I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.
What do you all think?
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
Easily? Not so sure about that. By the time you bring out your no-bounce, no-freak drive 11-cap loser you could easily be 2/3 of your way to dead. Now you want to call a vote to not gain pool, but instead get a helicopter (assuming you get the card, don't get blocked, can pass it, not DI'd, DT'd, Confusion of the Eyed, etc)? No thanks, I want fortitude out of the box.
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> Easily? Not so sure about that. By the time you bring out your no-bounce, no-freak drive 11-cap loser you could easily be 2/3 of your way to dead. Now you want to call a vote to not gain pool, but instead get a helicopter (assuming you get the card, don't get blocked, can pass it, not DI'd, DT'd, Confusion of the Eyed, etc)? No thanks, I want fortitude out of the box.
>
Well play one of those big caps who has fortitude then, there is plenty.
NO. But I´m kind of positive to something like this:
Vitae Surge
Action modifier
Cost: 2 blood
Requires a vampire of capacity 8 or more.
Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving the action). This vampire untaps.
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
I think josef has drawbacks but some things can be done with him. 4 votes along with +1 stealth is not bad. And Damnans is right about being able to play lost in translation.
There are others, like Hukros, who seem to be missing something that makes them more playable. I don't know if fortitude is the answer however. I say this because I think of vamps like Angus, the Unruled who has votes and stealth but I rarely ever see played.
Just my first thoughts about this.
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.
>
After the release of Villein, I think big cap decks of all sorts are quite playable in a competitive environment. In the psst 1-2 years fatty decks are rampant in all sort of tournaments.
The example of Josef von Bauren for the "weakness" of fatties is ill chosen. There will always be vampires with better or worse discipline spreads or special abilities. A very good counter example is The Unnamed, he doesn't have AUS, dom or for, yet he is in the TWDA multiple times (7). Even Josef is in 5 of them.
Lost in Translation is something, but I don't think it is efficient enough to base your bleed defense around when playing weak vampires. I think one big thing that sets a vampire like Angus apart from Hukros is the usefulness of his title. Second Tradition provides a very reasonable chance of blocking, generally a good way to stay alive.
Maybe I'm wrong about Lost in Translation. Most of the time I see a full-price dunce like Josef Von Bauren pop up though, I see the player who brings him out die shortly afterwards.
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.
>
> What do you all think?
>
Play Villein, Lilith's Blessing, and fetch that discipline you're looking for.
Otherwise, I don't think Shalmath or Nakthoreb require any of those to be playable.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.
>
> What do you all think?
>
First, don't focus too much on bounce. Bounce is a defensive abilitie, a good one, but only one. More diversity is extremely good.
Second, inferior fortitude added automatically is the worst idea ever, a way to say "hello, you must play " which is a Very Bad Idea (TM). Also, Shalmath don't need
Then again, there is a bit of truth in that bigcap without strong defensive capability (being prince, magaji, bounce, +1 intercept, ...) tend to be very weak compared to other.
By the way, Dark Mirror of the Mind was added for the very purpose of making thoses bigcaps useful. And somes decks do use it to great effect. Enkil Cog is another one, which tend to advantage thoses with defensive untap.
Effectively, to make thoses more efficient, you would need either :
* a new rule, like "cap 9+ don't tap the first time they block each turn", or something to that extent, which mean each and everyone of them can defend you effectively (or, simply "each vampire cap 8+ bleed for 2 base ; each cap 11 bleed for 3 base" so that their action are decisive quickly)
* add card reserved to cap 9+ that give either good enough multiacting (freak-drive like), much more powerful action (say, a direct sent to torpor action, an "enter combat, then enter combat with another vampire", a way to bloat for 3+, or any other example of action much more powerful than the usual), or strong defense (like No Secret or 2nd trad that give untap and intercept in the same card, or a -2 bleed for every vampire for one turn, or other possibility that may exist)
If card for 9+ are introduced, it would be best to match them to discipline and not make them generic, to avoid uniformization ; but disciplineless card would be much much more easier to balance.
