Puzzle: Bringing out an 11-cap on turn 1?

Here's a puzzle: At a 5 player table, is it theoretically possible for anyone to bring out an 11-cap on their first turn? If so, how, and which players can do it? I'm pretty sure it's possible for players 4 and 5, but I can't figure out if it's possible for players 1, 2, or 3. I'm pretty sure it's impossible for player 1, and probably player 2 also. Enjoy! Ira

It can be done from the 2nd seat using only 1 of the 2 available transfers. Player 2 must be playing Sutekh and she must receive from help from a friendly (or stupid) predator Player 1: Master: House of Sorrow. Pass turn. Player 2: Master: Parthenon. Player 2: Tap Parthenon for second MPA. Player 2: Second Master: Eternals of Siruis, move 5 blood onto Sutekh Player 1: Tap House of Sorrow, targeting Player 2's Parthenon Player 2: Tap Parthenon for third MPA. Player 2: Third Master: Eternals of Siruis, move 5 blood onto Sutekh (again) Player 2: Transfer 1 onto Sukekh gaining control of a 1st turn 11 cap (from seat 2). If you tried this with Zillah's Valley and Arika, the player must be in the third seat to successfully get Arika into play on turn 1.

Cool idea, but unfortunately it doesn't work because House of Sorrow can only target cards you control. House of Sorrow 1 pool Master: unique location. Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so, neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap phase Ira

You can do it with Player 3 (or 4 or 5) if Players 1 and 2 are using Malkavian weenies + Malkavian Dementia + Reversal of Fortunes tricks to constantly take turns between them. Once you have enough minions you can call a bunch of Honor the Elders for Players 3, 4, and 5. You'd probably want to start with Player 1 playing an Info Highway to influence out a 2 or 3-cap Malkavian. Player 2 then plays Malkavian Dementia and calls a Reversal of Fortunes. Etc. Then during Player 1's next turn, he calls another Reversal of Fortunes. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

Other ways for Player 3 to bring out an 11-cap: Player 1 plays Last Stand and influences out a 1-cap. Player 2 ousts himself with Secret Horde (X = 30). Player 1 takes an extra turn. Plays the Parthenon and gives it to Player 3 (his 1-cap calls Disputed Territory). Player 3 now has 2 master phases to play 2 Eternals of Sirius. Or Tomb of Rameses + Information Highway. Alternatively, if Player 2 can Malkavian Dementia Player 1's weenie Malk, he can also play a Rumors of Gehenna to give Player 3 (and everyone else) a second master phase action. Though in that case you'd probably need the 2 Eternals for Player 3. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

> echiang wrote: > You can do it with Player 3 (or 4 or 5) if Players 1 and 2 are using Malkavian weenies + Malkavian Dementia + Reversal of Fortunes tricks to constantly take turns between them. Once you have enough minions you can call a bunch of Honor the Elders for Players 3, 4, and 5. > > You'd probably want to start with Player 1 playing an Info Highway to influence out a 2 or 3-cap Malkavian. Player 2 then plays Malkavian Dementia and calls a Reversal of Fortunes. Etc. Then during Player 1's next turn, he calls another Reversal of Fortunes. > Ah, yes! And instead of Reversal of Fortunes tricks, you could just call Rumors of Gehenna naming everyone. (edit: As I see you already realized.) The Last Stand + Secret Horde example is very clever! But no way for Player 2 to do it, right? Only players 3-5. I thought maybe something with Jake Washington from Player 1, but I don't think there's anything. Ira

> echiang wrote: > You can do it with Player 3 (or 4 or 5) if Players 1 and 2 are using Malkavian weenies + Malkavian Dementia + Reversal of Fortunes tricks to constantly take turns between them. Once you have enough minions you can call a bunch of Honor the Elders for Players 3, 4, and 5. > > You'd probably want to start with Player 1 playing an Info Highway to influence out a 2 or 3-cap Malkavian. Player 2 then plays Malkavian Dementia and calls a Reversal of Fortunes. Etc. Then during Player 1's next turn, he calls another Reversal of Fortunes. > It's not exactly what I call "on the first turn" Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

By the way, how Reversal of fortune interact with nb of transfert ? If the players go 1 - 2 - 5 - 1 - 2 - 3 via two Reversal, the number of transfer for the acting player stay at 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 4 ... (i.e. regardless of the player it increase by one), or does it do 1 - 2 - 1 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 (i.e. the player 1 have 1 transfer until every player have played) ?

The first player gets 1. The second player gets 2. The third player (who could've been the first player if player #2 isn't smart) gets 3. Afterwards, everyone gets 4. So, in the unlikely event of player 1 playing Malkavian and bringing out someone on turn 1, and player 2 playing Malkavian Dementia, and then calling Reversal of Fortunes (*), player 1 would get 1 transfer (on turn 1) and 3 transfers (on the reversed turn).

> Ira wrote: > Cool idea, but unfortunately it doesn't work because House of Sorrow can only target cards you control. > > House of Sorrow > 1 pool > Master: unique location. > Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so, neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap phase > It also doesn't work because Parthenon uses the "during X, do Y" pattern.

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > > Player 1: Master: House of Sorrow. Pass turn. > > Player 2: Master: Parthenon. > House of Sorrow can untap the Parthenon, but you cannot use that Parthenon again in the same turn. 'Tap during your master phase to get an additional master phase action.' www.facebook.com/groups/vtes.belgium/

Player 3 can bring out a 11 cap with a lot of help of the other Methuselah. Player 1 plays Powerbase: Montreal and influence out Brazil. Player 2 plays Malkavian Dementia on Brazil and calls a Rumors of Gehenna with him, targeting player 3. Player 3 plays 2 Zillah's Valley and use 3 transfer to bring out a 11-cap. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

As a side note, From a Sinking Ship can be a substitute for Malkavian Dementia, which allow non-malkavian vampire use by the player 2. Alas, Keith Moody or Ingrid can't be bring by the first player at first turn while putting himself at less than 3 pool. Too bad, since Ingrid Russo allow for +5 blood on one of your uncontrolled vampire.