I just want to make sure I have the procedure correct when playing Concealed Weapon under Infernal Pursuit.
I play Infernal Pursuit (CEL), draw 2 (to replace IP) and discard 1.
Now I want to Concealed Weapon out a Beretta 9mm. Do I:
1. Play CW, draw 2 and discard 1, then play the Beretta, draw 2 and discard 1?
OR
2. Play CW and the Beretta together/simultaneously, then draw 4 and discard 2?
For added confusion, what if more than one Infernal Pursuit is in play? Say I have two going. Would I:
1a. Play CW, draw 3 and discard 2, then play the Beretta, draw 3 and discard 2?
OR
2a. Play CW and the Beretta together/simultaneously, then draw 6 and discard 4?
Whew! Thanks in advance for any help!
Infernal Pursuit
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity
[cel] Press.
[CEL] For the remainder of the combat, each time you replace a card (including when you draw to replace this card), draw an additional card and discard down to your hand size.
Concealed Weapon
Cardtype: Combat
Equip this minion with a non-unique weapon card from your hand at the beginning of a round. Pay the weapon's equip cost, as normal. The weapon cannot cost more than 2 pool or inflict (with a regular strike) aggravated damage or more than 3 damage.
> js_vtes wrote:
> I just want to make sure I have the procedure correct when playing Concealed Weapon under Infernal Pursuit.
>
> I play Infernal Pursuit (CEL), draw 2 (to replace IP) and discard 1.
>
> Now I want to Concealed Weapon out a Beretta 9mm. Do I:
>
> 1. Play CW, draw 2 and discard 1, then play the Beretta, draw 2 and discard 1?
>
Cards are not played together.
Play one card, wait for DI, replace, then play next card.
@Lasombra:
But what about the long-standing situation of being forced to have both the Concealed Weapon AND the Weapon in-hand before playing the Concealed Weapon?
The weapon must be there before the Concealed Weapon is resolved, therefore meaning that you do not replace the Concealed Weapon or the Weapon itself until the Concealed Weapon delivers the Weapon into play OR the Concealed Weapon is resolved unsuccessfully (i.e. cancelled, failed, etc).
I would have said that (based on the past rulings requiring both cards to be in-hand at the time of play of Concealed Weapon) that you would play Concealed, play the weapon and then finish the resolution of Concealed Weapon by drawing 4 cards and discarding 2.
With more Infernal Pursuits, you just increase the cards drawn by 1 per Infernal Pursuit.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Cards are not played together.
Play one card, wait for DI, replace, then play next card.
Anything else is wrong.
If you have a judge handy, he can certainly verify that you have the weapon before the other players decide to DI or DI2 or not.
If you don't have a judge handy, trust your opponents until they've proved themselves assholes.
> Adonai wrote:
> If you have a judge handy, he can certainly verify that you have the weapon before the other players decide to DI or DI2 or not.
>
> If you don't have a judge handy, trust your opponents until they've proved themselves assholes.
>
And if they're assholes:
1. Play Concealed Weapon.
2. Place your chosen weapon on the table, face down.
3. Wait for DI, replace CW etc.
4. Flip the weapon.
> Suoli wrote:
>
> And if they're assholes:
> 1. Play Concealed Weapon.
> 2. Place your chosen weapon on the table, face down.
> 3. Wait for DI, replace CW etc.
> 4. Flip the weapon.
>
So I am counting:
You draw 1 extra card for the infernal pursuit. Another extra card for the concealed. When no DI has been played you flip the weapon and draw another extra card. Are my calculations correct?
VTES is not for the faint of heart...especially when you don't have a enough blood.
Prince Of Geneva
> Adonai wrote:
> Cards are not played together.
> Play one card, wait for DI, replace, then play next card.
>
How does that relate to the question at hand? The Beretta is not played at all, it is put in play as part of the Concealed Weapon resolution. Besides, non-action or strike cards played are replaced after resolution (cf Complete Rules Reference, Section II), so the Beretta is put in play before replacing the Concealed Weapon. Since there is no such delay for cards that are not played, I guess the Beretta is also replaced before the Concealed Weapon. Finally, Infernal Pursuit does not say "draw 1 more, then discard 1", it says "draw 1 more, then discard down to your hand size".
So with 1 Infernal Pursuit in play, that would give the sequence:
1) Play Concealed Weapon (and announce which weapon you choose).
2) Put the weapon in play.
3) Replace the weapon: draw 2, discard 0.
4) Replace the Concealed Weapon: draw 2, discard 2.
