Additional strikes?

From rulebook: Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual. Additional strikes are handled by having another choose strike phase and resolve strike phase in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cards. All additional strikes take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat. When are additional strikes gained? 1. Only after initial strike resolution? 2. Or is there new opportunity to gain more strikes later? This is mainly for purposes of cards like Hell for Leather, that give additional strikes that don't count against the one source limit. e.g. could you play blur, play some strike cards, replace to Hell for Leather and then play it to gain one more strike?

Yup, the question came up yesterday during casual game. Do you play additional strikes them like maneuvers/press (alternating between players)? So do you declare all additional stikes at the same time and then start resolving them? Or after resolving the first additional stike, are you able to play a card enabling you to play an additional stike to be played during the "2nd additional stike's" resolution, especially if you didn't play an additional strike for the "1st additional stike" while the opponent did? Example from yesterday: Jimmy Dunn (4 blood), the acting minion is blocked by Alcoan (4 blood and .44 Magnum). Alcoan moves to long with Magnum and Jimmy Throws a Sewer Lid. Jimmy declines additional strikes. Alcoan Blurs taking 2 additional strikes. Jimmy doesn't have any more long range strikes but does have Pursuit and Sidestep (enabling him to play additional strike and thus play Dodge from Sidestep which would mean that he wouldn't go to torpor since he has only 2 blood left after the initial strikes). So can Jimmy, after initially declining to play additional strikes, still play an additional strike when Alcoan declared his additional stikes? (which would be similar to maneuvering/pressing) Or after Alcaen's 1st additional strike is resolved can Jimmy now play Pursuit to be able to play his first additional stike during Alcaen's 2nd aditional strike? Or does Jimmy just have to suck it? Finnish Politics!

strikes are resolved as pairs UDHR18/19/27

I would go for the first option of those three, Lönkkä.

> Lönkka wrote: > So can Jimmy, after initially declining to play additional strikes, still play an additional strike when Alcoan declared his additional stikes? (which would be similar to maneuvering/pressing) > Standard priority rules: if the reacting minion plays something, priority goes back to the acting and the window does not close, so Jimmy can play his Pursuit now.

> Whisker wrote: > From rulebook: > Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual. Additional strikes are handled by having another choose strike phase and resolve strike phase in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cards. All additional strikes take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat. > > When are additional strikes gained? > 1. Only after initial strike resolution? > 2. Or is there new opportunity to gain more strikes later? > > This is mainly for purposes of cards like Hell for Leather, that give additional strikes that don't count against the one source limit. > e.g. could you play blur, play some strike cards, replace to Hell for Leather and then play it to gain one more strike? > 2. You can play cards to gain additional strikes - after any strike resolution - if you don't have unresolved additional strikes - you are limited to one card providing additional strikes (as always, Golden Rule of Cardtext applies. If you have a Quickness, a Blur, a Hell for Leather and an Anarch Jacko, you could get 2 normal add strikes, and 3 add strikes not counting against the limit) What's interesting to notice: pairs of strikes have to be resolved simultaneously, but the additional strikes for these pairs can be gained separately. For instance, if Appolonius is in combat with Jimmy Dunn, and Jimmy plays sup' Blur (gaining 2 add), Appolonius can play some prevention card on the first additional stike, and then play a Blur, to dodge Jimmy's second strike.

> Non-existant user wrote: > > > Lönkka wrote: > > So can Jimmy, after initially declining to play additional strikes, still play an additional strike when Alcoan declared his additional stikes? (which would be similar to maneuvering/pressing) > > > Standard priority rules: if the reacting minion plays something, priority goes back to the acting and the window does not close, so Jimmy can play his Pursuit now. > Correct. Acting Jimmy can still declare gaining an additional strike after Alcoan gains an additional strike.

> Pascal wrote: > > > Whisker wrote: > > From rulebook: > > Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed > > > . > You can play cards to gain additional strikes > - after any strike resolution > I find the rulebook a bit misleading. It should state "after any pair of strikes are completed" instead of "after the first pair of strikes are completed" Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Pascal wrote: > > What's interesting to notice: pairs of strikes have to be resolved simultaneously, but the additional strikes for these pairs can be gained separately. For instance, if Appolonius is in combat with Jimmy Dunn, and Jimmy plays sup' Blur (gaining 2 add), Appolonius can play some prevention card on the first additional stike, and then play a Blur, to dodge Jimmy's second strike. > That's new to me. In this case, if Appolonius used Blur to gain additional strikes, his second additional strike would occur after Jimmy's second additional strike. Jimmy/Appolonius Jimmy (1st Blur) Jimmy (2nd Blur)/Appolonius (1st Blur) Appolonius (2nd Blur) Weird. And Appolonius could also play his Blur after all of Jimmy's additional strikes had resolved.

