Leave from torpor question

Ok, I have a Carmen who attempts to leave torpor with a recure the homeland (or just the default action would work too for the questions). Someone attempts to block, if Carmen plays superior mirror walk (and is still blocked after that) does the blocking minion get the opportunity to diablerize or does mirror walk ending the action prevent it? Same question if it was Change of Target instead of Mirror Walk, or a gargoyle stepping in with the slave rule. Does any/all of those scenarios avoid the diablerie opportunity?

Mirror Walk's "the action ends" means "the action ends". For that matter, any card that "ends" an action disallows any further happenings (such as playing Action Modifiers, and [6.5.2]'s "instead of combat, the blocking vampire may diablerize") as there is no more action to be part of. A reading of [11] seems to answer your question regarding a slave Gargoyle. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

Correct answer from KevinM.

> KevinM wrote: > A reading of [11] seems to answer your question regarding a slave Gargoyle. > I would like to point out that the part reads: "Also if a member of the specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking minion instead." But there is no combat to be canceled? The slave rule does not prevent the diablerie then? I am confused. COuld you clarify if the slave rule cancels diablerie, or not. It would seem it does not cancel the diablerie.

> Kude wrote: > > > KevinM wrote: > > A reading of [11] seems to answer your question regarding a slave Gargoyle. > > > I would like to point out that the part reads: "Also if a member of the specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking minion instead." > > But there is no combat to be canceled? The slave rule does not prevent the diablerie then? I am confused. COuld you clarify if the slave rule cancels diablerie, or not. It would seem it does not cancel the diablerie. > See correct quote of [6.5.2]: "If this action is blocked, there is no combat (vampires in torpor cannot enter combat). Instead, if the blocker is a vampire, he gets the opportunity to diablerize the acting vampire (see Diablerie, sec. 6.5.5). If he chooses not to, or if he is an ally, then the action simply fails (the acting vampire remains in torpor, and no cost is paid)." If the acting minion would be blocked: - either the acting chooses to use the slave effect - either the blocking minion chooses to diablerize or not. Acting Methuselah has priority of course in that matter. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Alright. Thank you for clearing that out.

My turn to be confused. How can the acting player use an effect to cancel a combat that does not happen? The rules replaces combat with a nom-nom effect and the slave rule does not say "...cancel the combat (if any)..." Suaku Inceptor Asian Continental Championship 興っ www.youtube.com/SuakuOz

Could we get an answer to that last?

LSJ ruled consistently that the slave rule doesn't require a combat, just a succesful block and blocking minion. The rulebook text should probably be clarified to say "(if any)". In a leave torpor block context: [LSJ 20011224] > LSJ wrote: > > Does this mean that there doesn't have to be a combat for a Gargoyle to tap > > and enter combat with the blocking minion, there just has to be a blocking > > minion ( and the appropriate acting minion )? > > Yes. >

And probably after combat this tremere can again try to leave right? as i know 3 action is allowed to repeat:hunt,diablerie and rescue from torpor,but if watch in these 3,i no see reason whu cant repeat leave from torpor.

> beslin wrote: > And probably after combat this tremere can again try to leave right? > Yes. > beslin wrote: > as i know 3 action is allowed to repeat:hunt,diablerie and rescue from torpor,but if watch in these 3,i no see reason whu cant repeat leave from torpor. > The rules don't define which actions you can repeat, they define which actions you can't. They are: 1) Bleed 2) Political action 3) An action provided by a card in play (including the minion themself) - although if there are two copies of a card in play, you can use the separate action from each one (e.g. burn Haven Uncovered, untap, burn a second Haven Uncovered) 4) An action card, by name (so can't play Govern at inferior and superior, for example) 5) A red list rush, via a marked vampire These are all defined in the rulebook - 6.1.1, 6.1.6 (twice), 6.1.7, and 11. ('Leave torpor' is not on this list.) This means that, for example: - you can equip more than once with a card from your hand, if they are two different pieces of equipment - you can equip more than once by taking equipment from minions in play - you can recruit more than once, with different allies - you can employ more than once, with different retainers