....(also a side note I kept an extra spiirdonas in the uncontrolled region with 5 blood just in case)
> >
> > My prey called a successfull banishment on him returning him to uncontrolled with 3 blood. So just to clarify the sequence of events: When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
> >
> Yes.
>
I think this is not exactly true, given the scenario. When he brings the "new" copy, with 5 blood and no other cards on it in play, no cards are moved.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
That's the interesting part of the situation presented.
They stay on the minion, by the Banishment text.
Yet, the original post implied existance of two Spiridonases. And the one influenced was not the one banished. Nonetheless, both master cards and a minion card migrated to the newly influenced vampire.
The question is if they check for a particular copy of a minion, or just the minion itself (by its name).
> Amenophobis wrote:
>
> > Pascal wrote:
> >
> > > delangen wrote:
> > > I was playing the Spiridonas turbo soul gem deck... he was pentex subverted and had the society of leopold on him, he was also equipped with the soul gem and had the fortitude master, making him 11cap....(also a side note I kept an extra spiirdonas in the uncontrolled region with 5 blood just in case)
> > >
> > > My prey called a successfull banishment on him returning him to uncontrolled with 3 blood. So just to clarify the sequence of events: When I invest in the new Spiridonas the Pentex, Society, fortitiude and soul gem all transfer to him...correct?
> > >
> > Yes.
> >
> I think this is not exactly true, given the scenario. When he brings the "new" copy, with 5 blood and no other cards on it in play, no cards are moved.
>
Ah, right. I got confused with the "new" word.
If Spiridonas the Banished (the one on whom Pentex Subversion, Society of Leopold, etc. were played), is influenced out, these cards that were on him are actually still on him.
If Spiridonas "from crypt" (not the Banished one) is influenced out, no cards move to him. He's just a vampire who got influenced out.
Thanks Amenophobis - I edited the post above to make it clearer
> SLave wrote:
> That's the interesting part of the situation presented.
> They stay on the minion, by the Banishment text.
> Yet, the original post implied existance of two Spiridonases. And the one influenced was not the one banished. Nonetheless, both master cards and a minion card migrated to the newly influenced vampire.
>
They don't.
I got confused by the usage of "new".
Spiridonas1 has a Pentex Subversion, a Soul Gem of Etrius, a Fortitude discipline card, and a Society of Leopold. Spiridonas1 gets Banished.
- Spiridonas2 gets influenced out. Nothing moves.
- Spiridonas1 gets influenced out. Cards that were face down (out of play) on him in the uncontrolled are move to the ready region (face up).
> SLave wrote:
> The question is if they check for a particular copy of a minion, or just the minion itself (by its name).
>
I can't think (right now) of any effect other than contest that would affect cards simply due to their name. And cards that "name" cards (Grame, The Name Forgotten, Sudario Refraction, Betrayer, Precision, Sibyl's Tongue, Victim of Habit)
It would kind of make sense that even any Methuselah who invests in the control of any Spiridonas would then have to deal with the boon or bane of any cards on him, since the banishment says that:
•A Banished vampire will remember all effects that had been applied to him, just as contested vampires do. This includes gained or lost titles, etc. [RTR 20000501]
•Note that "for the rest of the game" effects pointing at the Banished vampire (from some other source) will resume if/when the vampire comes back into play (e.g., Contract naming that Assamite). [TOM 19960210]
I thought this was the spirit of contention and uniqueness,
Another example lets say vampire1 has the society of leopold after him and is equipped with, let's say an ivory bow. Another methusleah invest in the control of a copy vampire1 in his/her uncontroled ragion and brings them out contesting them. I know that the rules say otherwise but it would make sense that if the second methuselah were to win control of vampire1 the bow and the society would still belong to vamp1, since they represent the same vampire in the world...his bow shouldn't just magically burn and the society shouldn't stop chasing him just because he took a little (contested) vacation.
