Permableed for !Malk

I have two slots in !Malk DEM OBF AUS based !malk deck. The deck has (really) good poolgain, but is vulnerable to combat, BUT can fetch Secure Haven faster and pull off bleeds anywhere on the table. What I need is to fill those two slots with permableed to compensate for playing with a single vampire. After done with the rusher, the vamp can perish under Archon Investigation, I can afford that. I was filling those two slots with Enchanted Marionette and Pulse of the Canaille, but lately I have seen Dive Into The Madness advocated as a good permableed, so I thought, whether my choices were sub-optimal? Do you have other suggestions how to make a single vamp a mean bleed machine in otherwise certain vamp-unfocused deck? Enchanted Marionette [Equipment] [Malkavian antitribu] [3 Pool] Unique equipment. The Malkavian antitribu with this equipment gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when bleeding. Pulse of the Canaille [Action] [Auspex] [3 Blood] +1 stealth action. [aus] For the remainder of this turn, you may look at all Methuselahs' hands. [AUS] Put this card on the acting vampire. The vampire with this card gets +2 bleed. A vampire can have only one Pulse of the Canaille. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

I think I would choose none of the above. * Enchanted Marionette is just too expensive * Pulse of Canaille looks good in the first place, but it costs three blood and you need a vampire with AUS. The same vampire that most likely needs his blood for playing Telepathic Misdirection. If you actually want to play Permableed in !Malk bleed deck, I would just add one copy of Tasha Morgan and J.S. Simmons, Esq. instead. It's cheap and it's not interfering with the Kindred Spirits bleed action like Camera Phone, Codex of Ednic Groundskeeper, etc..

Thanks! I'd like to know of viable options in general, so I did not get specific with my deck. Maybe something more, for 2+ bleed/stealt? It is hard to justify action to equip +1 stealth/+1 bleed when half of crypt has inbuilt +1 stealth/+1 bleed as it is. Even if they hadn't, +1 permableed instead of bleed +3 with DEM KS+EoC for 1 poolgain would break even 4 turns after equiping. Which is 20 pool damage in a perfect world. Which is more than enough to oust a rush deck. +2 bleed bleed on the other hand means breaking even 2 turns after equiping. 3 turns = 12 pool damage, which is somewhat not enough for the 1st oust, hence it would be worth to get +2 permableed. On the other hand, if I replaced EoC with Confusion, +1 permableed would sound just as well, since you would get your action-worth in 3rd turn after eq. action and at 12 poold damage equivalent. Wee! Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

Have you a significant number of cap 10+ ? Because Enkil Cog seem the perfect fit in this case. Apart from that, I am not too thrilled by +bleed equip when your crypt already bleed for 3 easily, but without seeing the deck, hard to judge.

2x Madman's Quill? Very good if you have plenty of dem minions, but also usable as +2 bleed... Finnish Politics!

> kombainas wrote: > What I need is to fill those two slots with permableed to compensate for playing with a single vampire. > why is it your goal to play with a single vampire??? This sounds like a terrible strategy. Do you mean to say that you have a lot of combat in your meta-game? If so, add 2x Swallowed By The Night to run away from them (and for +1 stealth when needed). Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

> why is it your goal to play with a single vampire??? This sounds like a terrible strategy. > This is not the strategy, it is what heavy combat metagame is forcing me into approx every second game. Just a plan B. > Do you mean to say that you have a lot of combat in your meta-game? If so, add 2x Swallowed By The Night to run away from them (and for +1 stealth when needed). > Swallowed By The Night does not help (sadly). TBH, even deny is more useful in my metagame. As everyone knows I can pack a load of Comma's, they rarely come unprepared. 4xSecret Passage turned out to be pretty useful, but current deck just is too master-heavy Just saying, as it might have looked unusual to have a gameplan using a single vampire. > Have you a significant number of cap 10+ ? Because Enkil Cog seem the perfect fit in this case. > Only 1 10-cap and usually 4-th most desireable in the crypt. > 2x Madman's Quill? > Very good if you have plenty of dem minions, but also usable as +2 bleed... > This is good, I will look for them, they fit nicely into S&B mechanics and is kept by my prey instead of me! Btw, as my metagame knows that I pack quite a few Golcondas and would come to burn my vampires, would it be prudent to add a single Abandoning The Flesh? Abandoning the Flesh [Reaction] [Combat] [Dementation] Only usable by a vampire being burned. Usable by a vampire in torpor. [dem] Remove this vampire from the game instead (diablerie, if any, is still successful), and put this card into play. You may not play this card if you already have an Abandoning the Flesh in play. You may tap this card when a vampire with Dementation [dem] is bleeding to give that vampire +1 bleed for the current action. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

Rather than focus on picking the best mid to high-capacity vampires to counter combat, I would suggest just bringing out more small guys. If you have several vampires it isn't as big of a deal if one or even two go down to rush. With the spare actions you can rescue them, they can hunt and then they are a fully functional DEM/dem bleeder. Include Giant's Blood and Coven to keep your blood supply up. Just by having more minions you have more permanent bleed, by the way, and in a way that isn't as vulnerable to Archon Investigation or bleed bounce. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

> kombainas wrote: > > > KevinM wrote: > > why is it your goal to play with a single vampire??? This sounds like a terrible strategy. > > > This is not the strategy, it is what heavy combat metagame is forcing me into approx every second game. Just a plan B. > If I were you, instead of trying to shoehorn cards into a deck that doesn't want them, I'd just stop playing an AUS DEM OBF deck, since it's not very good in a combat-heavy meta-game. I'd start playing some sort of anti-combat deck that eats the others for lunch and gain lots and lots of GWs and make fun of the bad combat decks while you're at it. Then, when the meta-shifts back, because they are tired of losing to you, your !Malk deck becomes playable again. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

This deck is actually designed to withstand combat-heavy metagame without reducing it effectiveness. I have turbine (InfoH+Zhilla+Dreams) and minion tap(should be villein)+low blood cost cards (only telepathic misdirection and elder impersonation cost blood) so I can safely leave 1-3 blood on a vamp and if they go to torpor, I Golconda them. Healthy pool + 8+caps brought out in a single turn works magic. Usual problem is that metagame rush is pretty efficient at getting in combat and more often than not they can send more than 1 minion into torpor and I find myself influencing a vamp and losing it before my turn comes. Therefore I need a reliable way to keep constant pressure even with a single vamp and backoust as necessary I did try to somewhat weenify the deck, but it turned out slower, less effective at ousting and even more vulnerable in my metagame. This is the latest version of it: Deck Name: !Malk stealth-bleed v2 Author: Description: Based on Munduko Txapelketa III: Big Malkavian Deck, added a turbine with minion taps to quickly breed fat guys Actually this worked pretty well. Turbine makes up for speed of influencing fat guys who only need blood for Elder Impersonation and Telepathic Misdirection so you can Minion Tap quite a lot at once. Crypt (Capacity min=2 max=10 avg=6.67; 12 cards) =================================================== 2x Bloodfeud 2 obf !Malkavian:4 2x Harold Zettler, Pentex Director 9 vic AUS DEM OBF POT !Malkavian:4 2x Louhi 10 pro ANI AUS DEM OBF THA !Malkavian:4 2x Midget 3 obf pre DEM !Malkavian:3 2x Persephone Tar-Anis 8 cel pot AUS DEM OBF !Malkavian:4 2x Rodolfo 8 pro AUS DEM OBF !Malkavian:3 Library (81 cards) ===================== Master (25 cards) 1x Barrens, The 1x Bleeding the Vine 1x Dreams of the Sphinx 1x Giant's Blood 3x Golconda: Inner Peace 2x Information Highway 6x Minion Tap 1x Parthenon, The 1x Secure Haven 2x Storage Annex 2x Vessel 4x Zillah's Valley Event (1 cards) 1x Bitter and Sweet Story, The Action (13 cards) 10x Kindred Spirits 1x Pulse of the Canaille 2x Sibyl's Tongue Equipment (1 cards) 1x Enchanted Marionette Action Modifier (20 cards) 2x Elder Impersonation 10x Eyes of Chaos 2x Faceless Night 2x Into Thin Air 2x Marked Path 2x Spying Mission Reaction (16 cards) 5x On the Qui Vive 8x Telepathic Misdirection 3x Wake with Evening's Freshness Combo (5 cards) 1x Abandoning the Flesh 2x Deny 2x Swallowed by the Night Created with Secret Library v0.9.4a. (Feb 13, 2013 08:55:32) Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

Dive into Madness would allow you to have the big guy use it for permableed while the little guys with could use it to get . That way you could have the support cast be smaller and therefore not such a big loss if they get torpored. OTOH, if you only have one dude, then he is better off bleeding than using an action to get +bleed 90% of the time (unless you have multiact). As for the deck that you posted, seems a bit light on stealth. Changing some of the Eyes of Chaos for Confusion, maybe? Also, why 2xBloodfeud and no Jackie?

