Dabbler Questions.

Dabbler Type: Master Master: archetype. Trifle. Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archetype. Question 1. Does the present tense of "uses 3 or more disciplines" imply that Dabbler cannot be triggered off playing a Monkey Wrench (assume a Keystone Kine bleed that previously satisfied 3 disciplines)? I could argue both ways from the language.....but "uses....Disciplines to play.....during an action" seems to imply that the card used open a window for Dabbler MUST be discipline-based. Otherwise it would be "plays a card and has used 3 disciplines during the action" While it seems a purely theoretical question, there is a practical and tactically relevant application. Either effect can occur even if the action is blocked, so it would be optimal to choose the blood gain option when a successful block might leave your minion empty. Question 2. Does the parenthetical text seems to apply to both functions - meaning the blood gain or the untap - occur after resolution? Again, I could make an argument either way, both from grammatical intpretation and analogous card functions. The practical application of that question.....if the card were interpreted as (gain a blood) or (burn a blood to untap after resolution), then an extra blood to power Monkey Wrench would be available before a Keystone bleed resolves. Question 3. Does the payment for the untap occur when the effect is triggered, or when the untap occurs? Based on other multi-action card functions, it seems like payment and untap should both be deferred. Thanks.

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > Dabbler > Type: Master > Master: archetype. Trifle. > Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archetype. > > Question 1. Does the present tense of "uses 3 or more disciplines" imply that Dabbler cannot be triggered off playing a Monkey Wrench (assume a Keystone Kine bleed that previously satisfied 3 disciplines)? > I can't see the link between Dabbler, the present tense and Monkey Wrench. Do you mean pay the cost of Monkey Wrench with the blood gained with Dabbler? Anyway, blood is gained after the actions is resolved by cardtext. > TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > I could argue both ways from the language.....but "uses....Disciplines to play.....during an action" seems to imply that the card used open a window for Dabbler MUST be discipline-based. Otherwise it would be "plays a card and has used 3 disciplines during the action" > Once again, there is no "window" or such. The vampire uses 3 disciplines during an action => you can activate Dabbler. > TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > Question 2. Does the parenthetical text seems to apply to both functions - meaning the blood gain or the untap - occur after resolution? > Sure. Gaining blood or untapping are at the same level. > TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > Question 3. Does the payment for the untap occur when the effect is triggered, or when the untap occurs? Based on other multi-action card functions, it seems like payment and untap should both be deferred. > "Burn 1 blood to untap" is an effect granted by Dabbler, and this effects resolves "after the action is resolved". So you pay and untap at that time. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

In my attempt to be brief, it appears I didn't communicate the question properly. I play Keystone. I can dabble. I can not dabble if I choose. If I don't...... I play Lost in Crowds. I have another opportunity to dabble, because I played a card and have met the requirement to dabble (again). If I don't dabble at that time..... I play Moonkey Wrench. Have I met the requirement a third time? I played a card, yes, but THAT card didn't require a discipline. Hence the tense confusion of "uses" which implies now and "during" which implies a historical memory.

I'm pretty sure you don't choose (or gain) anything for Dabbler until after the action is resolved.

I play Fleetness @ and when it wasn't blocked, I play Iron Glare @ . Once the action finally resolves (at any point after I have played cards requiring three different disciplines) I can get 1 blood or burn 1 to untap. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote: > In my attempt to be brief, it appears I didn't communicate the question properly. > > I play Keystone. I can dabble. I can not dabble if I choose. If I don't...... > > I play Lost in Crowds. I have another opportunity to dabble, because I played a card and have met the requirement to dabble (again). If I don't dabble at that time..... > > I play Moonkey Wrench. Have I met the requirement a third time? I played a card, yes, but THAT card didn't require a discipline. Hence the tense confusion of "uses" which implies now and "during" which implies a historical memory. > You can dabble "during an action" during which "this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards", but only "Once each turn". It doesn't require (or create) a window each time you play a card. It just checks a valid condition during the action. I understand now why the present tense "when this vampire uses" puzzles you, but there's nothing wrong (it doesn't indicate that you must you the Dabble at the exact moment the 3 disciplines have been used). If a vampire bleeds using a Presence card, he "uses" presence during the action. "Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archetype." Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

The parentheses on Dabbler apply to both options - gaining blood and untapping. Dabbler, for instance, won't trigger twice in an action (Madman's Quill + Lost in Crowds + Random Patterns + Elder Impersonation , for instance)

> Ankha wrote: > I understand now why the present tense "when this vampire uses" puzzles you, but there's nothing wrong (it doesn't indicate that you must you the Dabble at the exact moment the 3 disciplines have been used). > Grammatically at least, that is wrong. As it is is written, the "during" part complements the "when" part so the main timing is the "when" and Darby is right, it is a triggered effect. You are probably right on the intended effect, but that is not what is written on the card. "Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action" is vastly different from "Once each turn, during an action when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards" and from "Once each turn, during an action, when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards" (which would be ambiguous). But anyway, the real timing is neither "when" nor "during", it is the (after the action is resolved) lost in the parentheses. If the card was properly written, that is what should start the sentence. Suggested change: Once each turn, after resolving an action during which this vampire has used 3 or more Disciplines to play cards, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap.