Econo Baltimore

Deck Name: EconoBaltimore Created By: Franz Description: So, lately I've been fiddling with the idea of library thinning with burn option. I've played Henry twister for a long time, but now I have this idea of using the same concept in aggressive decks as opposed to wallish ones. So I got the Rachel Brandywine madness network + homunculus + baltimore purge combo and made a deck who's goal is to get the combo off once. I imagine that people won't resist having 5 vampires sent to torpor once, and then I can selectively rescue people and call enough perpetual cares that will put me in a advantageous position to sweep the table. Ashur tablets are for a second wind after the first combo goes off, in order to finish anything left. Crypt: (11 cards, Min: 7, Max: 40, Avg: 4,90) 1 César Holfield obf 1 Caitiff 1 Milo aus obf 3 Malkavian 4 Rachel Brandywine ani AUS DEM OBF PRO10 Malkavian 1 Denette Stensen obf 2 Gangrel Antitribu 1 Hanna Redmonds obf tha 2 Caitiff 1 Krid obf 2 Nosferatu 1 Bloodfeud obf 2 Malkavian Antitribu 1 Old Neddacka obf 2 Nosferatu Antitribu Library: (60 cards) Master (7 cards) 2 Madness Network 3 Ashur Tablets 1 Fame 1 Specialization Action (5 cards) 5 Baltimore Purge Action Modifier (8 cards) 1 Faceless Night 2 Forgotten Labyrinth 2 Elder Impersonation 1 Into Thin Air 2 Lost in Crowds Political Action (3 cards) 3 Perpetual Care Reaction (30 cards) 30 Bloodstorm of Chorazin Combat (5 cards) 2 Form of Mist 3 Earth Meld Retainer (2 cards) 2 Homunculus 1)How do you intend to oust? Big perpetual cares called by weenies in a hopefully vote free table (as anybody with titles will be in torpor when I call the vote) 2)How do you intend to keep from being ousted? Spending little pool on vampires (10 on rachel and a couple of weenies at best) and hoping not to get an aggressive predator 3) What do you want your ready region to look like (ie, how many guys are you planning on getting out)? Rachel with homunculus and madness network in play, 2 or 3 obfuscate weenies 4) What do you want your average turn to look like? Well, this deck doesn't have an average turn. Normally it starts slow trying not to raise any alarms and cycling through burn options until you have Rachel with homunculus and drop a madness network, then it's 5 baltimores and everybody goes to torpor.

Someone in ohio bad a rachel purges table deck a few years before i started playing, and ive heard it ran well. I dont see this deck doing very well though. Ont get me wrong, you WILL dunk the table maybe once. but you wont win. u have an 11 card crypt for starters, so that needs dealt with. A 60 functioning card madness rach deck could be very viable, but nit as purge. Lets say you get ser up. Rachel has homonoculous and you have out madness network. You play purge, pass the turn, and untap when i(as yoir prey) do. I then decide i dont want my vampire (any vampire ive ever played. Lets say Ferox or sebastion gboulet or serena the white or my favorire, gotsdam) in torpor, let alone all of them. (Assuming i dint know what this deck has for offense, and assume you are going to oust me) so, to purge again, you need to wait out my minion phase actions and act thhru madness network. I see apotential mukti purge, so i burn madness network. Now, @0 stealth, you can block me 3 times and untap if you play EVERY earth meld in the deck. So, i try with owain, yiu earth meld after blocming. I try with gotsdam, you earth meld after blocking. I try witb neighbor john, same thing. With my last minion, i try with jephta. U block. No earth meld. I freak drive afgrr punching for one and burn the madness network. You have no decense. In the above case, i had no useful vlpck denial. Really, in an actual eck, i would have had daring the dawn, seduction, maybe even basic perfect paragon, and you couldnt catch me. You need some kind of second trad or eyes or argus... something to survive. Even all sabbat supporting cast with abbots is better than what you have. Ive playex madness network extensively. Malkavians are my favorite clan, the only uniaue thing about them in vtes is madness network. Ive probably gained more pool with victorias special than i have ousting with stealth bleed. Madness network decks suceeding is important to me. So, that brings me to the last point: ousting. You cant take the table with bleeds of 2 and perpetual care. Even with white nights massacre, its a stretch. The best thing you can gain from dunking the table is graverobbing and burning every vamp other than your own. And rachel has no dominate. So, 60 cards seems too few, especually if half of that isnt cards to play. You neex to oust, you need to defend. Itz not that i have no faith in this idea, id like to see it work, but its not going to with only 30 playable cards and no defense or ousting power. Hope ive helped.

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > Someone in ohio bad a rachel purges table deck a few years before i started playing, and ive heard it ran well. > > I dont see this deck doing very well though. Ont get me wrong, you WILL dunk the table maybe once. but you wont win. u have an 11 card crypt for starters, so that needs dealt with. A 60 functioning card madness rach deck could be very viable, but nit as purge. Lets say you get ser up. Rachel has homonoculous and you have out madness network. You play purge, pass the turn, and untap when i(as yoir prey) do. I then decide i dont want my vampire (any vampire ive ever played. Lets say Ferox or sebastion gboulet or serena the white or my favorire, gotsdam) in torpor, let alone all of them. (Assuming i dint know what this deck has for offense, and assume you are going to oust me) so, to purge again, you need to wait out my minion phase actions and act thhru madness network. I see apotential mukti purge, so i burn madness network. Now, @0 stealth, you can block me 3 times and untap if you play EVERY earth meld in the deck. So, i try with owain, yiu earth meld after blocming. I try with gotsdam, you earth meld after blocking. I try witb neighbor john, same thing. With my last minion, i try with jephta. U block. No earth meld. I freak drive afgrr punching for one and burn the madness network. > You have no decense. In the above case, i had no useful vlpck denial. Really, in an actual eck, i would have had daring the dawn, seduction, maybe even basic perfect paragon, and you couldnt catch me. > You need some kind of second trad or eyes or argus... something to survive. Even all sabbat supporting cast with abbots is better than what you have. > > Ive playex madness network extensively. Malkavians are my favorite clan, the only uniaue thing about them in vtes is madness network. Ive probably gained more pool with victorias special than i have ousting with stealth bleed. Madness network decks suceeding is important to me. > > So, that brings me to the last point: ousting. You cant take the table with bleeds of 2 and perpetual care. Even with white nights massacre, its a stretch. The best thing you can gain from dunking the table is graverobbing and burning every vamp other than your own. And rachel has no dominate. > > So, 60 cards seems too few, especually if half of that isnt cards to play. You neex to oust, you need to defend. > > Itz not that i have no faith in this idea, id like to see it work, but its not going to with only 30 playable cards and no defense or ousting power. > > Hope ive helped. > I see your point and maybe you are right, but there a couple of things you didn't consider: 1 - I have chump blockers (I'll add one more weenie with OBF for sure, thought I had 8 of them ), so I don't need to put Rachel on the line to block the burn the network action. I can see myself adding some allies for blocking purposes, maybe a carlton and a muddled vampire hunter... 2 - I don't need to do the first purge on my turn... I can, for instance, just get the homunculus, cycle, and pass the turn untaping in his untap and looking like a boring Rachel wall deck. When he is done with his actions I can then call the first baltimore purge, in this way eliminating one set of minions from burning madness network. Of course after people realize what the deck does it the network can be swarmed, but that's when you can start making deals involving rescues, diableries, the possibilite of damaging one's prey with perpetual care, etc. 3- I considered graverrobing, but end up think that I couldn't afford DOM guys, cryptwise. Even if I don't need stealth in a table where everyone is torporized, superior dominate comes with 4 and 5 caps (and one 3-cap), while you can get inferior obf in 1 and 2 caps. I rather have two obf guys that can call two perpetual cares than one DOM guy who can steal one vampire. This isn't set in stone however, and maybe addinginferior dominate guys and simply abandoning the perpetual care angle can be the best way to go

Yo need a plan B if you happen to encounter Inner Circles, since you deppend on Perpetual Care to oust. 1 Enkil Cog wouldn't do bad, since it allows you to act out of your turn and gives you +1 perma bleed in case you need it. 1-2 derange can also do the job in case it's not Lutz/Leandro you're fighting.

> Franz wrote: > 1 - I have chump blockers (I'll add one more weenie with OBF for sure, thought I had 8 of them ), so I don't need to put Rachel on the line to block the burn the network action. I can see myself adding some allies for blocking purposes, maybe a carlton and a muddled vampire hunter... > +1 stealth. It's not weenie you need, it's weenie . > > 2 - I don't need to do the first purge on my turn... I can, for instance, just get the homunculus, cycle, and pass the turn untaping in his untap and looking like a boring Rachel wall deck. > 1) It does not make any difference for your prey. Even if he believes you play a "boring" deck that only bleeds him for 10 per turn, that is still unacceptable for him. 2) The bluff is not going to work: you don't play a Rachel wall deck with 30 cards.

What if someone has two titled vampires? One goes to torpor, sure, but you wont have the vote lock maybe. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > What if someone has two titled vampires? One goes to torpor, sure, but you wont have the vote lock maybe. > the Idea of the deck is to get 4-5 baltimores on Rachel at the same time and then torporizing 4-5 vampires of each methuselah at my untap phase... if they have 6 vampires with votes they probably alreadt won the game anyway. Also I was relutant in adding aus weenies because they do nothing without aus transients which I'm reluctant to put on the deck due to space concernsn. If I can defend both rachel and the network the turn the combo goes off (after the first baltimore hits the table) I'll probably have 3 to 4 actions on my turn to deal with my prey, then 1 action each other methuselah's turn to deal with the rest of the table. One thing I'm really considering is swapping the obf weenies for dom ones and going the inferior graverobbing way, dropping perpetual cares as I need to call them in my turn (before my prey start getting their minions) but would probably kill the wrong people if I can't rescue cross table vampires on my turn.

> Franz wrote: > Normally it starts slow trying not to raise any alarms and cycling through burn options until you have Rachel with homunculus and drop a madness network, then it's 5 baltimores and everybody goes to torpor. > Why would you try to start slowly? 3 turns to bring out your first vampire is slow enough and it's not like Rachel is played in anything but Madness Network decks. Raised is the default alarm setting for Rachel. You should just set your aims on a turn 4 Madness Network and Homunculus. Maybe think about aus weenies for Anima Gathering, that way you're set with all you need in a single turn. Specialization makes you wait a full turn before it does anything. Play Dreams instead. Fame is cute but do you care about the pool damage when you can straight up win with 3 stacked Purges on round 4? Same goes for Perpetual Cares. Focus on hitting your win condition before worrying about overkill or win more conditions. If nobody else has ready vampires, just diablerize clockwise and bleed with Network. With these principles in mind, I would go here and crack card ratios until I had acceptable chances of having both Madness Network and Homunculus in my hand by turn 4. If there's no good solution, the combo doesn't work.

I like the concept, but the deck has two serious flaws (imho). The Madness Network can be removed very easily (they need just one stealth!). Smart players would remove the Madness Network immediately. Secondly, since you don't play any Lasombra the other players can choose their target, if you manage pull of one BM. I can't really see why playing Rachel is advantageous in the deck in the current state. Maybe Henry Taylor plus some dom Weenies (for Graverobbing) can save the concept.

> cordovader wrote: > Yo need a plan B if you happen to encounter Inner Circles, since you deppend on Perpetual Care to oust. > The problem is with the capacity, since 11 caps dodge Rachel's Purge. 1-2x Abombwe skill card? Also might want 1x Perfectionist, although diablerizing is a good way to gain blood.

How about this variation? Crypt (Capacity min=2 max=10 avg=6.33; 12 cards) =================================================== 3x Henry Taylor 6 cel pre pro POT !Brujah:3 1x Marciana Giovanni, Investigator 2 dom Giovanni:2 2x Ohanna 2 dom Malkavian:2 5x Rachel Brandywine 10 ani AUS DEM OBF PRO Malkavian:3 1x Samson 2 dom !Ventrue:2 Library (61 cards) ===================== Master (12 cards) 2x Abombwe 4x Ashur Tablets 1x Fame 2x Madness Network 1x Protean 1x Specialization 1x Wider View Action (8 cards) 1x Abbot 5x Baltimore Purge 2x Graverobbing Equipment (1 cards) 1x Sport Bike Retainer (2 cards) 2x Homunculus Action Modifier (6 cards) 1x Elder Impersonation 1x Faceless Night 2x Forgotten Labyrinth 2x Into Thin Air Reaction (26 cards) 26x Bloodstorm of Chorazin Combat (6 cards) 4x Earth Meld 2x Form of Mist Created with Secret Library v0.9.4a. (Apr 9, 2013 21:10:39)

> extrala wrote: > How about this variation? > > Crypt (Capacity min=2 max=10 avg=6.33; 12 cards) > =================================================== > 3x Henry Taylor 6 cel pre pro POT !Brujah:3 > 1x Marciana Giovanni, Investigator 2 dom Giovanni:2 > 2x Ohanna 2 dom Malkavian:2 > 5x Rachel Brandywine 10 ani AUS DEM OBF PRO Malkavian:3 > 1x Samson 2 dom !Ventrue:2 > > Library (61 cards) > ===================== > Master (12 cards) > 2x Abombwe > 4x Ashur Tablets > 1x Fame > 2x Madness Network > 1x Protean > 1x Specialization > 1x Wider View > > Action (8 cards) > 1x Abbot > 5x Baltimore Purge > 2x Graverobbing > > Equipment (1 cards) > 1x Sport Bike > > Retainer (2 cards) > 2x Homunculus > > Action Modifier (6 cards) > 1x Elder Impersonation > 1x Faceless Night > 2x Forgotten Labyrinth > 2x Into Thin Air > > Reaction (26 cards) > 26x Bloodstorm of Chorazin > > Combat (6 cards) > 4x Earth Meld > 2x Form of Mist > > Created with Secret Library v0.9.4a. (Apr 9, 2013 21:10:39) > I like it! A lot actually, get the best of two worlds. Add one waste management operation for even more recursion and I think it's set. It'll die horribly to any kind of fast deck, but heh, most decks do anyway, so this ain't that big of a problem.

Most card efficient way to deal with vampires in torpor: White Nights Massacre.

> Non-existant user wrote: > Most card efficient way to deal with vampires in torpor: White Nights Massacre. > Heres the conundrum: how many copies of white nights massacre do you neex to ru. To make the combo happen? Now, with this deck, how many copies of Ossian and or Walks With Might do you have to run to reliably find the combo go off? Now, whats the liklyhood that yiu have the perfect balanced of gamestate( rachel with homo, madness network, weenies out, one or the other wolf out, hand of 2 wnm and 5 purges, and the next several cards in your library stealth or form of mist)? Ok, so Arika purge works betfer with wnm, since she atleast can summon ossian, has supporting casst of purging ten caps, and everyone can get an outferior renewed vigor, purge, play stealth, and graverobb.