> AaronC wrote: > That's new to me. > Me too (which isn't really that surprising...). I'm glad glad we asked. Finnish Politics!

> AaronC wrote: > Weird. And Appolonius could also play his Blur after all of Jimmy's additional strikes had resolved. > I agree that it's weird, and I agree that I didn't know that. Dance Wind is impacted by that : the additional effect from the superior is most of the time useless against an opponent who know this rule, since if he wait the resolution of the second dodge to play his additional strike none of thoses will be dodged. I can't think of another card that is significantly affected by that, and in regular cases people have a real interest in striking as soon as possible, so it don't seem too problematic.

Can you please stop using Appolonius in your examples? Someone might read it wrong and believe he is playable

Oh, also, forgot to mention it because it sounded obvious to me, but: If you have an additional strike, you must use it in the next strike declaration phase.

> Non-existant user wrote: > Can you please stop using Appolonius in your examples? Someone might read it wrong and believe he is playable > I don't even know what you're talking about. I used to have an Appolonius superstar deck that outright won at least three games in my local playgroup here in Los Angeles. It never got far in the tournaments I played it in, but it was a very solid casual deck. It's called Bruise and Bleed, man.

just to make it clear? this is legal? CEL Weenie: Punch THA Weenie: Wind Dance CEL Weenie: None THA Weenie: Keeps on Dancing CEL Weenie: *Plays Blur, Blur1: punch THA Weenie: None CEL Weenie: Blur2: punch THA Weenie: None meaning i can play the additional strike after ANY strike resolution? nice

Pascal, are you sure of that? That sounds like rather weird ruling, and indeed as pointed out, makes superior Wind Dance largely useless since the opposing minion can just wait until after your additional strike dodge before playing his additional strikes. It also seems to be against what is written in the rulebook. The relevant part in caps. 6.4.3 section of rulebook under 'Additional Strikes:' Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additionoal strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the FIRST PAIR OF STRIKES are completed.

OTOH, when you can play several additional cards, it feels like each card should be played just before using the strike, not at the end of the first. Strike1, Pursuit, Strike2, Quickness, Strike3 rather than Strike1, Quickness-Pursuit, Strike2, Strike3. Maybe additional strike cards are playable only after resolution of one of YOUR strikes, so you cannot skip a strike. But that would make Lapse cancel the additional strikes too...

It would be more logical that all additional strikes need to be declared at the same time, after the initial strikes are resolved.

I'm surprised by this ruling as well. Also, it seems to go a bit against the strict reading of the rules: > Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. > I've always interpreted this so that additional strikes can only be gained after the inital strikes have been resolved. Emphasis on announced, only and first. If this is an official ruling it should be written down somewhere. It seems new to plenty of people, is all I'm saying. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

I'm trying to find the LSJ reference ruling. I think the logic was : "If the opponent plays Blur, and you only have prevention cards in your hand, but cycling them gives you access to additional strikes, you should be able to gain these additional strikes". If it's unfoundable, I'll make it a clear ruling (or update the rulebook).

> Pascal wrote: > I'm trying to find the LSJ reference ruling. > I think the logic was : "If the opponent plays Blur, and you only have prevention cards in your hand, but cycling them gives you access to additional strikes, you should be able to gain these additional strikes". > If it's unfoundable, I'll make it a clear ruling (or update the rulebook). > So your intention is to make superior Wind Dance completely useless?

it is completely new to me... we have never played it like that. We always resolved additional strikes in PAIRS, as that is only logical thing.

> Pascal wrote: > if Appolonius is in combat with Jimmy Dunn > No, he isn´t. Never "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

This is possibly one of the most startling interpretations of the rules I've seen in a while. I would never have thought the rules would be construed that way. It really does revolutionise how two Celerity decks do combat. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Let's put this one on hold as long as I don't find LSJ's response (and stick to what the rulebook reads: "only after normal strike resolution").