In that case, it is equivalent to replacing simultaneously. Now with 2 Infernal Pursuits:
1) Play Concealed Weapon (and announce which weapon you choose).
2) Put the weapon in play.
3) Replace the weapon: draw 3, discard 1.
4) Replace the Concealed Weapon: draw 3, discard 3.
OK, that is just weird. Maybe we need a ruling that says cards are not replaced during a card's resolution? That would force the Concealed and the weapon to be replaced together.
Adonai is correct.
When playing Concealed Weapon, you must have a legal target (otherwise, you couldn't play it). What this means is that you have a legal target. Not that you put it in play before replacing Concealed Weapon.
Similarly, you don't play the political action listed on a political action card as you play Charming Lobby. Wait for resolution of the card (which, for Concealed Weapon, is rather short, or for the action's resolution - Jack of BOth Sides, Charming Lobby, ..)
@ Boris the Blade: I don't know how "D-Replace" has been ending after "C-Resolve", but it's clearly not the correct place - for instance, you do replace your action cards before the "as announced" window, enabling you to play that Seduction you've just drawn - or that Conditioning.
> Pascal wrote:
> @ Boris the Blade: I don't know how "D-Replace" has been ending after "C-Resolve", but it's clearly not the correct place - for instance, you do replace your action cards before the "as announced" window, enabling you to play that Seduction you've just drawn - or that Conditioning.
>
"C-Resolve" has exceptions for action and strike cards so that example does not seem to break it (although the wording does not clearly state that you move to D right away even if something is delayed in C).
Infernal Pursuit might be the very reason why it was placed in that order: just so you draw the extra card when replacing the Infernal Pursuit. IIRC it is currently the only card that affects how you draw, but one could imagine a modifier that lets you draw from your ash heap until the end of the action, for example.
EDIT:
Cards with "Do not replace ..." clauses also affect how you draw, but resolving before replacing does not really help to time those effects since they still need to resolve earlier than the rest of the card for strike and action cards.
> Suoli wrote:
>
> > Adonai wrote:
> > If you have a judge handy, he can certainly verify that you have the weapon before the other players decide to DI or DI2 or not.
> >
> > If you don't have a judge handy, trust your opponents until they've proved themselves assholes.
> >
> And if they're assholes:
> 1. Play Concealed Weapon.
> 2. Place your chosen weapon on the table, face down.
> 3. Wait for DI, replace CW etc.
> 4. Flip the weapon.
>
No, no, no. That's what THEY should be forced to do if THEY are assholes. Since YOU are not an asshole, you should play properly.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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As a tangent:
I have played one Infernal Pursuit. After I play the Concealed Weapon and I replace two cards. Can I discard the equipment I chose for my Concealed Weapon?
If yes, can I discard the specific card I chose and avoid playing another, say, .44 Magnum from my hand. This card would share the same name as the card I chose for my concealed, but not be the same exact card. Obviously this would be same question as: do I chose a specific card or do I chose a card name to Conceal?
If yes to the first question, would this mirror the ruling on fizzled actions that I should pay the cost even when the effect fails. Would I pay the pool for the weapon even if the Concealed Weapon fails to play a weapon?
Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro
[quote="Xaddam" post=39635do I chose a specific card or do I chose a card name to Conceal?[/quote]
I had a response recently explaining it's the card name that count, not the individual card.
> Xaddam wrote:
> As a tangent:
>
> I have played one Infernal Pursuit. After I play the Concealed Weapon and I replace two cards. Can I discard the equipment I chose for my Concealed Weapon?
>
Yes. groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/X8Uu7Sk56P4/twUvR4ZnBBkJ
> Xaddam wrote:
> If yes, can I discard the specific card I chose and avoid playing another, say, .44 Magnum from my hand.
>
No, you have to fulfill the effect (eg. playing a .44 Magnum) if able.
> Xaddam wrote:
> This card would share the same name as the card I chose for my concealed, but not be the same exact card.
>
It doesn't matter. Same link as above.
> Xaddam wrote:
> Obviously this would be same question as: do I chose a specific card or do I chose a card name to Conceal?
>
By name. Same link as above.
> Xaddam wrote:
> If yes to the first question, would this mirror the ruling on fizzled actions that I should pay the cost even when the effect fails. Would I pay the pool for the weapon even if the Concealed Weapon fails to play a weapon?
>
No. You pay the cost of the "Concealed Weapon" card (which is 0 most of the time, but you may consider Chiram's Hold for inscreasing the cost of that card). Then the card fails to find the .44 Magnum, therefore you don't equip it and you don't pay for it.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director