Submission - Sham Trust (CHI bleed reducer)

Name: Sham Trust Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Chimestry [chi] Reduce a bleed against you by 1. [CHI] Only usable when a bleed action against you would be successful. You do not burn more than 1 pool, regardless of the amount of the bleed. Put this card on the acting minion. Any vampire you control may burn this card to deal 2 damage on that minion as a +1 stealth action. Art note: a Ravnos vampire in the foreground is spying from a street corner another vampire entering a office building by night. From the viewer's perspective, the office building front look like a huge illusional section of wall abut a small mini-market with an old man behind the counter. WoD source: Chimestry is used to create illusion that lure vampires away from their real goal. Compelling game needs: Bleed reduction doesn't work because it's too weak and you'll probably better just use bounce which combine defense and offense. I'm trying here to create an equivalent alternative in a discipline that don't have access to bleed defense. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I like the concept. There is also a good synergie between the two level. I don't know enough about ravnos deck to know whether it will work well with existing card pool, but since they have animalism and fortitude, grinding blood on opposing vampire seem possible. Edit : it seem quite strong in conjunction with Touch of pain, or with the setites way to put damage on bleeding vampires, but crypt to play with that seem extremely weak. Of course, Mata Hari can play crocodile temple and that, but it's still pretty weak.

On the CHI level I'd make the card you put on the acting minion unique. Other than that - great idea, I really like it.

@Ankha: You mean Draba, Army of Apparitions and Steadfastness don't cut it for you already? Chimerstry already strikes me as close to the Swiss-Army-Knife of VTES. Decent bleed, good stealth, cost reduction for cards, remove stealth, vote-reactions, strong combat, equipment recycling/theft... Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Chimerstry already strikes me as close to the Swiss-Army-Knife of VTES. Decent bleed, good stealth, cost reduction for cards, remove stealth, vote-reactions, strong combat, equipment recycling/theft... > To be honest, the main thematic of Chimestry is to be way too blood-intensive. Both Draba and Army of Apparition at sup' are good example of cards that are worth their blood cost only on pretty specific cases.

Speaking of blood costs and bleed reduction, I really wish keep it simple was free. it would then fill in a lot of decks nicely. more on topic, I like it, but I think the superior needs to be unique and I was going to say burn when the minion leaves the ready region, but I don't really see how useful it could be even if you torp one of your predators minions, let them hunt, then do it again. I don't think chimestey needs much more help, but this seems good, playable, and not too good.

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > @Ankha: > You mean Draba, Army of Apparitions and Steadfastness don't cut it for you already? > > Chimerstry already strikes me as close to the Swiss-Army-Knife of VTES. Decent bleed > I suppose so if you consider to have decent bleed.

I'm not really fond of the card that, on sup, can both reduce bleed by potentially a lot AND send a vampire to torpor afterwards. If it were made to steal 2 blood instead of dealing damage, I'd be okay with that.

> Kiddo wrote: > I'm not really fond of the card that, on sup, can both reduce bleed by potentially a lot AND send a vampire to torpor afterwards. If it were made to steal 2 blood instead of dealing damage, I'd be okay with that. > Ooh, as a steal effect you could have the superior effect costing one blood.

That card should cost a blood, its way too good for a free card, Chimerstry has very few free cards. Also the superior should have 'a minion can have only one Sham Trust' text added. And also the superior should read 'You still control this card' as otherwise its that persons vampires who could burn it.

> Klaital wrote: > Chimerstry has very few free cards. > It's why it should be free for me. The average cost of chimestry card is already a bit over one blood. If the card is too powerful, it should be made weaker but still free, not the other way around. On another note, changing the superior to burn blood instead of doing damage would already be a significant nerf. I suppose it's damage in order to better punish Villein abuse. "Unique" on the superior effect would make the card limited to once per turn in effect, since all bleed would happen before you have a chance to burn it. "A minion can have only one Sham Trust" would be a more gentle nerf

Well, there are quite a lot of good suggestions there. I switched from "burn blood" to damage before posting the final version because it was too weak to be worth an action. Steal blood would be better than "burn blood" but still weaker than dealing damage which is more a real threat. Limiting it to 1 per minion will force the player to take advantage of it as soon as possible (=before the next big bleed) which is a good thing. Name: Sham Trust Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Chimestry [chi] Reduce a bleed against you by 1. [CHI] Only usable when a bleed action against you would be successful. You do not burn more than 1 pool, regardless of the amount of the bleed. Put this card on the acting minion. You still control this card. Any vampire you control may burn this card to deal 2 damage on that minion as a +1 stealth action. A minion can have only one Sham Trust. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Chimerstry cannot be considered without considering Ravnos. They do have some feared bleed decks, mostly centring around mass bleed. But Fata Morgana is an effective bleed card because it provides +1 stealth and +1 bleed. Regarding blood cost... they have a Path for Ravnos. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > But Fata Morgana is an effective bleed card because it provides +1 stealth and +1 bleed. > As a side note, it's funny because it's mostly the same thing as Bonding with a blood cost, and it's still considered powerful > Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Regarding blood cost... they have a Path for Ravnos. > Well, Chimestry is still significantly more costly than Vissicitude which also have not only a path, but two vampire with blood cost reduction. And the idea that every chimestry card should cost one more blood than needed because a path exist suck.

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Chimerstry cannot be considered without considering Ravnos. They do have some feared bleed decks, mostly centring around mass bleed. > Well yeah, Week of Nightmares, but I really think that the idea of WoN making Chimerstry a good bleed discipline is kinda silly. > But Fata Morgana is an effective bleed card because it provides +1 stealth and +1 bleed. > At the cost of one blood and the +bleed is only at superior. If one passable bleed card is all it takes for a discipline to be a good bleed discipline, then quietus fits the bill, serpentis fits and after that the whole idea kinda loses meaning. I really think that mostly sucks as a bleed discipline.

The main difference between Bonding and Fata Morgana is that Fata is usable as stealth in ANY action, Bonding only in bleed actions.

Fatuus Mastery. Chi users can get Chi cards cheaper than the others. Ravnos already get help from: The Usual Sources (Equipment & Retainers) and have the stealth to get those through. Week of Nightmares. And delivery. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418