> Kraus wrote: > > > Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. > > > I've always interpreted this so that additional strikes can only be gained after the inital strikes have been resolved. Emphasis on announced, only and first. > The only after the first pair part doesn't mean that additional strikes cannot be gained later in the round, though, since it's possible to use multiple sources of additional strikes. From the rulings list on this site: > Non-existant user wrote: > If you have any pending (additional) strikes, wait until those strikes are resolved before gaining further additional strikes (if you are allowed to use more than one additional-strike-gaining effect in a round). (link) > Relevant other discussions: Hell-for-Leather Jacko and Quickness The ruling that a minion can gain additional strikes later in the round after previously having passed on additional strikes is what's surprising, and, even it's currently a valid reading of the rules, is something I personally feel shouldn't be legal. Based on the reaction in this thread, I'm far from alone in that opinion. -- National Coordinator South Africa

Are you sure it's not supposed to mean that you can play cards that give additional strikes before or after preventing damage. E.g. Both vampires strike for 1 damage. Vamp1 plays blur and then prevent the damage with soak. Vamp2 prevent the damage with sideslip and then play blur for additionals. Or does the "strikes are completed" mean after strike resolution is completed, with soak and everything?

You can't play Blur while you are still in a strike's resolution. This includes damage resolution.

> drnlmza wrote: > The only after the first pair part doesn't mean that additional strikes cannot be gained later in the round, though, since it's possible to use multiple sources of additional strikes. > So what you are saying is that only after the first pair is not the same as only immediatelyafter the first pair? That is not the way I have been interpreting the rules all this time, but I have to admit, it is not a non-valid interpretation. Suaku Inceptor Asian Continental Championship 興っ www.youtube.com/SuakuOz

> Pascal wrote: > Let's put this one on hold as long as I don't find LSJ's response (and stick to what the rulebook reads: "only after normal strike resolution"). > Just to be clear: "only immediately after normal strike resolution"? Suaku Inceptor Asian Continental Championship 興っ www.youtube.com/SuakuOz

Yes.

If you're only allowed to gain additional strikes immediately after normal resolution strike, how does gaining strikes from multiple source work now? Declare all such strikes up front? We seem to be exchanging weakening Wind Dance for weakening Quickness and Hell-for-Leather at cel. -- National Coordinator South Africa

> drnlmza wrote: > If you're only allowed to gain additional strikes immediately after normal resolution strike, how does gaining strikes from multiple source work now? Declare all such strikes up front? > > We seem to be exchanging weakening Wind Dance for weakening Quickness and Hell-for-Leather at cel. > I don't really see how that is weakening Quickness and HfL, thats how additional strikes have always worked, you declare all you are going to take at same time.

> Klaital wrote: > I don't really see how that is weakening Quickness and HfL, thats how additional strikes have always worked, you declare all you are going to take at same time. > They haven't worked that way since late 2000 - see the LSJ ruling (listed under general rulings, Combat in the ruling list) I quoted earlier. -- National Coordinator South Africa

> drnlmza wrote: > They haven't worked that way since late 2000 - see the LSJ ruling (listed under general rulings, Combat in the ruling list) I quoted earlier. > In practice people have assumed that you must gain all of your additional strikes after the very first pair of strikes resolve. That's the way I've always thought that it worked. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > > > drnlmza wrote: > > They haven't worked that way since late 2000 - see the LSJ ruling (listed under general rulings, Combat in the ruling list) I quoted earlier. > > > In practice people have assumed that you must gain all of your additional strikes after the very first pair of strikes resolve. That's the way I've always thought that it worked. > not here it was not... Here we played it like this : Normal strikes. player one : hand strike Player two: hand strike resolve strikes player one : Blur Player two : Blur player one :My first blur additional strike is dodge Player two: My first blur additional strike is hand strike resolve strikes Player one : my second blur strike is hand strike Player two : my second blur strike is pushing the limit Resolve strikes Player one : i have no more additional strikes Player two : i play hell for leather at cel player two: my hell for leather strike is pushing the limit Resolve strikes And i never met players that played it differently, in other playgroups outside my country as well

Here is a summary I wrote to help me understand the rules question. Looking at specific scenarios after the first strike pair is resolved. This is not my way of answering the ruling question. Regardless of what the rules allow, it is my opinion that the last two scenarios ought to be illegal. The following scenarios are OK: A gains an additional strike. B gains an additional strike. Strikes are declared and resolved. A gains an additional strike. B does not gain an additional strike. A's strike is declared and resolved. A gains an additional strike. B gains an additional strike. Strikes are declared and resolved. A gains a bonus additional strike (Blur, Quickness, Jacko, etc.). B does not gain an additional strike. A's strike is declared and resolved. The following scenarios are NOT OK: A gains an additional strike. B does not gain an additional strike. A's strike is declared and resolved. A gains a bonus additional strike. B gains an additional strike. Strikes are declared and resolved. A gains an additional strike. B does not gain an additional strike. A's strike is declared and resolved. A does not gain a bonus additional strike. B gains an additional strike. B's strike is declared and resolved.