As a last note, it's not cap 10+ that worrie me, but cap 5-7, since the hype is more about using 1-2 cap 8+ than 2-3 cap 5-7
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.
>
> What do you all think?
>
Maybe you would prefer them to have the inherent ability to untap once a turn by paying 1 blood? I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with your hypothesis, but if I did, I would say that large caps should be improved by giving them an inherent multi-acting ability, rather than giving them access to a particular basic discipline, one of whose cards allows multi-acting on a successful action.
If we agree that 10- and 11-caps get too few actions for their cost in pool and transfers, then I would say the inherent ability should be the equivalent of a superior Freak Drive, meaning that the vampire could burn 1 blood to untap even if the first action was unsuccessful.
Personally, I tend to agree with those posters who have said that
1. Josef von Bauren just happens to be bad for his capacity, just as there are bad vampires at any capacity. Josef's capacity is a significant limitation for Josef in particular. +1 stealth is only useful while acting, and Josef's capacity limits the number of his actions. The bleed actions of the "normal" IC members are worth three basic vampire actions, but his bleed amount is only worth two.
2. the presence of Villein (and even *gasp* unnerfed Minion Tap) increases the possibility of using large cap vampires safely. Of course, Villein does not actually replace actions, although it perhaps replaces blocks since you can use the pool to absorb bleeds.
Is the issue that you like the vampire and would like to be able to use it effectively? Since he has , a wall deck may be the way to go, and unfortunately, I think it is the only way with him and some other large caps. If you can't multi-act, you can multi-block, which in this game is very close to the same thing.
Of course, I realize that the VTES Bible says "Thou shalt Villein thy 11-cap to 1 blood; or to 0 blood thus begetting the Blessing of Lillith or the Blood of the Giant", but sometimes that blood can be used effectively for multi-blocking, too. It's also sometimes okay to only get one 10- or 11-cap out and then surround him with smaller-cap helpers instead of influencing the typical four 11-caps plus Nana Buruku. Again, it's hard to imagine such a thing, but it's been known to work.
> AaronC wrote:
> Is the issue that you like the vampire and would like to be able to use it effectively? Since he has , a wall deck may be the way to go, and unfortunately, I think it is the only way with him and some other large caps. If you can't multi-act, you can multi-block, which in this game is very close to the same thing.
>
Great point. Apparently poor discipline spreads force people to innovate if they want to use a particular vampire, which is good for the game. I don't want to be obliged to put Freak Drive into every single deck that features a high cap vampire.
Well, you can do Enkil Cog shenanigan with Von Bauren, since he can play Sense the Savage way and you can untap him with, say, Metro Underground. And he have to make thoses bleed count, in addition to be successful with stealth.
> DeathInABottle wrote:
> Apparently poor discipline spreads force people to innovate if they want to use a particular vampire, which is good for the game. I don't want to be obliged to put Freak Drive into every single deck that features a high cap vampire.
>
As it stands, I have never even tried to use Van Bauren. With his sucktastic special (You may use a discard phase action to discard a card at random from your predator or prey's hand) and bad discipline spread, I am not sure I ever will (except as a Spell of Life mummy, I suppose). He's just not good enough.
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> As it stands, I have never even tried to use Van Bauren. With his sucktastic special (You may use a discard phase action to discard a card at random from your predator or prey's hand) and bad discipline spread, I am not sure I ever will (except as a Spell of Life mummy, I suppose). He's just not good enough.
>
Let's agree that his discipline spread is horrible (even of one may argue that they are way worse offender, like Elimelech which sorely need or even simply ).
Do it mean he should be playable simply because he is 11-cap ?
If you agree that bad 11-cap can exist, the question is whether "reasonable" 10-cap and 11-cap need help. I am not sure of that ; after all, Cailean is pretty useable, as are a lot of high cap princes.
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
>
> > DeathInABottle wrote:
> > Apparently poor discipline spreads force people to innovate if they want to use a particular vampire, which is good for the game. I don't want to be obliged to put Freak Drive into every single deck that features a high cap vampire.
> >
> As it stands, I have never even tried to use Van Bauren. With his sucktastic special (You may use a discard phase action to discard a card at random from your predator or prey's hand) and bad discipline spread, I am not sure I ever will (except as a Spell of Life mummy, I suppose). He's just not good enough.
>
Fair enough, and in this case, I agree with you: Van Bauren's terrible, and there's nothing in his discipline spread or special that makes him worth playing. (Adding DEM to a clan that already has OBF doesn't make for an interesting vampire. The generic +1 bleed/+1 stealth isn't enticing either.) He's just badly designed. But in other cases an interesting special + an unconventional discipline spread should be able to entice me to build a deck around a vampire who otherwise can't multi-act or bounce (Adana, Cybele, Yong-Sun, etc). It's an interesting challenge.
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> As it stands, I have never even tried to use Van Bauren. With his sucktastic special (You may use a discard phase action to discard a card at random from your predator or prey's hand) and bad discipline spread, I am not sure I ever will (except as a Spell of Life mummy, I suppose). He's just not good enough.
>
At one time or another, I've had every 11 cap in the game in play. I'm fairly sure that can't be said for every other capacity.
That there is a problem with high caps that aren't worth the cost is something I can agree with. But, that's also a problem with non-high caps. Vampires are just not balanced. A lot of that has to do with disciplines - whether a vampire has Dominate or not, for instance. Because of diminishing returns with additional disciplines, high caps are often unbalanced due to other features, like titles that aren't remotely balanced or special abilities that get increasingly unusual.
Singling out Josef seems odd, just as many other arguments based on a single example are problematic. But, the greater issue with blanket increases in power is that they affect things that shouldn't be powered up. This is a key issue when designing cards, by the way. Intentions might be good in powering up underplayed cards or strategies, but unintentional consequences lead to powering up better cards and strategies to where nothing was gained in terms of adding value to what was intended. Similarly, hosers run into this problem all of the time going the other way - try to hose something annoying and end up hitting a bunch of stuff that doesn't deserve being hosed.
One way to power up the weak without benefiting the strong is to give the weak something all of the strong already have. Not that all of the strong necessarily have the same abilities, so it's not that straightforward, nevermind that if everybody can do the same things, the variety in the game is lessened.
Traveller Card Game
> Ohlmann wrote:
> If you agree that bad 11-cap can exist, the question is whether "reasonable" 10-cap and 11-cap need help. I am not sure of that ; after all, Cailean is pretty useable, as are a lot of high cap princes.
>
Cailean has dom, so he doesn't fit the criteria. Here's the list of those who do (15):
Aziz, Dammar of Istanbul
Cybele*
Gracetius
Hukros
Jamal
Nakhthorheb*
Samantha
Shalmath*
unnamed, The
Yong-Sun, Harmonist
Adana de Sforza
Eze, The Demon Prince*
Harrod
Josef von Bauren
Sutekh, The Dark God
I put an asterisk next to the four I believe don't deserve the bump (three have built-in untaps, one has an extra MPA and can untap via Truth of a Thousand Lies). That leaves 11 vampires out of 144 10+ caps, around 7.6%. Many would argue that The Unnamed doesn't need any bump (I disagree), which would leave ~7% of vampires in that wretched category.
Can we write them off? Well, there are plenty of bad cards (vampires and library cards) and that has been the practice. It is really hard to come back and fix some designer's shitty work later. Villein has helped. Can Lost in Translation make up the difference? I suppose it will take some playtesting to find out.
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
I aghree with ICL in that 11-cap are not that bad. Inner circle in particular, since 4 votes and 3 bleed is alway formidable. Sabbat 10-cap are the main pool of extremely unplayable vampires (Bela Kardoza and Hukros, for example)
> DeathInABottle wrote:
> Fair enough, and in this case, I agree with you: Van Bauren's terrible, and there's nothing in his discipline spread or special that makes him worth playing. (Adding DEM to a clan that already has OBF doesn't make for an interesting vampire. The generic +1 bleed/+1 stealth isn't enticing either.) He's just badly designed.
>
He have a very interesting discipline loadout, in that he is a good enough blocker (animalism and being pretty good at combat), a good enough voter (note that he can play Animalism Magnetism for vote push, have his vote at +2 stealth without card, and have 4 vote), and a good enough stealth bleeder (Kindred spirit for 3 with +1 stealth is not shabby).
But he is truly master of none : no 2nd trad, no govern nor permanent 3 bleed, no voter cap. If anything, he show to which extend some staples card overshadow everything else.
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> I put an asterisk next to the four I believe don't deserve the bump (three have built-in untaps, one has an extra MPA and can untap via Truth of a Thousand Lies). That leaves 11 vampires out of 144 10+ caps, around 7.6%. Many would argue that The Unnamed doesn't need any bump (I disagree), which would leave ~7% of vampires in that wretched category.
>
Your list is funny, because the Unnamed and Adana have shown several time that they are more than strong enough - if anything, I see more potential in Adana than Raphael or Haaderstadt. There is deck around the Unamed that win tournaments ; can you say the same for Raphael, which used as a support vampire for Girls decks ? Or Elimelech, which about never played despite having the 3 keys disciplines in your analysis ?
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> Can we write them off? Well, there are plenty of bad cards (vampires and library cards) and that has been the practice. It is really hard to come back and fix some designer's shitty work later. Villein has helped. Can Lost in Translation make up the difference? I suppose it will take some playtesting to find out.
>
Well, I see no particular reason to not write them off, as are a lot of vampires and other cards. The only reason to try to help them in particular is that some have very interestings special or loadout (Hukros for example)
Edit : to give more number, I was looked throught TWDA deck for some 11 caps, and I have counted thoses were the vampire were at least in x2 and was not just some occasional support (like a Lutz Deck with 2 Adana because she share )
Adana : 6 decks (very often as co-star)
The Unnamed : 8 decks
Elimelech, : 3 decks
Harderstadts, : 3 decks
Quite frankly, I think your criteria are way off and way too focused on way too narrow abilities.
Ok, I'm a fan of 11 caps and used to have similar veiws on their playability. as of right now, I think hazimel harrod and sutek are the worst. hazimel because every 11 in his grouping with fortitude is better (enky hardestadt saulot fakir) the others because they just aren't good at all. van b is bad but not the worst. if you play 11 caps, your decks probably built around then, the key is making the deck work. even sutek is in the twda. I'd love some 11 cap only cards, but g 4-5 11 caps are great, then the ones without fortitude, which I always tryto play anyway.
I think multi act or solid defense for 10+ would be cool, but I don't see any dire need for it.
> ReverendRevolver wrote:
> I'd love some 11 cap only cards, but g 4-5 11 caps are great, then the ones without fortitude, which I always tryto play anyway.
>
Side effect : Camarilla is widely advantaged, with its 13 11-cap, which all have 4 votes and tend to almost alway be at least playable (most often, their trouble is that they are roughly equivalent card for 2-3 less pool).
Compare to sabbat (3 11-cap, very different from each other, only one of them having vote), laibon (2 11 cap on the same clan), and independant (7 totals, but on average a bit underwhelming - they have only 2 votes and +1 bleed for most of them, without special not being significantly better)
10+ is certainly more balanced, even if Princes tend to be worth a lot more on average.
My main concern is that, as Girl will find deck have shown, some 10+ cap are already extremely strong, and you can have multiples 11 cap in play in non-joke decks. It may be very hard not to make thoses strong one even more dominant with 10+ cards.
> brandonsantacruz wrote:
> I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps. What do you all think?
>
I've been saying since the game was printed that Freak Drive is overpowered and should be changed and then there should be a rule inserted into the rulebook that says something like "during your minion phase, an 8-cap or above may burn 1 blood to untap."
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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> Klaital wrote:
> Personally I think Augustus Giovanni is the worst 11-cap. Because you can pretty much do anything he can do with a 7 cap Giovanni already.
>
He works better when using Obedience...
Finnish Politics!
Instead of many more actions for big caps (and there are a LOT who take quite a LOT of actions), why not include more large-cap vampires with effects like Atonement (i.e. don't tap to block younger vampires)?
I would hate to see more effects like Sha Ennu's unblockable text. Unblockable text is basically interaction-destroying.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
The big deal here is to make big vampires worth to pay, not to implement special rules. Addional set of cards for big vampires, like Enkil Cog will be wellcomed, but the main issue remains the same there are Über-vampires like Dmitra (who is responsible to make this vampire !!!!.... and they modified Caitlin, because they thought 5 was not fair to pay for XDXD) and there plenty of Rubbish-Vampires( Luna Giovanni, Bella Kardoza...). Don´t really know why bother to print such vampires.
I liked the idea I saw about corrected versions of crypt 1 vampires, which undoubtly could be applied to the full set of crypts, particulary looking at big vampires.
I see little reason of making big caps even better than thay currently are.
There are plenty of tournament winning big caps decks around recently.
Like containing only 10+ or 11 -caps.
The fact that I can't realy play such decks doesn't necessitate their further improvement.
Finnish Politics!
> Dr.Mafrune wrote:
> The big deal here is to make big vampires worth to pay
>
Most of them are. The discussion is for the forgotten one, those who are weakish like, say, Elimelech, Nahir, or Hukros.
Letting them in relative obscurity seem better to me than make Alexandra even better.
Hukros is the biggest ---piiiiii---- ever made, but Elimelech is a really capable vampire. He is in various tournament winning decks as the crypt boss. I made a list mixing Dabby Keeney Cholisterase Inhibition( excuses if I wrote it wrong) concept with seraph´s stuff, and it does not look "casual play".
> Dr.Mafrune wrote:
> Hukros is the biggest ---piiiiii---- ever made, but Elimelech is a really capable vampire. He is in various tournament winning decks as the crypt boss.
>
Still, he is one of the least used 11 cap, and the TWDA seem to agree he is pretty bad, with 4 TWDA and less than a page of decks.
The problem is not that he is bad once on table, it's that he is underwhelming for 11 pools and transfert, like most "bad" 10-11 cap. He also suffer from severe discordance between his bleedy discipline and his combaty special.
That thoses kind of vampire that may or may not need to be helped. Nobody want to see more Alexandra or Lutz. And my position is that thoses baddish vampire should not be helped because bad vampires exist at every capacity.
Having played Lost in Translation plenty its blood cost is unnecessary. Especially since its effect is essentially a basic level Redirection. Easier to graft dom masters or dom weenies and just run Deflection, IME. And the icing on the oh-so-disappointing cake was this clause: "Only one Lost in Translation may be played each action." A waste of an opportunity, which is still fixable now with easy errata, but unlikely due to our rather calcified community.
Further, that Atonement observation is spot on. Big caps don't have an equivalent -- unless you sorta believe No Secrets is equivalent even though Magaji (Overseer) only needs 4+. I don't know if adding more intercept walls is good for this game right now, I'll hazard a guess of no at the moment, but it does point to a bang-for-the-buck discrepancy. I think there's better design directions at the moment.
Often big caps are sold with extra disciplines as an advantage, but most decks don't run but 2-3 disciplines. So large discipline spread is often just a vampire's flexibility for crypt choice, not its in play impact. If you can get your crypt choice for cheaper there's little cost incentive not to. A goal would be to increase big cap incentives outside of their specific titles/specials.
Bigger capacity seem to need more bang-for-the-buck as a trait. I think "requires older" clauses are a step in the right direction. Saying that, more big cap disciplineless cards would be a nice design goal, going a long way to raise bigger capacity as an incentive, like:
Familiar with the Art of War
Only usable during a bleed. Requires a vampire with capacity above 8.
+2 bleed when attempting to bleed your prey. After playing this card, you cannot play another action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action.
Reduce a bleed against you by 3.
Gives responsible bleed against bounce and switches for bleed defense.
I'm going to take a different tack here.
1x 11 cap bleeds for 1-4 in one action without cards. You risk all your eggs in one basket.
11x 1 caps bleed for 1 in 11 actions without cards. You don't care if you lose 1, it would only be a 9% drop in offense.
The problem might not be big caps per se. Yet still they win - usually because their card text specials (which are innately and persistently available when you influence the minion) are powerful enough to overcome this limitation.
Clearly, not all card texts are created equal. Welcome to a game that is intended to be diverse - but cannot be at the highest levels of competition because only a handful of specials surpass the requisite criteria for power.
> Azel wrote:
> Often big caps are sold with extra disciplines as an advantage, but most decks don't run but 2-3 disciplines. So large discipline spread is often just a vampire's flexibility for crypt choice, not its in play impact. If you can get your crypt choice for cheaper there's little cost incentive not to.
>
Little incentive but not none. If the discipline spread is interesting enough, you can entice someone to play the vampire. Saulot and Konrad Fleischer are good examples: I've built decks around both of them before because their discipline spreads are unique (and, in Konrad's case, because his special makes the Dawn Op/Weather Control combo devastating), with reasonable success. Interesting discipline spreads on high caps aren't usually worth it instead of raw competitiveness, but they can encourage innovation.
> DeathInABottle wrote:
>
> > Azel wrote:
> > Often big caps are sold with extra disciplines as an advantage, but most decks don't run but 2-3 disciplines. So large discipline spread is often just a vampire's flexibility for crypt choice, not its in play impact. If you can get your crypt choice for cheaper there's little cost incentive not to.
> >
> Little incentive but not none. If the discipline spread is interesting enough, you can entice someone to play the vampire. Saulot and Konrad Fleischer are good examples: I've built decks around both of them before because their discipline spreads are unique (and, in Konrad's case, because his special makes the Dawn Op/Weather Control combo devastating), with reasonable success. Interesting discipline spreads on high caps aren't usually worth it instead of raw competitiveness, but they can encourage innovation.
>
I agree that several vamps are overlooked such as konrad , bindusara , and myfavorite, gotsdam. plenty of 8+ caps are great just underplayed. my only real complaint is 11 caps that are barely playable and ten caps that are simply unplayable because you get squat for investing 1/3 of your pool into them. why play a hukros combo deck when you can have nergal get concordance, clan impersonate malk , and force of will bleed thru madness network with block denial every turn. even bad/joke decks arebetter without junk vampires.
I think atonement for 11 caps would help without breaking nergal , Mary Anne, etc.
> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:
> Yet still they win - usually because their card text specials
>
It depends on what you call "special". Arika's special is good but it is only icing on the cake. The Order 66 ( inner circles) only plays on the vampires' disciplines too, and of course the title and +2 bleed. While a good discipline spread is probably not enough to make big caps worthwhile, one does not have to reinvent the wheel every time either: some well-chosen ++ are enough.
> Non-existant user wrote:
> and of course the title and +2 bleed.
>
This can't be stressed enough. Part of why Hukros is crap while having a powerful ability is that he bleed for 1 and have 0 votes, while still costing 10 pool. It's also why Elimelech, Ur-Shulgi, or even Van Bauren are comparatively weak.
> Ohlmann wrote:
>
> > Non-existant user wrote:
> > and of course the title and +2 bleed.
> >
> This can't be stressed enough. Part of why Hukros is crap while having a powerful ability is that he bleed for 1 and have 0 votes, while still costing 10 pool. It's also why Elimelech, Ur-Shulgi, or even Van Bauren are comparatively weak.
>
It's almost like larger capacity necessitates trait advantages to go with it. In a way, such advantages are expected. Perhaps exploring larger capacity as a design space is the solution. The challenge would be to avoid new power cards for already powerful big caps. Thus democratizing already extant strong card effects sounds like a fruitful design middleground, like Lost in Translation attempted to do but didn't do so well.
> TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:
> Clearly, not all card texts are created equal. Welcome to a game that is intended to be diverse - but cannot be at the highest levels of competition because only a handful of specials surpass the requisite criteria for power.
>
Ok, I'll bite: Which specials are you speaking of?
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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