> As for the deck that you posted, seems a bit light on stealth. Changing some of the Eyes of Chaos for Confusion, maybe? > Light intercept is uncommon in my metagame, but I guess I will add 2xElder Impersonation to get past walls and/or change 2 EoC to Confussion. > Also, why 2xBloodfeud and no Jackie? > Bloodfeud usually is bound under agreement not to bleed for not to be rushed. He takes Vessel then, hunts or fetches cards with Tongues. obf is superior to DEM under such conditions. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

You have built a deck that remove vampires using golconda once they have filled their purpose or sent to torpor. I think you should build your entire deck with this in mind, the next step is just to optimize the card flow. * Remove Minion Tap in favor of Villein. This is probably the single best change you can do. * Replace Bitter and Sweet Story, The with Anthelios. This way you can reduce the number of golconda you must have and still be able to use it whenever you want. * Skip all permanents (such as Pulse of the Canaille, Enchanted Marionette). They will be gone when removed by Golconda. * Into Thin Air should IMHO always be replaced with Lost in Crowds. The drawback is too heavy. * Marked Path is such a bad card. Replace with more Lost. * Abandoning the Flesh. No. * Wake with evenings Freshness is clearly inferior to Eyes of Argus in this deck. * Add one Coma. It is a card that should never be played but always to be feared. You should act as if you always have a Coma in your hand but never actually do. * Swallowed by the Night is such an awesome stealth card in high combat meta. If you didn't go for the Golconda angle I'd suggest you use ton of it in combination with Disgused+Ivory Bow and other fun weapons. * If you are playing in intercept heavy meta. Replace some of the Eyes of Chaos with Confusion. It will reduce your bleed potential but it's better with a small bleed than no bleed.

Good thing to know about Elder Impersonation: You can play it (at superior) even if you have more stealth than the currently attempting-to-block minion has intercept. Which means you can cycle it "pretty" easily. Options to get more bleed: Madman's Quill (for base effect) Spying Mission Dive into madness 10 more Kindred Spirits.

Thanks all, this turned out to be a very helpful topic! > * Remove Minion Tap in favor of Villein. This is probably the single best change you can do. > Definately yes. Current version lacks them just because, I did not acquire them yet. Soon I should. > * Replace Bitter and Sweet Story, The with Anthelios. This way you can reduce the number of golconda you must have and still be able to use it whenever you want. > Great insight! But I would keep them both I guess. This deck usually guarantees a VP, but tend to peter out in late game if stopped by a wall or smth. I did try Gambit Accepted and Momentum's Edge, but they were not that much useful within this particular deck (playing them help did not have effect on my survival, nor ousting). > * Into Thin Air should IMHO always be replaced with Lost in Crowds. The drawback is too heavy. > In my opinion, this is THE deck to use Into Thin Air. It is equivalent to 3 stealth in otherwise stealth-light S&B and guys are old enough to be able to fully utilise this. > * Marked Path is such a bad card. Replace with more Lost. > But its cycleability helps a lot, no? Plus I often find myself relying on a single vamp to do the job, so it should both act as stealth for him and keep hand jam away. > * Wake with evenings Freshness is clearly inferior to Eyes of Argus in this deck. > Agreed, too bad I have none. > * Add one Coma. It is a card that should never be played but always to be feared. You should act as if you always have a Coma in your hand but never actually do. > Did that, included 8 at one point, everyone took notice Also got 7 No Trace, I should scare them with these also > Good thing to know about Elder Impersonation: You can play it (at superior) even if you have more stealth than the currently attempting-to-block minion has intercept. Which means you can cycle it "pretty" easily. > This is new to me, thank you! Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

What are you being rushed by? Traveller Card Game

Mostly Massassi pitch-additional-strike-press-wall or Lorance Blood Brothers (setting range), rarer cases include !Salubri ala Langa and Adonai press-prevent-all combat, or Kiasyd press combat. The first two are the nemesis . Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

> Chaitan wrote: > * Into Thin Air should IMHO always be replaced with Lost in Crowds. The drawback is too heavy. > THIS IS OFF TOPIC but for large vampires with as their only stealth discipline, Into Thin Air works well enough. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

> kombainas wrote: > Mostly Massassi pitch-additional-strike-press-wall or Lorance Blood Brothers (setting range), rarer cases include !Salubri ala Langa and Adonai press-prevent-all combat, or Kiasyd press combat. The first two are the nemesis . > So, the Massassi deck beats No Trace with Psyche! and the BB deck beats it with Immortal Grapple? In theory, if you have a 10 cap out, you can Mental Maze all of the rushers. Though, part of the reason I asked was to get an idea of whether the rushes were at stealth or not. Sounds like a lot aren't at stealth, which means dropping chump blockers, like Jake Washington (admittedly, more masters) or Procurers/Neighborhood Watch Commanders (actions, blood cost), would slow the decks down long enough to Kindred Spirits them out of the game. But, really, as brought up earlier, in this sort of meta, I would be inclined to just go Protean/Dominate or Dom/For/Obf or whatever if I were going to play stealth bleed. Actually, Dem/Pro would be a funny way to go. Your crypt wouldn't even change that much, maybe just have to add some Protean masters. Traveller Card Game

I'd be thinking of retooling to a wall-ish deck using your AUS OBF. Throw them sideways by using permanent bleed with Pulse of the Canaille, large vampires, OBF and then using Mental Maze to screw the rushers. It will look like your usual S&B deck until you start actually playing the cards. Bowl of Convergence Anima Gatherings Pulse of the Canaille Mild Stealth Telepathic Misdirections Lots of Mental Mazes Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

If you are dealing with Massassi, a single maneuver won't be enough. Consider adding some "Disguised Weapon" and ".44 Magnum." Maybe even "Deer Rifle." On top of that you would need a few more "Swallowed by the Night" and consider a few "Behind You!" You don't have a whole lot of stealth. Consider replacing half your "Eyes of Chaos" with "Confusion." A "Coma" or two is a nice expected surprise. However, if you see a lot of "Immortal Grapple" it won't do much good. Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.

Massasi uses Sewer Lids and the like with dodging, so maneuvers and guns are not that useful as guns do not deliver. BB are setting range and preventing damage, so fighting back isn't that great without dedicating a whole lot of deck space. Not fighting at all and making losses into profit seemed natural to me. Making a Malk/!Malk peaceful wall is on my mind, but that is entirely another story. I wonder why noone suggested making Louhi a star in such enviroment, she screws decks relying on cards to get into combat pretty hard. Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

Only 14 stealth cards? If that is enough to get your actions through, you must be in a really interceptless meta game. I would at the very least switch most eyes to confusions. Also you have way too many masters, I would take out at least Bleeding the Vine, Parthenon, Storage Annexes, and Vessels, and replace the minion taps with villeins, probably add a coven. Also ditch the pulse and marionette, you really don't have time to get those with that fat guys, also not sure really what Sibyl's Tongues will do to you in this deck. Also switch Louhi to Jason, the World's Voice for another +bleeder.

I would disagree about Jason. He burns blood to get bleed, which this decks cannot afford. Louhi has 3 votes in otherwise voteless (bar another bishop) deck and her ability is the only one defensive and especially effective against certain rushes. Much better spent 1 blood cost, imho. I was thinking of Lutz though, but then couldn't find justification to spend 3 more transfers for an additional +1 bleed and an abbility I would never trigger myself. Yes, it is either wall or nothing currently in my metagame, and loads of bleed redirects. 1 stealth card per action card ratio turned out to be ok. But I did replace permableed with a little more bleed, and changed EoC: confusion ratio to 2:1. Sibyl's Tongues are for fetching Secure Haven and/or Parthenon early. Having 2 to 8 is always good, and it is hard to underestimate its usefulness against Rush or Master hand jam. Notice that cheap, but otherwise useless Bloodfeud can play them (first 3 at least) and back them with stealth, thus making him pretty useful and even finding that Secure Haven before any of the big guys hit the table Secure Haven is way of life Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.