I suspect the rules need a minor tweak here. Rule 6.4.3 states "Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed." First, what is "completed?" The previous rules section uses "resolved" - and the language should be consistent. Resolved = prevented, healed (blood burned) or on the way to torpor. Completed = the rules don't state. Second, nowhere in the rules is it stated that additional strikes MUST be used sequentially, only that they are gained and performed (sometime) after the first pair. So with our vs combat described in previous posts, it could actually go like this. Hands for 1 Wind Dance Strikes resolve. Blur. Hands for 1. "The rules don't say I must use my additional here, so no strike" Strike resolve, takes one Hands for 1, Target Vitals "See how smart I am, NOW dodge" Before you say "No way" - read the rule excerpt I pasted above. "announced and performed" without any specification of when those might take place. Even vs can get ugly. Minion 2 waits until Minion 1 burns blood for a couple of strikes, sees that he can torporize Minion 1 and jumps in with his own Blur after Minion 1's 3rd strike. In order to simplify the whole thing, I suggest a couple of minor tweaks. 1) If you gaining additional strikes, you must use them immediately following the gaining the additional strikes. 2) Additional strikes are gained immediately after your current strike resolves. If you didn't strike, you don't have a window to gain additional strikes (this gets by simply deferring additional until Wind Dance gets out of the way). While this might seem like it screws with our current use of the impulse as a timing tool, it doesn't. There are other situations that restrict card play inside combat (e.g., can't play prevention cards with no incoming damage). All that said, I propose the following changes to 6.4.3. I'll break it out into individual sentences to prevent a wall of text, with my proposed changes in italics. Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. Additional strikes (if any) are gained immediately after resolving that minion's strike The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual. Additional strikes are handled by having another set of choose strike phase and resolve strike phases in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cardschoose strikes. All additional strikes within a round of combat take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat. Darby.

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > First, what is "completed?" The previous rules section uses "resolved" - and the language should be consistent. Resolved = prevented, healed (blood burned) or on the way to torpor. Completed = the rules don't state. > "Completed" is plain English, as is "resolved". Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> If you have any pending (additional) strikes, wait until those strikes are resolved before gaining further additional strikes (if you are allowed to use more than one additional-strike-gaining effect in a round). [LSJ 20001206] > Can't find any rules that contradict this scenario. Minion A gain 2 additional strikes using blur. Minion B choose to not gain additional strikes. The two strikes from Blur resolve. Minion B does not strike. Minion A gain 1 additional strike using Hell-for-Leather. Minion B gain 1 additional strike using Pursuit. Strikes resolve. Minion A cannot gain more additional strikes. Minion B gain 1 additional strike using Hell-for-Leather. Strike resolve.

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > 2) Additional strikes are gained immediately after your current strike resolves. If you didn't strike, you don't have a window to gain additional strikes (this gets by simply deferring additional until Wind Dance gets out of the way). > This powers up Lapse at (which arguably could use a boost) and effects like grappling a minion who used a gun to maneuver, which may be more of a problem. -- National Coordinator South Africa

Rulebook 6.4.3 > > Normally, each minion gets only one strike per round. Some cards may allow a minion to get additional strikes during a round of combat. Each pair of strikes (one from each of the minions) is resolved before going on to the next pair. If only one minion has additional strikes, the "pair" will be just his strike. > This indicates that strikes are resolved in pairs. If the acting minion declares an additional strike, and the other minion does not, then the other minion cannot play additional strikes later. There is no good reason to take away the advantage of a minion with more strikes. (Imagine if V:tES was redesigned with the new World of Darkness... NO ADDITIONAL STRIKES. I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one. Someday, I hope you'll join me.) Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.

> direwolf wrote: > (Imagine if V:tES was redesigned with the new World of Darkness... NO ADDITIONAL STRIKES. I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one. Someday, I hope you'll join me.) > www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1463 ?

www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1057 .

> drnlmza wrote: > > > TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > > 2) Additional strikes are gained immediately after your current strike resolves. If you didn't strike, you don't have a window to gain additional strikes (this gets by simply deferring additional until Wind Dance gets out of the way). > > > This powers up Lapse at (which arguably could use a boost) and effects like grappling a minion who used a gun to maneuver, which may be more of a problem. > Thanks for pointing these out. I hadn't considered these cases at all. Personally, I don't see either being too problematic. I haven't even seen Lapse played since Outside the Hourglass was printed. Other cards which prevent strikes through a full round (Rock Cat, Hidden Lurker, Fast Reastion) aren't tearing up the tournament scene, either. Those aren't reasons to buff Lapse, just a couple of observations about use patterns On the Grapple vs maneuvered gun scenario: Kolks running dedicated guns decks rarely burn a card to gain additional strikes when restricted to hand strikes by Grapple. "If I could have Blurred, the 2 damage would have sent Beast with 1 blood to torpor" is a good point though. I'm more comfortable with creating this scenario than having one in which minions can defer additional strike generation.