> delangen wrote:
> It would kind of make sense that even any Methuselah who invests in the control of any Spiridonas would then have to deal with the boon or bane of any cards on him, since the banishment says that:
>
> •A Banished vampire will remember all effects that had been applied to him, just as contested vampires do. This includes gained or lost titles, etc. [RTR 20000501]
> •Note that "for the rest of the game" effects pointing at the Banished vampire (from some other source) will resume if/when the vampire comes back into play (e.g., Contract naming that Assamite). [TOM 19960210]
>
> I thought this was the spirit of contention and uniqueness,
>
> Another example lets say vampire1 has the society of leopold after him and is equipped with, let's say an ivory bow. Another methusleah invest in the control of a copy vampire1 in his/her uncontroled ragion and brings them out contesting them. I know that the rules say otherwise but it would make sense that if the second methuselah were to win control of vampire1 the bow and the society would still belong to vamp1, since they represent the same vampire in the world...his bow shouldn't just magically burn and the society shouldn't stop chasing him just because he took a little (contested) vacation.
>
When he takes the job up with his new boss(the other methuselah) he forgets to clean out his desk and leaves the bow in it. The society of leopold are a bunch of hippies, and just find someone else to inconvenience. Like Christoff, since he killed thier founder....
But i get vaguely what you are saying. From a card game standpint, its excessive and not as logical as " tariq eatsyou, then notices he may as well take your damn motorcycle and your flamethrower, and your heart of cheating, and your..... you get the idea."
When the mnion chamges owners, not through contestarion, he keeps his stufc since its the same carx. Contestation resets stuff, so from a vtez rules standpoint, the minion getting yeilded losing its sruff is practical.
> Pascal wrote:
> I can't think (right now) of any effect other than contest that would affect cards simply due to their name. And cards that "name" cards (Grame, The Name Forgotten, Sudario Refraction, Betrayer, Precision, Sibyl's Tongue, Victim of Habit)
>
Spell Of Life?
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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> KevinM wrote:
>
> > Pascal wrote:
> > I can't think (right now) of any effect other than contest that would affect cards simply due to their name. And cards that "name" cards (Grame, The Name Forgotten, Sudario Refraction, Betrayer, Precision, Sibyl's Tongue, Victim of Habit)
> >
> Spell Of Life?
>
Follows "contest" rules.
> Pascal wrote:
> I can't think (right now) of any effect other than contest that would affect cards simply due to their name. And cards that "name" cards (Grame, The Name Forgotten, Sudario Refraction, Betrayer, Precision, Sibyl's Tongue, Victim of Habit)
>
All the paired vampires such as Greensleeves/Humo.
> Non-existant user wrote:
>
> > Pascal wrote:
> > I can't think (right now) of any effect other than contest that would affect cards simply due to their name. And cards that "name" cards (Grame, The Name Forgotten, Sudario Refraction, Betrayer, Precision, Sibyl's Tongue, Victim of Habit)
> >
> All the paired vampires such as Greensleeves/Humo.
>
Correct
Here's a brilliant deck idea: games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtes-rules/message/253
> Pascal wrote:
> Sure, you can choose to let Spiridonas + Fortitude + Soul Gem (+Pentex, +whatever he might also have) burn to the Society of Leopold during your untap phase.
>
if the vampire with society of leopold is banished, then (banishment cardtext) is uncontrolled, so he doesn't have to burn blood am i right? Or i getting it wrong? (SoL: during his controller's untap phase)
> AriusZet wrote:
>
> > Pascal wrote:
> > Sure, you can choose to let Spiridonas + Fortitude + Soul Gem (+Pentex, +whatever he might also have) burn to the Society of Leopold during your untap phase.
> >
> if the vampire with society of leopold is banished, then (banishment cardtext) is uncontrolled, so he doesn't have to burn blood am i right? Or i getting it wrong? (SoL: during his controller's untap phase)
>
I don't get the "banishment cardtext", but anyway: SoL has no effect on the vampire while the vampire is "banished" (uncontrolled), because SoL is out of play.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > AriusZet wrote:
> > if the vampire with society of leopold is banished, then (banishment cardtext) is uncontrolled, so he doesn't have to burn blood am i right? Or i getting it wrong? (SoL: during his controller's untap phase)
> >
> I don't get the "banishment cardtext", but anyway: SoL has no effect on the vampire while the vampire is "banished" (uncontrolled), because SoL is out of play.
>
I'm fairly certain Arius is saying 'If the vampire is banished then, because Banishment says: "Any cards and counters on that vampire stay with him or her (but they are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled).", the SoL is out of play, right, so we ignore SoL's card text for the timebeing?'
(To which the answer is obviously: yes.)
Correct answers from jamesatzephyr and Ankha.
Cards out of play (such as cards in your library, cards in your hand, contested cards, cards in your uncontrolled area, or in your ash heap - or removed from the game) have no effect.