Regardless of the solution, the rulebook must be changed for the reasons Darby pointed out: > > 6.4.3 wrote: > Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) gained only after the first pair of strikes are completed. The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual. Additional strikes are handled by having another choose strike phase and resolve strike phase in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cards choose strikes. All additional strikes take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat. > The phrase "performed (used)" makes the timing of strike use ambiguous. Without it, the reader correctly infers that strikes are handled immediately in pairs. The phrase "play strike cards" has always been inaccurate. A minion may choose to strike hands without any cards, but only if it has additional strikes. I believe those changes are necessary. There is still an ambiguity created by bonus additional strikes, and LSJ's ruling. I believe there are two methods to resolve the ambiguity: Make further changes to the rulebook to allow additional strikes to be gained after any set of strikes, incorporating LSJ's rulings, but force all strikes to be synchronized. (Darby's suggestion) Repeal LSJ's ruling. Make no further rules changes. (All additional strikes must be gained up front)

I'm in favour of making all additional strikes be gained at the same time. Jacko, HfL, etc are all declared after the first pair of strikes are resolved. Any additional strikes not used because the opposing minion is not ready are wasted. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > I'm in favour of making all additional strikes be gained at the same time. Jacko, HfL, etc are all declared after the first pair of strikes are resolved. Any additional strikes not used because the opposing minion is not ready are wasted. > What if the minion playing the additional strikes is using strike cards instead of simply shooting with a gun? Your suggestion disables a card flow mechanism that a "does not count against the limit" deck probably needs. Granted, this represents a very small fraction of decks, but this whole thread is full of almost cornercase scenarios. We just want to get it right, eh? If just seems easier (and logical) to say "you can't generate additional strikes if you didn't just strike, m'kay?"

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > What if the minion playing the additional strikes is using strike cards instead of simply shooting with a gun? Your suggestion disables a card flow mechanism that a "does not count against the limit" deck probably needs. > > Granted, this represents a very small fraction of decks, but this whole thread is full of almost cornercase scenarios. We just want to get it right, eh? > > If just seems easier (and logical) to say "you can't generate additional strikes if you didn't just strike, m'kay?" > I actually don't mind the problem of "Blessing of the Card Gods" being a problem for the 'many additional strike' cards. Just like the current problems of grapple combat, and the general advice for short-chain combat. The game shouldn't remove all of the effects of chance... Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

If making Wind Dance useless is a problem here, how about rewording Wind Dance like this: [tha] Strike: dodge. [THA] Strike: dodge with an optional additional strike: dodge this round. This would allow Wind Dance user to wait and see if opposing minion declares any additional strikes before declaring the use of his/her second dodge.

It's unclear and I am not even sure it would be enough.

And anyway, why do we need to change anything when the rules work just fine like they are?

> Klaital wrote: > And anyway, why do we need to change anything when the rules work just fine like they are? > ... because the way rules are here and now, Wind Dance sup' is most often the same thing as Wind dance inf'. Granted, wind dance ain't all that hot anyway.

To match the current rules and clarifications, the rulebook should be written this way (or something approaching): Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat. Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only gained after the first pair of strikes are completed has been resolved. The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual. Additional strikes are handled by having another choose strike phase and resolve strike phase in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cards. All additional strikes take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat. Some effects grant additional strikes that do not count against this limit; in that case, any extra source of additional strikes are gained only after the last pair of additional strikes gained by the minion has been resolved. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

How do all of these proposed changes interact with first strike? Traveller Card Game

> ICL wrote: > How do all of these proposed changes interact with first strike? > It doesn't change anything. Strikes with first strike are declared as normal, and resolve before any classic non-first strike in the same pair of strike (but is "beaten" by dodge and s:ce as usual). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > ICL wrote: > > How do all of these proposed changes interact with first strike? > > > It doesn't change anything. Strikes with first strike are declared as normal, and resolve before any classic non-first strike in the same pair of strike (but is "beaten" by dodge and s:ce as usual). > Um, hello? It's called THIRD strike?

> ICL wrote: > How do all of these proposed changes interact with first strike? > The fix for first strike is to remove it from the game. (5 crypt cards are impacted, 16 library cards)

> Adonai wrote: > > > ICL wrote: > > How do all of these proposed changes interact with first strike? > > > The fix for first strike is to remove it from the game. > > (5 crypt cards are impacted, 16 library cards) > 5 are Assamite Cards.